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  1. #126
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    On a different note, all of the anti-socialist peeps here... Nathan89, rmt, etc, you're all returning your checks to the IRS right?
    <crickets>

  2. #127
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    (Assuming financial stress does not vitiate social distancing. If people get too hungry, too poor, or get thrown out of their houses, social distancing will fail and we atart all over again.)
    You think we'd start all over again? I think at that point, they just let it burn its way through the population. The collateral damage (bodies) won't equate to the damage of bringing our country into the third world, as ugly as it sounds.

  3. #128
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    Bonanza for Rich Real Estate Investors,

    Tucked Into Stimulus Package


    A small change to tax policy could hand $170 billion in tax savings to real estate tycoons.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/26/business/coronavirus-real-estate-investors-stimulus.html

  4. #129
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    You think we'd start all over again? I think at that point, they just let it burn its way through the population. The collateral damage (bodies) won't equate to the damage of bringing our country into the third world, as ugly as it sounds.
    You're exactly wrong. The studies on this have been done. Unchecked pandemics are more damaging to the economy than containment and mitigation.

  5. #130
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    You're exactly wrong. The studies on this have been done. Unchecked pandemics are more damaging to the economy than containment and mitigation.

    We've never done anything like this in the states and nobody is like us so far as being the center of the universe. Can you link me to some studies you're familiar with?

  6. #131
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    We've never done anything like this in the states and nobody is like us so far as being the center of the universe. Can you link me to some studies you're familiar with?
    Sure

    https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers....act_id=3561560

  7. #132
    notthewordsofonewhokneels Thread's Avatar
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    We've never done anything like this in the states and nobody is like us so far as being the center of the universe. Can you link me to some studies you're familiar with?
    Chooch & Winester sittin' in a tree, k.i.s.s.i.n.g., first comes love then comes marriage then comes little Chooch in a baby carriage.

  8. #133
    adolis is altuve’s father monosylab1k's Avatar
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  9. #134
    adolis is altuve’s father monosylab1k's Avatar
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    On a different note, all of the anti-socialist peeps here... Nathan89, rmt, etc, you're all returning your checks to the IRS right?

  10. #135
    4-25-20 Will Hunting's Avatar
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    On a different note, all of the anti-socialist peeps here... Nathan89, rmt, etc, you're all returning your checks to the IRS right?
    I think it was DAF86 who said this but remarkable how in a time of crisis like this Republicans are ready to trade their supply-side free market for some old fashioned Keynesian stimulus.

  11. #136
    notthewordsofonewhokneels Thread's Avatar
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    I think it was DAF86 who said this but remarkable how in a time of crisis like this Republicans are ready to trade their supply-side free market for some old fashioned Keynesian stimulus.
    How can one contrast, Will, we ain't ever had a crisis like this.

    Though we have been walking around fancy free since the century turned while over a million of us died from Regular Flu. s, bells, we didn't even know it was a crisis.

  12. #137
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    How can one contrast, Will, we ain't ever had a crisis like this.
    what do you mean? we get the flu every year!

  13. #138
    notthewordsofonewhokneels Thread's Avatar
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    what do you mean? we get the flu every year!
    I don't rightly know what I mean, 21,,,just seems odd that we haven't taken a fit over that million+.

  14. #139
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    I don't rightly know what I mean, 21,,,just seems odd that we haven't taken a fit over that million+.
    takes somebody really special in charge to turn "just a flu" into a crisis that shuts down the economy

  15. #140
    4-25-20 Will Hunting's Avatar
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    How can one contrast, Will, we ain't ever had a crisis like this.
    Right, when we face an unprecedented crisis that no one has dealt with before, Republicans drop the bootstrap capitalism act and are anxious to explore their Keynesian side with a massive government stimulus.

    If they really believed all of their free market bull , they’d kick back and do nothing since the free market would take care of it.

  16. #141
    notthewordsofonewhokneels Thread's Avatar
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    Right, when we face an unprecedented crisis that no one has dealt with before, Republicans drop the bootstrap capitalism act and are anxious to explore their Keynesian side with a massive government stimulus.

    If they really believed all of their free market bull , they’d kick back and do nothing since the free market would take care of it.
    But, it ain't an economic (enemy) (force), Will. It's a medical enemy, force.

    A lot of this Board was eagerly waiting the regular scheduled Recession that they asserted was overdue, even imminent when Corona came waltzing down the pike.

  17. #142
    4-25-20 Will Hunting's Avatar
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    But, it ain't an economic (enemy) (force), Will. It's a medical enemy, force.

    A lot of this Board was eagerly waiting the regular scheduled Recession that they asserted was overdue, even imminent when Corona came waltzing down the pike.
    It’s an enemy the free market should be able to address if we’re going by supply-side principals.

    Lets also not act like this is the first time Republicans went the safe route with a Keynesian-centric stimulus package because they didn’t want to take a chance that the free market wouldn’t be able to stave off complete economic meltdown.

  18. #143
    notthewordsofonewhokneels Thread's Avatar
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    It’s an enemy the free market should be able to address if we’re going by supply-side principals.

    Lets also not act like this is the first time Republicans went the safe route with a Keynesian-centric stimulus package because they didn’t want to take a chance that the free market wouldn’t be able to stave off complete economic meltdown.
    ...true, but, they had an excuse (Corona, an unknown en y) to mash the panic button & dole out the trillions. & they ain't done, not by a long shot. All the safeguards & warning lights have been unplugged now.

    Questions are asked about Corona,,,and the hemmin' & hawin' immediately starts. [That is disconcerting] to everyone. Watch 'em when the questions are asked...they immediately move about in their seat, their eyes dart just a motion as they're grasping for it..."uh.......wash your hands for 20 seconds and don't touch your face, Wolf."

    With AIDs they had an answer, a lie yes, but, a ready answer that quelled the panic..."only 35% at most of those who test positive for HIV will develop AIDs." We bought that lie and settled back into our lives. The ones who called it a lie were persecuted and silenced.

  19. #144
    A neverending cycle Trainwreck2100's Avatar
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    No one here is getting a dime.
    all these people getting enough money to cover rent for a month, 1 month, which would most likely go to some corporation anyway.

  20. #145
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    I think it was DAF86 who said this but remarkable how in a time of crisis like this Republicans are ready to trade their supply-side free market for some old fashioned Keynesian stimulus.
    Is the flip side of that old canard always pushed when somebody says we should be paying more in taxes... "well, why don't you write a check to the IRS then?"

  21. #146
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    Is the flip side of that old canard always pushed when somebody says we should be paying more in taxes... "well, why don't you write a check to the IRS then?"
    yes and no, because when tax cuts are in play, you usually dont see people of the left saying "yes we need this right now" while being happy the tax cuts are coming... but even conservatives right now agree the stimulus/bailout is a good idea.

    the whole "write a check to the IRS" stuff is such a shtick though. nobody likes paying taxes just for the sake of paying taxes, but because they want certain programs implemented (healthcare expansion, etc). writing a blank check to the government is not going to get us towards that end, and in fact, the US is only allowed to use "gifts" for the sole purpose of paying down the national debt

  22. #147
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    yes and no, because when tax cuts are in play, you usually dont see people of the left saying "yes we need this right now" while being happy the tax cuts are coming... but even conservatives right now agree the stimulus/bailout is a good idea.

    the whole "write a check to the IRS" stuff is such a shtick though. nobody likes paying taxes just for the sake of paying taxes, but because they want certain programs implemented (healthcare expansion, etc). writing a blank check to the government is not going to get us towards that end, and in fact, the US is only allowed to use "gifts" for the sole purpose of paying down the national debt
    Not to mention it doesn't work like that. An individual contribution doesn't compare to an actual rate hike.

  23. #148
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    Fed economists estimate unemployment rate could hit 32 percent

    https://theweek.com/speedreads/905745/fed-economists-estimate-unemployment-rate-could-hit-32-percent

    and the oligarchy doesn't give the tiniest , they got their $Ts in tax cuts and loopholes and off shore tax evasion

    32%? Que Les Mangent de la Brioche




  24. #149
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    A deeper dive into the nuts and bolts of financial side of the bailout. The argument is that a Fed/Treasury joint has will be nationalizing parts of the finance sector. Sounds even morenradical than the 2008-9 save.

    When the Fed was rightly alarmed by the current dysfunction in the fixed-income markets, they felt they needed to act. This was the correct thought. But, to get the authority to stabilize these “private” markets, central bankers needed the Treasury to agree to nationalize (own) them so they could provide the funds to do it.

    In effect, the Fed is giving the Treasury access to its printing press. This means that, in the extreme, the administration would be free to use its control, not the Fed’s control, of these SPVs to instruct the Fed to print more money so it could buy securities and hand out loans in an effort to ramp financial markets higher going into the election. Why stop there? Should Trump win re-election, he could try to use these SPVs to get those 10,000 Dow Jones points he feels the Fed has denied everyone.

    If these acronym programs were abused as I describe, they might indeed force markets higher than valuation warrants. But it would come with a heavy price. Investors would be deprived of the necessary market signals that freely traded capital markets offer to aid in the efficient allocation of capital. Malinvestment would be rampant.

    It also could force private sector players to leave as the government’s heavy hand makes operating in “controlled” markets uneconomic. This has already occurred in the U.S. federal funds market and the government bond market in Japan.
    http://archive.vn/9yQff

  25. #150
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    But it’s the alphabet soup of new programs that deserve special consideration, as they could have profound long-term consequences for the functioning of the Fed and the allocation of capital in financial markets. Specifically, these are:

    CPFF (Commercial Paper Funding Facility) – buying commercial paper from the issuer.

    PMCCF (Primary Market Corporate Credit Facility) – buying corporate bonds from the issuer.

    TALF (Term Asset-Backed Securities Loan Facility) – funding backstop for asset-backed securities.

    SMCCF (Secondary Market Corporate Credit Facility) – buying corporate bonds and bond ETFs in the secondary market.

    MSBLP (Main Street Business Lending Program) – Details are to come, but it will lend to eligible small and medium-size businesses, complementing efforts by the Small Business Association.

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