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  1. #801
    Believe. Dirks_Finale's Avatar
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    The Spurs were just better
    Nice deflection

  2. #802
    Believe. i'm_still_beta's Avatar
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    Were the 2014 Heatles good enough to win or did Lebron need more help?
    LeBron had enough help in 2014.

    But nobody perfect. Let's look at MJ. From 1990 he had enough help. He lost 1990. From 1991-1998 even more than enough because every year except 1995 he had better team from 2-15 than other team's best player. He had one of if not the best coaching staff in the league. Before that he was beaten just like every superstar player.

  3. #803
    Believe. Michael Jordan.'s Avatar
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    LeBron had enough help in 2014.

    But nobody perfect. Let's look at MJ. From 1990 he had enough help. He lost 1990. From 1991-1998 even more than enough because every year except 1995 he had better team from 2-15 than other team's best player. He had one of if not the best coaching staff in the league. Before that he was beaten just like every superstar player.
    yet, LeBron was two shots away from being 1-8 in the finals. Not dominant at all.

  4. #804
    Believe. i'm_still_beta's Avatar
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    yet, LeBron was two shots away from being 1-8 in the finals. Not dominant at all.
    Agree. He was 2 shots away from being 1-8.

    But what is dominance? Finals record? I don't think so. When I rate players, I don't care about things like Finals record. Impact on games is all that matters.

  5. #805
    Believe. Dirks_Finale's Avatar
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    LeBron had enough help in 2014.

    But nobody perfect. Let's look at MJ. From 1990 he had enough help. He lost 1990. From 1991-1998 even more than enough because every year except 1995 he had better team from 2-15 than other team's best player. He had one of if not the best coaching staff in the league. Before that he was beaten just like every superstar player.
    It seems to take star players take at least 6-7 years to lead their teams to les. For Jordan, it was 7 and Lebron, I think 9 years. You must admit those bulls teams were sorry as when he arrived. Dave Corzine Looked like Lebron's early Cavs teams.

    In 1990 that bulls team just wasn't ready. So I do not penalize them for not advancing. Pippen still had growing up to do, same with Grant. They were both only in their 3rd year. This wasn't a situation like Lebron had when he stepped into a loaded team with mature superstars like FMVP Wade and Bosh. Agree with you on 91-98...Bulls were clearly better than everyone when Jordan played and they had a rebounder like Grant or Rodman.

  6. #806
    Believe. Dirks_Finale's Avatar
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    Agree. He was 2 shots away from being 1-8.

    But what is dominance? Finals record? I don't think so. When I rate players, I don't care about things like Finals record. Impact on games is all that matters.
    It certainly helps your case. Duncan being 5-1--- damn near 6-0 is significant and factors into his all time ranks, imo.

  7. #807
    Believe. Dirks_Finale's Avatar
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    Are the bulls planning a 30 year reunion for their 91 le team?

    Would love to see Jordan there with Hodges, Pippen, Grant and everyone else he pissed off in the docuseries

  8. #808
    Believe. i'm_still_beta's Avatar
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    It seems to take star players take at least 6-7 years to lead their teams to les. For Jordan, it was 7 and Lebron, I think 9 years. You must admit those bulls teams were sorry as when he arrived. Dave Corzine Looked like Lebron's early Cavs teams.

    In 1990 that bulls team just wasn't ready. So I do not penalize them for not advancing. Pippen still had growing up to do, same with Grant. They were both only in their 3rd year. This wasn't a situation like Lebron had when he stepped into a loaded team with mature superstars like FMVP Wade and Bosh. Agree with you on 91-98...Bulls were clearly better than everyone when Jordan played and they had a rebounder like Grant or Rodman.
    Let's make it clear. I believe that MJ a little better than LeBron but ... Bulls front-office did a terrific job of building the team around Michael. Cavs management couldn't do the same. Media, fans started to question Lebron lack of rings. In these cir stances LeBron had to abandon the ship. If he didn't, he could of repeat KGs fate.

    What if Bulls didn't draft Pippen? What if MJ got traded to Clippers or Spurs for Robinson? How many rings for MJ? What if Pistons or Heat had 1st pick in 2003? Players can't control that. That's why I think rings should be irrelevant in GOAT discussions.
    Last edited by i'm_still_beta; 05-23-2020 at 04:16 PM.

  9. #809
    Believe. Dirks_Finale's Avatar
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    I actually don't blame him much for leaving CLE that first time. It's how he did it that made him look like a dbag.

    And we can talk about rings and how much they actually mean. Dirk's 1 ring to me is more valuable than KD's 2. And it was more impressive than 2 of Lebron's 3.

    Let's make it clear. I believe that MJ a little better than LeBron but ... Bulls front-office did a terrific job of building the team around Michael. Cavs management couldn't do the same. Media, fans started to question Lebron lack of rings. In these cir stances LeBron had to abandon the ship. If he didn't, he could of repeat KGs fate.

    What if Bulls didn't draft Pippen? What if MJ got traded to Clippers or Spurs for Robinson? How many rings for MJ? What if Pistons or Heat had 1st pick in 2003? Players can't control that. That's why I think rings should be irrelevant in GOAT discussions.

  10. #810
    HAHAHAHAHA Spurms lefty's Avatar
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    Let's make it clear. I believe that MJ a little better than LeBron but ... Bulls front-office did a terrific job of building the team around Michael. Cavs management couldn't do the same. Media, fans started to question Lebron lack of rings. In these cir stances LeBron had to abandon the ship. If he didn't, he could of repeat KGs fate.

    What if Bulls didn't draft Pippen? What if MJ got traded to Clippers or Spurs for Robinson? How many rings for MJ? What if Pistons or Heat had 1st pick in 2003? Players can't control that. That's why I think rings should be irrelevant in GOAT discussions.
    Exactly

    Jordan would have bolted if Krause didn’t build that team around him

  11. #811
    coffee's for closers FrostKing's Avatar
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    If Lebron had stayed in Cleveland, he would have stumbled into atleast another le. So his record would be 2-7 or 2-8. That is not too far off 3-6. He should have just stayed in Cleveland

  12. #812
    coffee's for closers FrostKing's Avatar
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    Losing in 5 games to an opponent he defeated the year before is a poor reflection on Lebron

    He did it twice

  13. #813
    HAHAHAHAHA Spurms lefty's Avatar
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    Losing in 5 games to an opponent he defeated the year before is a poor reflection on Lebron

    He did it twice
    Jordan would have been obliterated by both pre-Durant and Durant Warriors

    Nostalgia goggles

  14. #814
    coffee's for closers FrostKing's Avatar
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    Jordan would have been obliterated by both pre-Durant and Durant Warriors

    Nostalgia goggles
    Warriors have no answer for Kukoc

  15. #815
    HAHAHAHAHA Spurms lefty's Avatar
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    Warriors have no answer for Kukoc
    True

    Still get skull ed by GS

  16. #816
    5X ST MVP Spurtacular's Avatar
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    lefty

    He had to go. Dude was going to eliminate Dad Killer from the playoffs.


  17. #817
    HAHAHAHAHA Spurms lefty's Avatar
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    lefty

    He had to go. Dude was going to eliminate Dad Killer from the playoffs.

    Yeah that’s very su ious
    Petro did work on DeJordan and talked trash to him everytime
    Stern didn’t like that

  18. #818
    5X ST MVP Spurtacular's Avatar
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    Yeah that’s very su ious
    Petro did work on DeJordan and talked trash to him everytime
    Stern didn’t like that
    A camera crew at a car crash scene in the middle of nowhere? It's not like DP was Princess Di.

  19. #819
    HAHAHAHAHA Spurms lefty's Avatar
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    A camera crew at a car crash scene in the middle of nowhere? It's not like DP was Princess Di.
    Jordan : “at that point, it became personal to me”
    Stern : “say no more”

  20. #820
    5X ST MVP Spurtacular's Avatar
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    Jordan : “at that point, it became personal to me”
    Stern : “say no more”
    Stern probably had some friends in the CIA. Dude's a serious POS.

  21. #821
    HAHAHAHAHA Spurms lefty's Avatar
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    Stern probably had some friends in the CIA. Dude's a serious POS.
    He also told the Soviets to prevent Sabonis from joining Portland in his prime and got rid of Lewis and Bias

    Wouldn’t be surprised if he gave Magic AIDS and sent thugs to break Larry’s body

    Had to protect his cash cow

  22. #822
    Because I choose to. Neo.'s Avatar
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    Warriors have no answer for Kukoc
    they also had no answer for lebron or kyrie, yet were so much better of a team as a whole that it didnt matter, they won in 5

    and lets not act like the bulls have answers for steph klay and KD. if you have mike and pip running themselves ragged chasing steph and klay, that plays right into what they want their opponent to do

  23. #823
    coffee's for closers FrostKing's Avatar
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    they also had no answer for lebron or kyrie, yet were so much better of a team as a whole that it didnt matter, they won in 5

    and lets not act like the bulls have answers for steph klay and KD. if you have mike and pip running themselves ragged chasing steph and klay, that plays right into what they want their opponent to do
    Klay is your typical 90s shooting guard

    Durant would be guarded by Pippen and Rodman

    Curry is arguably the Warriors best angle in this matchup. He has the height to not be fully suffocated

    GS needs prime Bogut to go along with Durant but they are from different times

  24. #824
    HAHAHAHAHA Spurms lefty's Avatar
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    Klay is your typical 90s shooting guard

    Durant would be guarded by Pippen and Rodman

    Curry is arguably the Warriors best angle in this matchup. He has the height to not be fully suffocated

    GS needs prime Bogut to go along with Durant but they are from different times
    Except that Klay os a better shooter than your typical 90s shooting guard
    He is also a better defender than your typical 90s shooting guard
    Pippen and Rodman never had to guard anyone like KD

  25. #825
    coffee's for closers FrostKing's Avatar
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    Except that Klay os a better shooter than your typical 90s shooting guard
    He is also a better defender than your typical 90s shooting guard
    Pippen and Rodman never had to guard anyone like KD
    Guy who lives off mid range jumpers?

    Klay = Majerle

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