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  1. #26
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    The DJIA isn't the economy, certainly not for anyone who works for somebody else for a living. It's an index of 30 blue chip stocks, how can it credibly stand for the whole US economy?

  2. #27
    5X ST MVP Spurtacular's Avatar
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    So the economy reopens. Then what? The industries that are being hardest hit are hospitality jobs that rely on frequent close human-to-human interaction in crowded spaces (bars, restaurants, clubs, theaters, etc). Do these idiots think that once Lord Trump declares American open for business, that people are going to pack those establishments like before? No way in .
    If they're not going back anyways, then what you got to worry about?

  3. #28
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    DOW IS UP, ECONOMY IS DOING GREAT

    https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN21R3JI

  4. #29
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    I know I am seeing a big blowback from this . I have had several customers pull back on planned projects and some have closed their doors. My phone calls are about 1/4 what they normally are. Businesses are using it as their excuse not to pay their Bill's. That eventually starts to cascade and take other businesses down.

  5. #30
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    I know I am seeing a big blowback from this . I have had several customers pull back on planned projects and some have closed their doors. My phone calls are about 1/4 what they normally are. Businesses are using it as their excuse not to pay their Bill's. That eventually starts to cascade and take other businesses down.
    Yep. My tenant is not dependent on any business closing down or losing his job. He and his wife collect social security which has not stopped coming. He was already 2 months behind when this started. Rent was due on 3/23. Got half of it on 4/3 and he's stalling for the other half. Soon, it'll be 4/23 and rent will be due again.

  6. #31
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    Too Big to Fail, COVID-19 Edition:

    How Private Equity Is Winning the Coronavirus Crisis




    Thanks to the $2 trillion bipartisan bailout bill, the industry’s coronavirus losses will belong to all of us.

    among those angling for a federal handout is one of the wealthiest sectors of the American economy: private equity.

    These firms not only have a record $1.5 trillion in cash on the sidelines, waiting to be invested,

    but
    their CEOs are among America’s richest executives.

    So why should they be permitted to raid the federal Treasury in a time of crisis?

    its losses, to a remarkable degree, will belong to all of us.

    That’s because some of the major investors in private-equity funds are public pension plans;

    at Blackstone, roughly one-third of the firm’s money comes from retirement plans set up to provide for over 30 million working-class Americans

    So if Blackstone’s investments crater, the teachers, firefighters, and health care workers who are counting on those investments to generate the returns necessary to pay their pensions will suffer.

    Think of private-equity firms as the banks of the corona crisis:

    They are, for better or worse, too big to fail.

    Unlike venture capitalists, who provide start-up funds to new companies, private-equity firms generally take over existing businesses, usually by borrowing large sums of money.

    private-equity firms typically double the amount of debt relative to profits on a company’s balance sheet.

    One of the key principles behind private equity is that increased leverage

    —aka more debt—can make a business function more efficiently.

    they often overpaid for the companies they acquired, and

    loaded them up with so much debt that “even a mild economic downturn could make it nearly impossible for those companies to repay their loans,”

    companies owned by private-equity firms could simply refinance their debts at lower rates,

    thereby getting a fresh lease on life.

    ( Krugman calls them zombie companies, living dead, they're dead companies, but low interest rates keep them alive)

    https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020..._term=VYF_Hive

    So suckering pension funds into p/e's risky grubby hands, p/e has immunized itself against failure, guaranteed it will get bailed out.

    Capitalism, Capitalists.


    Last edited by boutons_deux; 04-10-2020 at 07:06 AM.

  7. #32
    SeaGOAT midnightpulp's Avatar
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    I know I am seeing a big blowback from this . I have had several customers pull back on planned projects and some have closed their doors. My phone calls are about 1/4 what they normally are. Businesses are using it as their excuse not to pay their Bill's. That eventually starts to cascade and take other businesses down.
    And that's equally as ty and greedy as anything else. If we want out of this crisis without the economy in ruins, it's going to require that we have each other's back as a society for once. I'm still looking for some coordinated and legit nationwide "small business relief" charity to donate to.

  8. #33
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    Talked to one of my customers Wednesday that works for a major chicken producer. Those guys are getting slaughtered. With restaurants shut down there is more supply than demand even though grocery store shelves may be empty. All the commercial freezer space is full of chickens already processed. Tyson and the other big boys already had to euthanize 20% of their flock because they had no place to put the birds when processed.

  9. #34
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    we have each other's back as a society for once.
    The controlling powers absolutely do not want solidarity and combined action by citizens.

    That's why the oligarchy has been busting unions for 45 years.

    United Labor stands, divided Labor (no union) falls.

    When you can't make good money because it's you alone, no union power, against the employer, when you are chained to your ty job, ty manager, ty company for the group health insurance, you STFU and take whatever is offered.

    That's one of the main reasons BigCorp blocks medicare for all.

    If people had govt health insurance and health care, then Labor could be mobile, and wouldn't put up with ty jobs and ty pay.

    Capitalism DEPENDS on Labor being oppressed into financial, fearful precarity and feckless, powerless subservience

    Any sort of cooperation among citizens, "have each other's back", gets the knee-jerk, derisive label "socialism" then the stupid, ignorant citizens who have been brain-washed, indoctrinated to Palov-ianly respond "socialism is bad"

  10. #35
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    Small business disaster program unravels because Congress wouldn't pass the increase...

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/09/b...8a776b700ac9d9

    Flooded by requests for help like never before, a federal disaster loan program that was supposed to deliver emergency relief to small businesses in just three days has run low on funding and nearly frozen up entirely. Now, business owners who applied are desperate for cash and answers about what aid, if any, they are going to receive.

    The initiative, known as the Economic Injury Disaster Loan program, is an expansion of an emergency system run by the Small Business Administration that has for years helped companies after natural disasters like hurricanes, floods and tornadoes. To speed billions of dollars in aid along, the government directly funds the loans, sparing applicants the step of finding a lender willing to work with them.

    But in the face of the pandemic, the loan program is drowning in requests. Many applicants have waited weeks for approval, with little to no information about where they stand, and others are being told they’ll get a fraction of what they expected.

    The program is supposed to offer loans of up to $2 million, but many recent applicants said the S.B.A. help line had told them that loans would be capped at $15,000 per borrower. That was backed up by a message from the agency that one applicant shared with The New York Times.

  11. #36
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    Any guesses how FAST p/e, BigCorp, BigFinance, the oligarchy will get their $Ts?

  12. #37
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    And how about the "small businesses", fully owned subsidiaries, created by BigCorp to steal Federal money intended for independent small businesses?
    Last edited by boutons_deux; 04-10-2020 at 07:52 AM.

  13. #38
    Kang Trill Clinton's Avatar
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    I'm all for having a debt jubilee. Right now is the perfect time for it.

  14. #39
    TRU 'cross mah stomach LaMarcus Bryant's Avatar
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    23K+ and rising. Economy going up not down.
    Lol 22 year old lil millenial equates market with economy

  15. #40
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    Lol 22 year old lil millenial equates market with economy
    It's cold blooded as but the stock market has figured out that the Covid19 isn't seriously impacting the "upper class". Deaths in the Bronx are 8X what they are in Manhattan.

    https://abcnews.go.com/Health/nyc-st...ry?id=69920706

  16. #41
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    The controlling powers absolutely do not want solidarity and combined action by citizens.

    That's why the oligarchy has been busting unions for 45 years.

    United Labor stands, divided Labor (no union) falls.

    When you can't make good money because it's you alone, no union power, against the employer, when you are chained to your ty job, ty manager, ty company for the group health insurance, you STFU and take whatever is offered.

    That's one of the main reasons BigCorp blocks medicare for all.

    If people had govt health insurance and health care, then Labor could be mobile, and wouldn't put up with ty jobs and ty pay.

    Capitalism DEPENDS on Labor being oppressed into financial, fearful precarity and feckless, powerless subservience

    Any sort of cooperation among citizens, "have each other's back", gets the knee-jerk, derisive label "socialism" then the stupid, ignorant citizens who have been brain-washed, indoctrinated to Palov-ianly respond "socialism is bad"
    Bou, this is such a DEFEATIST at ude. Get off this board, look around and do something to change your cir stances instead of railing against OLIGARCHY, capitalism, etc. I had no way of earning money when I CHOSE to homeschool my kids up to high school, and I found a way.

    On a side bar, this is one of the reasons why I hate Obamacare which forced/penalized young people for not carrying health insurance. When you are young (and usually healthy - I never had ANY health insurance until I was 22), that is when you should be building up your financial foundation. ACA pays for the old and sick on the backs of the young and healthy.

  17. #42
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
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    Bou, this is such a DEFEATIST at ude. Get off this board, look around and do something to change your cir stances instead of railing against OLIGARCHY, capitalism, etc. I had no way of earning money when I CHOSE to homeschool my kids up to high school, and I found a way.

    On a side bar, this is one of the reasons why I hate Obamacare which forced/penalized young people for not carrying health insurance. When you are young (and usually healthy - I never had ANY health insurance until I was 22), that is when you should be building up your financial foundation. ACA pays for the old and sick on the backs of the young and healthy.
    On the sidebar:

    Yes that’s the basic idea behind healthcare, you pay in young, you get payed back with health care when older. Shared risk. But when the profit motive is applied, shared risk may not work privately. No, I would say it has not worked. But, but... socialism... Your red team had a plan... but they lied and did not.

  18. #43
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    On the sidebar:

    Yes that’s the basic idea behind healthcare, you pay in young, you get payed back with health care when older. Shared risk. But when the profit motive is applied, shared risk may not work privately. No, I would say it has not worked. But, but... socialism... Your red team had a plan... but they lied and did not.
    With the ACA, premium variations based on age are limited to a ratio of three to one (meaning the premiums for a 64 year-old is three times the premium for a 21 year-old). Previously, premium variations based on age were more typically about five to one. Since a lot of you on this board are young, you are paying MUCH more in premiums than you did previous to ACA (not to mention HAVING to buy it or pay a penalty - before it was zeroed out).

  19. #44
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
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    With the ACA, premium variations based on age are limited to a ratio of three to one (meaning the premiums for a 64 year-old is three times the premium for a 21 year-old). Previously, premium variations based on age were more typically about five to one. Since a lot of you on this board are young, you are paying MUCH more in premiums than you did previous to ACA (not to mention HAVING to buy it or pay a penalty - before it was zeroed out).
    Sounds like auto insurance which makes sense. Old and young get penalized and pay more because per capita they cause more accidents. I don’t equate health care insurance with auto insurance necessarily. Especially when our current health care is so bad it can send a middle income hard worker into bankruptcy VERY easily.

  20. #45
    Veteran Xevious's Avatar
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    Talked to one of my customers Wednesday that works for a major chicken producer. Those guys are getting slaughtered. With restaurants shut down there is more supply than demand even though grocery store shelves may be empty. All the commercial freezer space is full of chickens already processed. Tyson and the other big boys already had to euthanize 20% of their flock because they had no place to put the birds when processed.
    That's some ing right there. Obviously I don't know the whole story, but you telling me there isn't someplace they can donate that meat to?

  21. #46
    Veteran Xevious's Avatar
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    As for the OP... I agree that there is no path to complete reopening right now. Hospitals would be hammered, people would be dying in their homes, and businesses would be shut down eventually anyway.

  22. #47
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
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    That's some ing right there. Obviously I don't know the whole story, but you telling me there isn't someplace they can donate that meat to?
    It costs money to process them and transport/keep in low temps. Probably much easier (less loss$) to just kill them.

    Come get live chickens is not gonna work.
    There is a $ motive. They got stockholders and workers to take care of.

    Capitalism clearly hits rough times this pandemic.

    So it’s a balancing act:

    Stimulus (socialism leading to cheating)
    Back to work (economy v. fewer customers and even more fear and death)
    Cont with your own favorites.

  23. #48
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    That's some ing right there. Obviously I don't know the whole story, but you telling me there isn't someplace they can donate that meat to?
    Raw chicken? Ever heard of salmonella?

  24. #49
    Believe.
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    There is a thing called -

    GREED

    that will can all of these fantasies in this thread.


    GREED will be what prevails - to the detriment of us all.

  25. #50
    Veteran Xevious's Avatar
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    Raw chicken? Ever heard of salmonella?
    Obviously not raw chicken. But the frozen/processed chicken they can't sell. Then they'd have the room to process the other chicken. But if it's financial problem, so be it. Just seems a waste.

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