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  1. #26
    Drive for Five! ambchang's Avatar
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    As a MJ supporter, this surprised me. I have to roll my eyes. For example how can you rank Jordan over Laettner in College?
    Worthy and Perkins were the go to guys on that team.

    Reminds me of when Harvard was voted having the best undergraduate business program despite not having one.

    In twenty years’ time, lebron and Kobe will be known as the best college players of all time.

  2. #27
    Veteran
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    The Spurs went from being a 60 something wins team with him, to a borderline playoffs team without him. The Raptors didn't sniff a championship without him, and won't sniff a championship without him anytime soon.

    How good the Raptors did in the regular season without him doesn't matter. When the playoffs arrive (if they arrive somewhen) they will be missing that ultimate bucket getter and bucket stopper that is Kawhi. Because that's Kawhi's biggest strength: when the going gets tough, assholes get tight, ball movement stops and all the role players are there watching while standing still, Kawhi is the guy you want most to get You a bucket (or prevent one). Not Lebron, not Giannis, not Harden, not anyone. Kawhi, with that bot-like midrange jumper of his, is the one that gets done at the highest level in the NBA right now.

    Of course they did. They handed away an elite role player with him and left themselves bereft of 3 and D wings (aka the consensus most valuable archetype in today's game) and the most ill-fitting roster in the league. They still made the playoffs twice without him.

    The Raptors had James and the Warriors in their way, no superstar, a lack of 3 and D wings and a cancerous 2nd best player. S bag, the senile Spurs front office and fate removed all of them from the picture.

    They more than likely can't "win" a championship without him, but they're still a top 4 team and capable of giving the Bucks or L.A. teams a scare at the very least.

    S bag is still a pathetic play maker and elite play making is as valuable as elite ISO scoring. He's been lucky to be on the most complete team in the league his entire career and win 2 championships where the path was cleared.

  3. #28
    Because I choose to. Neo.'s Avatar
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    The Spurs went from being a 60 something wins team with him, to a borderline playoffs team without him. The Raptors didn't sniff a championship without him, and won't sniff a championship without him anytime soon.
    no one is saying he wasnt a piece to make good teams better, or that his teams would win championships without him. just that his teams were already very good before him, after him, and while he was injured

    its not like how the cavs and heat immediately turned into lottery teams once lebron left, despite keeping the remaining core together

    even last year, lebron was on pace to pull off another pretty impressive feat with the lakers, as he took a team near the bottom of the conference, to being a top 4 seed nearly halfway through the season. then injuries completely demolished them.

    How good the Raptors did in the regular season without him doesn't matter. When the playoffs arrive (if they arrive somewhen) they will be missing that ultimate bucket getter and bucket stopper that is Kawhi. Because that's Kawhi's biggest strength: when the going gets tough, assholes get tight, ball movement stops and all the role players are there watching while standing still, Kawhi is the guy you want most to get You a bucket (or prevent one). Not Lebron, not Giannis, not Harden, not anyone. Kawhi, with that bot-like midrange jumper of his, is the one that gets done at the highest level in the NBA right now.
    thats all great, but it still doesn't change the fact that his teams are still very solid without him

    is he a very valuable player? sure

    but id say its quite a stretch to say that his ability to hit tough midrange jumpers in crunchtime in one run to a championship suddenly qualifies him to be unquestionably the most valuable player in all of sports, especially when the team they faced in the finals had two of their best three players hurt, and they still nearly took it to game 7

    and i dont even think you can say hes unquestionably the best clutch option either. he's had a nice run for a year, but lets see a longer history of this first before crowning him so quickly, when you have guys like Lebron and KD who have had years of bigtime shots and clutch moments, as well as far superior vision and ball handling. lets also not overlook the fact that on many occasions GS trapped him and he often looked lost as to what to do, and on many of those occasions was bailed out by Lowry and Van Vleet creating something out of nothing with a short shot clock. if a team has no fear of doubling you and forcing the ball out of your hands, that takes away the "bucket getter" advantage. he has some definite holes in his game that can be exploited in the crunch as well, but due to major injuries, GS simply didn't have the players to do so consistently. id say the only reason GS didn't double him more, was not because kawhi knew how to make the right play, but because lowry and VV was just destroying anyone who guarded them. if they had both klay and KD on defense, thats not nearly as big of a problem

    i dont question that hes valuable to a team, but with such a small history, and the fact that the vast majority of his value comes in 1-on-1 scoring situations (on both sides, yes), i just dont see how he can be so unquestionably the most valuable player to any team in all of sports. that's just ridiculous. and completely re ed.
    Last edited by Neo.; 04-02-2020 at 04:41 PM.

  4. #29
    5X ST MVP Spurtacular's Avatar
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    The closest thing I've seen to the truth (from some odd years back; back when people weren't such shameless player fans).

    ESPN.com SportsNation Poll - Greatest College Basketball Players

    1. David Thompson
    2. Pete Maravich
    3. Lew Alcindor
    4. Larry Bird
    5. Bill Walton

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