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  1. #776
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    Damn, Black Trump is ALSO a snitch??!?! Not just a petty snitch, but a ing Karen.

    Dude is such a in girl.

    Dude is just like Trump, he even has a giant cult of really, really stupid fans that will buy his no matter what.

  2. #777
    HAHAHAHAHA Spurms lefty's Avatar
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    The Jordan-Lebron is especially dumb since you don't have to reach as high as Lebron to make the comparison there are many others in between that would have had similar or equivalent success to Jordan with the same cir stance. He did all his winning at a time where he didn't have to compete against many players of note on the perimeter on either side of the ball, and when he actually did, he had Scottie to defend for him.

    He didn't win a single thing when other great teams were around. It wasn't until Bird was washed, Magic was at the end of his run and the Pistons were old. He couldn't even reach the playoffs in the worst East in NBA history when the league received an influx of perimeter talent.

    Definitely win 6 rings with the same cir stances: Durant, Kobe, Wade, Bird, Kawhi

    Between 3-6: Dr. J, Dominique Wilkins, Paul Pierce, Jimmy Butler, McGrady, Paul George, Vince Carter, Clyde Drexler, Scottie Pippen

    At least a couple: Reggie Miller, Ray Allen, Iverson, Ginobili, Grant Hill, Bernard King

    I'm probably forgetting a bunch, as well.
    True true

  3. #778
    Because I choose to. Neo.'s Avatar
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    The Jordan-Lebron is especially dumb since you don't have to reach as high as Lebron to make the comparison there are many others in between that would have had similar or equivalent success to Jordan with the same cir stance. He did all his winning at a time where he didn't have to compete against many players of note on the perimeter on either side of the ball, and when he actually did, he had Scottie to defend for him.

    He didn't win a single thing when other great teams were around. It wasn't until Bird was washed, Magic was at the end of his run and the Pistons were old.
    this

    i view the 90s bulls similar to the 80s 49ers

    for years, NFL teams were built to run the ball, and stop the run, along with the occasional deep pass. when the west coast offense that the 49ers ran came into play, teams simply didn't have the right defensive personnel to match up with them, and they completely dominated a decade. but nowadays, almost no one bothers running the west coast offense, because defenses have figured it out and are built to prevent it.

    likewise, the NBA was built around point guards who controlled the game to get the ball down low to big men and low post scorers. the bulls were a very different animal, generally being smaller than most teams, more focused on wing players, precise off-ball movement, and 2-way versatility. teams generally werent built to match up with them. the ones that actually could, gave them problems, despite being noticeably less talented teams (knicks, pacers).

    nowadays, the entire NBA is pretty much built on wing players. the league is built to match up with teams built the way the bulls were.

    thats not to say that those bulls teams wouldnt have success in todays league, they absolutely would. however, lets plug them in for an 8 year stretch during some of lebrons best years from 2009-2017, and take lebrons teams out of the equation. due to matchups, i have a hard time believing the bulls win 6 in 8 years, while having to combat the dynasty spurs, dynasty warriors, along with near-dynasty celtics and lakers (if not for injuries, a case could be made that either team should have 3-peated from 08-10). and thats with the bulls being completely healthy, lets not even factor in the injuries miami dealt with in 2014, or cleveland had in 2015, or the departure of kyrie in 2017. at the thought of mike beating KD or Steph warriors without pippen, or a dynasty spurs team (with a brilliant gameplanning coach in pop) with pippen on one leg

  4. #779
    Believe. Michael Jordan.'s Avatar
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    The Jordan-Lebron is especially dumb since you don't have to reach as high as Lebron to make the comparison there are many others in between that would have had similar or equivalent success to Jordan with the same cir stance. He did all his winning at a time where he didn't have to compete against many players of note on the perimeter on either side of the ball, and when he actually did, he had Scottie to defend for him.

    He didn't win a single thing when other great teams were around. It wasn't until Bird was washed, Magic was at the end of his run and the Pistons were old. He couldn't even reach the playoffs in the worst East in NBA history when the league received an influx of perimeter talent.

    Definitely win 6 rings with the same cir stances: Durant, Kobe, Wade, Bird, Kawhi

    Between 3-6: Dr. J, Dominique Wilkins, Paul Pierce, Jimmy Butler, McGrady, Paul George, Vince Carter, Clyde Drexler, Scottie Pippen

    At least a couple: Reggie Miller, Ray Allen, Iverson, Ginobili, Grant Hill, Bernard King

    I'm probably forgetting a bunch, as well.
    LeBron won what Pierce and KG were around? The had to join Wade and Bosh to get around them and still got his ass waxed by Jason Terry and a dwarf in the finals.

  5. #780
    Believe. Michael Jordan.'s Avatar
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    Got his pushed in by Dwight in the ECF WITH home court. LeBron wasn’t and isn’t without Wade Bosh and Kyrie

  6. #781
    Believe. Michael Jordan.'s Avatar
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    But we shall look at the numbers 👀


    2008-2009 Cavs: Finished 1st in defense, 13th offense. Gets home court, loses as the One seed to the Magic, who finished 10th on offense and 6th on defense.

    2009-2010 Cavs: Finished 9th on offense, 6th in defense. Loses as the One seed yet again with home court to Boston, who finished 19TH IN OFFENSE

    2010-2011 Heat: Finished 8th on Offense and 6th in defense. Dallas finishes 11th in offense 10th on defense. Another team where LeBron’s has advantages. Yet lost again with home court.



    “But but LeBron had no help”

  7. #782
    coffee's for closers FrostKing's Avatar
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    The Jordan-Lebron is especially dumb since you don't have to reach as high as Lebron to make the comparison there are many others in between that would have had similar or equivalent success to Jordan with the same cir stance. He did all his winning at a time where he didn't have to compete against many players of note on the perimeter on either side of the ball, and when he actually did, he had Scottie to defend for him.

    He didn't win a single thing when other great teams were around. It wasn't until Bird was washed, Magic was at the end of his run and the Pistons were old. He couldn't even reach the playoffs in the worst East in NBA history when the league received an influx of perimeter talent.

    Definitely win 6 rings with the same cir stances: Durant, Kobe, Wade, Bird, Kawhi

    Between 3-6: Dr. J, Dominique Wilkins, Paul Pierce, Jimmy Butler, McGrady, Paul George, Vince Carter, Clyde Drexler, Scottie Pippen

    At least a couple: Reggie Miller, Ray Allen, Iverson, Ginobili, Grant Hill, Bernard King

    I'm probably forgetting a bunch, as well.
    You are ignoring all the heavy lifting it required to reach that point. The crushing losses the tens of thousands of hours in practice, the physically fighting teammates and burning personal bridges it took to Win. Instead you fast forward straight to - put on shorts and lace up sneakers stage

    Durant you can cross right off considering he bolted on OKC with his own Pippen on the team. The crap LeBron gets, Durant essentially bolted the Chicago Bulls to play on the Lakers.

    Kobe and Bird - yes. They have the skills, drive and demeanor

    Wade - seems too buddy buddy with his teammates

    Leonard - 3rd best option on your list. Just not sure he has the explosive game changing skills to draw in players early in career like Jordan did. Plus he seems too shy and lead by example type


    Some people seem to only see the big picture - 6/6 les. But there were several lucky breaks that made this happen such as Jordan taking a break for 1 year. Rodman becoming available. Kukoc arriving and agreeing to stunt his one growth for the teams success.
    Last edited by FrostKing; 05-21-2020 at 06:44 PM.

  8. #783
    coffee's for closers FrostKing's Avatar
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    this

    i view the 90s bulls similar to the 80s 49ers

    for years, NFL teams were built to run the ball, and stop the run, along with the occasional deep pass. when the west coast offense that the 49ers ran came into play, teams simply didn't have the right defensive personnel to match up with them, and they completely dominated a decade. but nowadays, almost no one bothers running the west coast offense, because defenses have figured it out and are built to prevent it.

    likewise, the NBA was built around point guards who controlled the game to get the ball down low to big men and low post scorers. the bulls were a very different animal, generally being smaller than most teams, more focused on wing players, precise off-ball movement, and 2-way versatility. teams generally werent built to match up with them. the ones that actually could, gave them problems, despite being noticeably less talented teams (knicks, pacers).

    nowadays, the entire NBA is pretty much built on wing players. the league is built to match up with teams built the way the bulls were.

    thats not to say that those bulls teams wouldnt have success in todays league, they absolutely would. however, lets plug them in for an 8 year stretch during some of lebrons best years from 2009-2017, and take lebrons teams out of the equation. due to matchups, i have a hard time believing the bulls win 6 in 8 years, while having to combat the dynasty spurs, dynasty warriors, along with near-dynasty celtics and lakers (if not for injuries, a case could be made that either team should have 3-peated from 08-10). and thats with the bulls being completely healthy, lets not even factor in the injuries miami dealt with in 2014, or cleveland had in 2015, or the departure of kyrie in 2017. at the thought of mike beating KD or Steph warriors without pippen, or a dynasty spurs team (with a brilliant gameplanning coach in pop) with pippen on one leg
    - If the 1980s 49ers existed today they would have the best offensive player in the League (Rice) and best defensive player in the League (Lott). That is a significant advantage. Craig would fit right in, Top 5 RB

    The 49ers had arguably a better offense in the 90s but didn't win as many les because their defense was weaker. Most their losses in the 80s were the result of defense failing them

    - If 90s Bulls existed today, they would have the 2 best perimeter defenders in a perimeter dominated Era. So the Bulls would be even better today. Look at the teams the Bulls struggled against - dominant front courts. That no longer exists

  9. #784
    coffee's for closers FrostKing's Avatar
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    Duncan's Spurs (Bowen/Leonard and Manu,Parker) and Shaq's Lakers are the two teams I would avoid. All the rest had inferior players and/or significant weaknesses that could be exploited. 2008 Celtics would be interesting. Alot of depth and Ray Allen still elite player.

  10. #785
    Because I choose to. Neo.'s Avatar
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    - If the 1980s 49ers existed today they would have the best offensive player in the League (Rice) and best defensive player in the League (Lott). That is a significant advantage. Craig would fit right in, Top 5 RB
    ok

    rice is arguable, but at lott being the best defensive player in the league today and roger craig being a top 5 rb

    - If 90s Bulls existed today, they would have the 2 best perimeter defenders in a perimeter dominated Era. So the Bulls would be even better today.
    mmm one could definitely argue that the clippers alone have two better perimeter defenders, not even including the rest of the NBA

    plus mike/pippen were arguably the best wing defenders in a era that was pretty weak on wing players, and the few good ones they faced, they got ate alive regularly just like anyone else.

    Look at the teams the Bulls struggled against - dominant front courts. That no longer exists
    they pretty much beat all the teams they faced with dominant front courts, because their mismatches outweigh the frontcourt mismatches, the same way the warriors did for the past 4 years, or miami did for their 4 years.

    the one thing the bulls didnt really face, were teams with multiple legit wing/perimeter threats to match up with mike/scottie, like the warriors, miami, or cleveland over the past 10 years. id love to have gotten a chance to see how they face teams that force both of them to defend elite players at the same time, instead of taking turns on one guy

  11. #786
    coffee's for closers FrostKing's Avatar
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    ok

    rice is arguable, but at lott being the best defensive player in the league today and roger craig being a top 5 rb



    mmm one could definitely argue that the clippers alone have two better perimeter defenders, not even including the rest of the NBA

    plus mike/pippen were arguably the best wing defenders in a era that was pretty weak on wing players, and the few good ones they faced, they got ate alive regularly just like anyone else.



    they pretty much beat all the teams they faced with dominant front courts, because their mismatches outweigh the frontcourt mismatches, the same way the warriors did for the past 4 years, or miami did for their 4 years.

    the one thing the bulls didnt really face, were teams with multiple legit wing/perimeter threats to match up with mike/scottie, like the warriors, miami, or cleveland over the past 10 years. id love to have gotten a chance to see how they face teams that force both of them to defend elite players at the same time, instead of taking turns on one guy
    What's wrong with Craig in Top 5? He is ideal for today. Excellent receiver out of backfield and strong blocker. RB is weak these days

    Of those three teams, Bosh is by far the best post player. Rodman would eat the boards. That spells feast or famine for these teams reliant on outside shooting. Irving chucking against 6'6 Harper. Who guards Kukoc?
    Last edited by FrostKing; 05-22-2020 at 02:01 AM.

  12. #787
    5X ST MVP Spurtacular's Avatar
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  13. #788
    coffee's for closers FrostKing's Avatar
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    Pippen was a late bloomer. Classic self doubter. Especially since he came from a gigantic family.

    Perfect combo for each other

  14. #789
    coffee's for closers FrostKing's Avatar
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    YES! Unfortunately I have to record

    Just finished watching. Post final whistle, shots of initial reaction and then celebration is memorable. The quality is top notch. Inside the huddle content. Presentation is stripped down and I love that. The camera angle is slightly different so odd at first but more up close. Reminds me of NBA Live.

  15. #790
    We've got a job to do. Darth_Pelican's Avatar
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  16. #791
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    Are you buying the pizza story?

    Agree on the quality of the footage. My goodness, I am longing for more HD memories from the 90's now.

    Just finished watching. Post final whistle, shots of initial reaction and then celebration is memorable. The quality is top notch. Inside the huddle content. Presentation is stripped down and I love that. The camera angle is slightly different so odd at first but more up close. Reminds me of NBA Live.

  17. #792
    HAHAHAHAHA Spurms lefty's Avatar
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    no, Tim Grover looked like he was being held at gun point

  18. #793
    Veteran SpursforSix's Avatar
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    Are you buying the pizza story?

    Agree on the quality of the footage. My goodness, I am longing for more HD memories from the 90's now.
    I'm not buying it. Jordan is a classic manipulator. What better way to further his legend than to pretend he's sick and then come out and BOOOOOOOM. Oh I'm still sick. But I'm still Michael Jordan!!!! YEEEEEAWWWWWW!!!!!

  19. #794
    Drive for Five! ambchang's Avatar
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    Not sure why the pizza story is such a big deal. It came out back then. It’s really nothing new.

    I do doubt the bunch of shady guys lining up at the hotel room door though. Would be re ed for the entire troop to allow Jordan to eat that pizza in such cir stances.

  20. #795
    Believe. Dirks_Finale's Avatar
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    If the ridiculous pizza story is true, then Jordan surrounded himself with incompetent buffoons. Or maybe they wanted him to get sick.

  21. #796
    coffee's for closers FrostKing's Avatar
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    5. Rodman
    4. Kukoc
    3. Pippen
    2. Jordan
    1. Harper


    Phil Jackson
    Tex Winter
    Jerry Krause

  22. #797
    Veteran Arcadian's Avatar
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    The whole "let's try to imagine what would happen if Jordan played in the 2010s/Lebron played in the 90s" is stupid. There are too many variables, many of which are impossible to account for, for that thought experiment to be useful at all. All we can do is compare what they actually did relative to their compe ion.

  23. #798
    Believe. i'm_still_beta's Avatar
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    But we shall look at the numbers 


    2008-2009 Cavs: Finished 1st in defense, 13th offense. Gets home court, loses as the One seed to the Magic, who finished 10th on offense and 6th on defense.

    2009-2010 Cavs: Finished 9th on offense, 6th in defense. Loses as the One seed yet again with home court to Boston, who finished 19TH IN OFFENSE

    2010-2011 Heat: Finished 8th on Offense and 6th in defense. Dallas finishes 11th in offense 10th on defense. Another team where LeBron’s has advantages. Yet lost again with home court.



    “But but LeBron had no help”
    2009 - Not LeBron's fault. Mo Williams was second best player on the team. LJ was dominant in RS and Playoffs. 38.5 8.3 8.0 against Orlando. How can you blame LeBron for loss? Kobe had superior team and was less efficient and productive against same team in the Finals
    2010 - Cavaliers were outplayed by superior team. Plain and simple. Rondo, Garnett, Allen, Pierce, great bench against Mo, Jamison and corpse of Shaq.

    LeBron would be my GOAT if he could beat 2010 Celtics. And then he was going to face Lakers both times who were on Celtics' level. If LeBron had gone 3-0 against these teams he should be crowned as GOAT of North American sports period.

    2011 - LeBron's fault. No excuses.

  24. #799
    Believe. Dirks_Finale's Avatar
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    Were the 2014 Heatles good enough to win or did Lebron need more help?

    2009 - Not LeBron's fault. Mo Williams was second best player on the team. LJ was dominant in RS and Playoffs. 38.5 8.3 8.0 against Orlando. How can you blame LeBron for loss? Kobe had superior team and was less efficient and productive against same team in the Finals
    2010 - Cavaliers were outplayed by superior team. Plain and simple. Rondo, Garnett, Allen, Pierce, great bench against Mo, Jamison and corpse of Shaq.

    LeBron would be my GOAT if he could beat 2010 Celtics. And then he was going to face Lakers both times who were on Celtics' level. If LeBron had gone 3-0 against these teams he should be crowned as GOAT of North American sports period.

    2011 - LeBron's fault. No excuses.

  25. #800
    HAHAHAHAHA Spurms lefty's Avatar
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    Were the 2014 Heatles good enough to win or did Lebron need more help?
    The Spurs were just better

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