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  1. #26
    The Great Eight Ocotillo's Avatar
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    What's somewhat counter-intuitive to the mindset that the rest of the NBA has passed the Spurs by is the fact that "the Beautiful Game" is what inspired today's style of play. Granted, the Warriors took the Spurs offensive game and modified it to largely focus on perimeter shooting, and that's the final model that's been copied by the rest of the league. But the Spurs laid the groundwork for that. And hidden in that great offense of the Warriors was really good defense, which was always the Spurs staple for success. I think the Spurs haven't been passed by nearly as much as they are handicapped by the limitations of their current roster.

    The talent on this team is not that good, and this team's two marque players have no history of winning. The rest of the team is limited in ability and talent. We don't have length. We don't have great shooters. We can't play defense.

    When you look at the assembled collection of limited talent, led by two guys who lack that killer instinct needed to win, it's amazing that this team has done as well as it has the last couple of seasons.

    Does Pop need to be replaced someone more willing to stroke the fragile egos of today's superstars? Perhaps. Is he too old and out of touch? Maybe...but few thought that a year ago. I think he could still coach a talented group as well as he ever has.

    My thought is that most of today's spoiled superstars won't choose San Antonio as a destination anyway, regardless of who's coaching. This team had a lot of coaches before Pop that didn't take the team anywhere, even with a prime Robinson, and with a prime Gervin prior to that. Even with Duncan, we had a great team because we scouted superior talent, primarily overseas, and were ahead of the curve in utilizing international talent. It's not a culture reset we need as much as a talent reset. We've done a terrible job building this roster and it needs to have the slate cleaned.
    Yes this. At the end of the day, a coach needs talent in this league and the Spurs have always had it since Duncan came to the team. The one two punch of Nephew wanting to play in LA and Morris stiffing the Spurs has resulted in a team that is assembled poorly. Originally, the team was building around Nephew but when he forced his way out, DD was brought in and was a less than ideal piece to go with Aldridge. (We can argue until the cows come home that it was an awful trade or we should have sat Nephew the whole season or whatever but that is now water under the bridge) Then while adding Morris would not have made this team likely to ring, he would have certainly made this team more compe ive than it is. Add to that, Bertans was given away to make room so not only did a needed piece not come but another piece was let go for nothing.

    So this team continues to struggle with assembling the right mix of players and has had two major issues that resulted in the team not really having the right mix of players on the team.

    This is just the case notwithstanding whether Pop needs to go or Brian Wright is not any good at his job or R.C. is overrated when it comes to picking talent. Pop is at the age where he should go ahead and hand the keys to someone younger but I bet he doesn't want to turn over this show to someone else setting them up for failure.

  2. #27
    Veteran cd021's Avatar
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    The league could do a lot to even things up if they would just move the 3P line out one foot. They could even keep the stupid short corner, since it would be a foot longer and there would only be 24" to stand in at the baseline. There would be a lot more toes on the line, and heels stepping out of bounds. If Silver didn't want this, they would have done it already.

    The 3 is especially overpowered at the end of games. One rule change I've never heard anywhere else that I would like to see is that in the last 2:00 of the game, a missed 3-pointer is an automatic change of possession.

    There was a time when the league put in a jump ball after FT's. That way a team couldn't foul and automatically count on getting the ball back. It slowed the game down too much, but I wouldn't mind seeing it in the last 2:00 either.
    One idea that i've heard is the idea of limiting the amount of time a player can spend spotting up in the corners. I.E three seconds in the paint but now three seconds in the corners. It would force more movement and limit the effectiveness of 3's.

    Another idea is to eliminate the corners entirely and push the line out further.



    basically think of the dark grey line as the three point line, instead of arching the line it basically ends at the sideline.

    It would limit the amount of attempts and force more play inside of the 3pt line. Good 3pt shooters would become increasingly valuable while mediocre shooters would have to figure out something else to do to be effective.

  3. #28
    Veteran blizz's Avatar
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    That’s the problem with letting just any no talent asshat write articles.

  4. #29
    You Are Not Worthy ZeusWillJudge's Avatar
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    One idea that i've heard is the idea of limiting the amount of time a player can spend spotting up in the corners. I.E three seconds in the paint but now three seconds in the corners. It would force more movement and limit the effectiveness of 3's.

    Another idea is to eliminate the corners entirely and push the line out further.



    basically think of the dark grey line as the three point line, instead of arching the line it basically ends at the sideline.

    It would limit the amount of attempts and force more play inside of the 3pt line. Good 3pt shooters would become increasingly valuable while mediocre shooters would have to figure out something else to do to be effective.
    The 3-second idea would do a lot, but it would be so hard to police. They would almost have to add another official to keep it from being one of those hit-or-miss things that spark conspiracy theories. I'm all for bringing the 3P line out far enough for it to run to the sideline, like in your picture. I don't think the league wants anything that drastic. Honestly, I'm not sure they want to do anything at all.

  5. #30
    Every game is game 1 Seventyniner's Avatar
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    I would just have the three-point line be off (non-existent) in the first and third quarters.

    My preferred "fix" is when you make a three, your three-point line turns off, but when you make a shot from behind the line while it's off, it turns on. Basically threes are worth 2.5 (shots behind the line alternate between being worth 2 and 3 points). Maybe turn the three-point line on in the last two minutes of the game and the last two minutes of all OT periods.

  6. #31
    #POPOUT
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    what spurs need are:
    a young prospect from top draft that we can build around him a team
    a new coach
    more courage in trading players and stop overvaluing spurs players

  7. #32
    Dejounte, White & THE IV Truth4sale$'s Avatar
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    The Spurs culture is respected around the league by management and owners, but not players. The players as Jalen Rose once said " The 'Spurs' way' looks like opportunity dressed in overalls. It looks like work, and people really don't want that. Players talk about wanting to win and wanting to be a champion, but ultimately they want to do it on their own terms. And when you go to San Antonio, guess who is the CEO of that organization? Gregg Popovich. It's going to be his way."
    That is how management and coaches in relation to players is supposed to be. Unfortunately too many players are selfish and dont want to really work but once they do, they develop, and they leave for the big payday. Regardless, spurs will have to continue to develop from within and hope to succeed in finding/developing that rare player like Kawhi but actually stays.

  8. #33
    Veteran cd021's Avatar
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    The 3-second idea would do a lot, but it would be so hard to police. They would almost have to add another official to keep it from being one of those hit-or-miss things that spark conspiracy theories. I'm all for bringing the 3P line out far enough for it to run to the sideline, like in your picture. I don't think the league wants anything that drastic. Honestly, I'm not sure they want to do anything at all.
    Agreed. Its a good idea but really hard to call consistently without adding a 4th ref. That could lead to unintended consequences like an increase in turnovers because players forget that they can't be camped out in the corners. Ultimately, though it would lead to increased movement and less reliance on 3's.

    I also really like the idea of moving the 3pt line back 2 feet and not arcing it too. Would force more action inside of the arc. The best shooters would still be valuable but the more mediocre shooters wouldn't be able to jack up shots because the math makes it viable.

  9. #34
    You Are Not Worthy ZeusWillJudge's Avatar
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    Agreed. Its a good idea but really hard to call consistently without adding a 4th ref. That could lead to unintended consequences like an increase in turnovers because players forget that they can't be camped out in the corners. Ultimately, though it would lead to increased movement and less reliance on 3's.

    I also really like the idea of moving the 3pt line back 2 feet and not arcing it too. Would force more action inside of the arc. The best shooters would still be valuable but the more mediocre shooters wouldn't be able to jack up shots because the math makes it viable.
    Agreed. At the start, a lot of corner 3 attempts would wind up being 2 point attempts, because there would be a lot more toes on the line. I'm sure there would also be some extra turnovers due to heels on the sideline. That would lower the point-per-attempt of those shots, and pretty quickly teams would begin to play more basketball inside the arc as you said.

    I think that would be the lowest-impact adjustment. The 3-point shot is overpowered right now, but the corner 3 especially. It puts a lot of guys on the floor who are only good at one thing, which means the overall level of skill is lower. I think that makes the game less watchable.

  10. #35
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    I disagree, tbh, the Spurs need more culture... Patty aged, and the team never recovered from letting go of cultured guys like Pau, Splitter and Bobo, tbh...

  11. #36
    D up! exstatic's Avatar
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    The Spurs culture is respected around the league by management and owners, but not players. The players as Jalen Rose once said " The 'Spurs' way' looks like opportunity dressed in overalls. It looks like work, and people really don't want that. Players talk about wanting to win and wanting to be a champion, but ultimately they want to do it on their own terms. And when you go to San Antonio, guess who is the CEO of that organization? Gregg Popovich. It's going to be his way."
    That is how management and coaches in relation to players is supposed to be. Unfortunately too many players are selfish and dont want to really work but once they do, they develop, and they leave for the big payday. Regardless, spurs will have to continue to develop from within and hope to succeed in finding/developing that rare player like Kawhi but actually stays.
    . WTF has Jaeln Rose ever won or done to be talking Spurs smack? ing POS.

    OK, here’s the 411 on culture: Shaq and Kobe co-existed for 8 years, and won three les. It should have been 15 and 8 or 9 les, but they didn’t have someone to straighten them. Dallas drafted 3 talented young players, Jason Kidd, Jamal Mashburn, and Jimmy Jackson. They were all talented, and spoiled, and couldn’t get along, and the team flew apart because there was no one to straighten them, either. Plenty of teams do it the way you guys want, letting the inmates run the asylum, and they fail year after year.

  12. #37
    Veteran R. DeMurre's Avatar
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    The biggest change I see with the Spurs is a move away from defense. This current team will routinely have three poor defenders on the floor at the same time-- that never happened from 1999-2017. I think they've given a half-hearted nod to the three point era having Mills, Forbes, and Belinelli, but they don't shoot enough threes to counterbalance the poor defense they bring. The older Spurs often had four good-to-great defenders plus Tony Parker on the floor. This team is reversed, often with only one good defender trying to help plug the gaps of four mediocre-to-bad defenders.

  13. #38
    The OL' Perfessor wildbill2u's Avatar
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    The first thing people want to do when a franchise runs out of superstars is change everything from the coach to the culture. This article is about the "outdated culture" but it also implicates a change of Head Coach and possibly firing a front office that is too set in the mold of the Spurs culture to resuscitate the franchise. This is a team first culture concept that won five les and set a record for playoff participation that will never be broken in the modern NBA.



    "During that time, a strong culture has been developed that has allowed the Spurs to consistently win. That is, until this season." Let's take a look at the claims--and see if they hold up.


    "David Robinson and Tim Duncan — and later Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili — had a massive impact on the organization. Their team-first mentality, selflessness, hard work, understated toughness and commitment to winning are still values that are emphasized".

    While it is true that these players were unique in their willingness to adapt to the Spurs team first concept, the first and probably biggest adaptation is for superstars that are willing to play --and raise their families---in a very small market. Note that none of these players were from the playgrounds of the U.S where alternative values such as "Me first" super s om including racking up individual stats, individual perks, and individual aspirations for national publicity and the resulting opportunities for outside income, during and after playing contracts, are measured more highly than the values of Spurs culture.

    Few teams in the modern NBA even HAVE what could be considered a team concept and culture. Detroit had the "bad boys" and we beat the snot out of them. The Lakers had Hollywood and we alternated with them at being the best when they arguably had the best center ever, best guard ever, and the best supporting talent that money can buy. That is the culture they are repeatiing with LeBron, Anthony Davis etc. Miami had a culture--three superstars who decided to play and dominate the league. In the ultimate proof of the 'Beautiful Game" was the comment on the thrashing by Chris Bosh "That was the best basketball I ever saw." So we are supposed to throw out the concept and culture that has been wildly successful in a small market-- because we don't have the star players right now. We are probably never going to have the luxury we had over the last 20 years with such wonderful players--but if we do get a superstar by the draft, the only way we will be able to keep him is if he buys into the San Antonio culture and the Spurs culture. They go together as a winning concept.

  14. #39
    Believe.
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    Yes this. At the end of the day, a coach needs talent in this league and the Spurs have always had it since Duncan came to the team. The one two punch of Nephew wanting to play in LA and Morris stiffing the Spurs has resulted in a team that is assembled poorly. Originally, the team was building around Nephew but when he forced his way out, DD was brought in and was a less than ideal piece to go with Aldridge. (We can argue until the cows come home that it was an awful trade or we should have sat Nephew the whole season or whatever but that is now water under the bridge) Then while adding Morris would not have made this team likely to ring, he would have certainly made this team more compe ive than it is. Add to that, Bertans was given away to make room so not only did a needed piece not come but another piece was let go for nothing.

    So this team continues to struggle with assembling the right mix of players and has had two major issues that resulted in the team not really having the right mix of players on the team.

    This is just the case notwithstanding whether Pop needs to go or Brian Wright is not any good at his job or R.C. is overrated when it comes to picking talent. Pop is at the age where he should go ahead and hand the keys to someone younger but I bet he doesn't want to turn over this show to someone else setting them up for failure.
    No matter what the haters say, fate has dealt the Spurs a cruel hand starting with the infamous ankle turn and what has followed as stated in your post. Cir stance has really punched the Spurs in the gut more than once since then. The Spurs need players. The path they take to achieve that has been discussed here endlessly. Although there is much talk about the main position of need , it doesn't matter. The Spurs need to somehow draft a difference maker no matter the position. Take the best player available in the draft if he can be perhaps that person. It doesn't matter who is coaching, The Spurs need players.
    (And personally I think they need to make a decision no matter what route they go if they have their point guard on the team right now. I mean a consistent, true, NBA lpoint guard. )

  15. #40
    dump derozan Genovaswitness's Avatar
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    Please tell me poop is going to retire. Watching game 7 of the 2005 finals recently just highlights how far he’s fallen. Dude used to be a savage. now he is a drooling liberal idiot

  16. #41
    The OL' Perfessor wildbill2u's Avatar
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    We have to be really bad to get to draft well. What if CIA Pop was closely calculating the playing time of the youngsters to prevent a season where we had a middle of the road draft, yet gave them some on court experience??? That wouldn't be CIA, that would be Machiavellian.

  17. #42
    Believe.
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    Give me a quiet assassin bad ass leader in TD three HOFs again like Duncan, Ginobili and Parker , a young coach and a cast of tough minded role players and I give U culture any day of the week anywhere. You are as good as your players. The culture is always a great tale that happens after you win bad.

  18. #43
    Believe. Trueblood's Avatar
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    People calling for a culture change... Our culture and our reputation is all we have. We are NOT a coveted free agent destination and unless some earthquake knocks corpus Christi into the ocean and we become beach front property don't expect us to become one. We don't have a bunch of clubs and nightlife that a lot of these All Star players want. We are a sleepy little hick town and frankly I like it that way.

    So let's say people get their way and we start drafting talent and tank the culture and fit aspect. What do the players stay for after their rookie contract? The Mexican food? They will still leave and we will still have nothing. If you draft high character guys you at least have a chance of keeping them.
    We can't compete with major markets and nephew was a prime example. When players can get 2-3 times their NBA salary in shoe, movie, and commercial deals in major markets, how can we compete? The only two things small market teams have is home field advantage (I don't see SA producing any franchise changing talent in the near future, but I believe that LA being raised in Austin really factored into his decision) and culture. People know that SA values hard work and winning and that's about the only thing we have going for us. Take that away and what do we have left?
    Wait for the right guy with the right mentality and take your lumps until they get here.
    And for those disagreeing, I'd love to hear your plans on keeping players who aren't culture fits. Go ahead. I'll wait...

  19. #44
    "The ball don't lie." dbestpro's Avatar
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    Dictate the game. - Give me two bigs that can hit 60% FG down low, a point forward that can crash the boards land hit the mid range from the the foul line in, and two guards who can hit the three and get back on defense. Feed the bigs, kick back out to the open three, and go back to the defense where we crowded the shooters and forced them to drive into the bigs.

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