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  1. #26
    Believe. Kobe'sAchilles's Avatar
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    Tbh a lot of older players don't have Jordan as their #1. And the ones that do list him as the GOAT are mainly players whose prime were in the 90s. There are exceptions of course, but I guarantee you that Magic in 1988 didn't think Jordan was a better player than him Dr. J don't have him as his #1. Gervin doesn't. Oscar doesn't. Wilt didn't and neither does Kareem. The ones running the narrative are mainly the people that lost to him in the 90s.

    Objectively why would Isaiah consider him the GOAT? Bird whooped his ass. Bird is the one who made the steal in perhaps the worst moment of Isaiah's career. When Isaiah came around, Jordan wasn't even in the league.Bird was a champion. Magic was a champion and Isiah had nothing. He wanted to be like those guys. In Isaiah's prime, Jordan was an afterthought. He broke his foot. Got swept. Got swept again. And the Bulls weren't considered a great team because they didn't win anything. When you think of the 80s, what teams do you think of? Lakers, Celtics, Pistons, 76ers, Rockets. I might put the Bulls behind even the Hawks and the Bucks. In Isaiah's mind, Jordan didn't win anything during what he believed to be the Golden Age of basketball.

    But now Isiah has to listen to the media kick him down again and again because he doesn't kiss the ring. I about threw up when Skip said that the second greatest point guard of all time, ZEKE, didn't make the Dream Team because he wasn't good enough. Dude probably fantasizes about Mike being with his wife; I'm not even sure he doesn't call out Michael's name in the middle of the horizontal dance with his lady

  2. #27
    Believe. Dirks_Finale's Avatar
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    I got Magic over Bird by a hair.

    Would be interested in a poll to see what the consensus actually is, nationwide

  3. #28
    coffee's for closers FrostKing's Avatar
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    I got Magic over Bird by a hair.

    Would be interested in a poll to see what the consensus actually is, nationwide
    Consensus nationwide
    "The black guy"


    Something doesn't add up that Lakers had Kareem and Magic and were about even with the Celtics.

    Team A
    Kareem + Bird
    Vs
    Team B
    McHale + Magic


    What happens
    Last edited by FrostKing; 05-01-2020 at 09:17 PM.

  4. #29
    Believe. Dirks_Finale's Avatar
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    Consensus nationwide
    "The black guy"


    Something doesn't add up that Lakers had Kareem and Magic and were about even with the Celtics.

    Team A
    Kareem + Bird
    Vs
    Team B
    McHale + Magic


    What happens
    He had the back end of Kareem's prime and the twilight. Not Milwaukee Kareem.

    And Parish was not exactly Joel Anthony or something, he was pretty good.

    Overall , i think Magic had a slight edge in talent on his teams..

  5. #30
    Believe. Dirks_Finale's Avatar
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    Tbh a lot of older players don't have Jordan as their #1. And the ones that do list him as the GOAT are mainly players whose prime were in the 90s. There are exceptions of course, but I guarantee you that Magic in 1988 didn't think Jordan was a better player than him Dr. J don't have him as his #1. Gervin doesn't. Oscar doesn't. Wilt didn't and neither does Kareem. The ones running the narrative are mainly the people that lost to him in the 90s.

    Objectively why would Isaiah consider him the GOAT? Bird whooped his ass. Bird is the one who made the steal in perhaps the worst moment of Isaiah's career. When Isaiah came around, Jordan wasn't even in the league.Bird was a champion. Magic was a champion and Isiah had nothing. He wanted to be like those guys. In Isaiah's prime, Jordan was an afterthought. He broke his foot. Got swept. Got swept again. And the Bulls weren't considered a great team because they didn't win anything. When you think of the 80s, what teams do you think of? Lakers, Celtics, Pistons, 76ers, Rockets. I might put the Bulls behind even the Hawks and the Bucks. In Isaiah's mind, Jordan didn't win anything during what he believed to be the Golden Age of basketball.

    But now Isiah has to listen to the media kick him down again and again because he doesn't kiss the ring. I about threw up when Skip said that the second greatest point guard of all time, ZEKE, didn't make the Dream Team because he wasn't good enough. Dude probably fantasizes about Mike being with his wife; I'm not even sure he doesn't call out Michael's name in the middle of the horizontal dance with his lady
    I've been thinking about this lately and I think you are right. Whatever era they played in is what era they will choose from as their GOAT pick.

    Few exceptions here or there....like Isiah who picks Lebron just to piss off Jordan. I don't think he actually means it, he's trolling

  6. #31
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    I've been thinking about this lately and I think you are right. Whatever era they played in is what era they will choose from as their GOAT pick.

    Few exceptions here or there....like Isiah who picks Lebron just to piss off Jordan. I don't think he actually means it, he's trolling
    Or maybe he objectively thinks Lebron is better than Jordan

    Isiah is 3-1 against Jordan, I think he’s ok

  7. #32
    6X ST MVP
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    Tbh a lot of older players don't have Jordan as their #1. And the ones that do list him as the GOAT are mainly players whose prime were in the 90s. There are exceptions of course, but I guarantee you that Magic in 1988 didn't think Jordan was a better player than him Dr. J don't have him as his #1. Gervin doesn't. Oscar doesn't. Wilt didn't and neither does Kareem.
    Bird doesn't either despite the myth people like to perpetuate.

  8. #33
    6X ST MVP
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    Consensus nationwide
    "The black guy"


    Something doesn't add up that Lakers had Kareem and Magic and were about even with the Celtics.

    Team A
    Kareem + Bird
    Vs
    Team B
    McHale + Magic


    What happens

    81-84/85; Kareem better than McHale.

    By 86, McHale was better. But that was one whole season. By the 87 playoffs, McHale had a career altering foot fracture.

    Also, let's note that Earvin had Worthy, an athletic wing/big. Bird never had that type of talent to work with. He would have with Bias, but then he died.

    Bias dying while the Lakers got M. Thompson for peanuts and AC Green in the draft was a gamechanger. Up to that point, Bird was 3-3 with Magic even being in the much stronger conference and the Lakers on league welfare.

  9. #34
    Believe. Dirks_Finale's Avatar
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    To be fair, Pippen and Grant were not mature players for the first two series they played in. Jordan was armed with butter knives in those series. And everybody knows it.

    Or maybe he objectively thinks Lebron is better than Jordan

    Isiah is 3-1 against Jordan, I think he’s ok

  10. #35
    Believe. Dirks_Finale's Avatar
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    When Bird says Jordan is actually God in disguise, I think it's a safe assumption.

    What have you heard to the contrary?

    Maybe he is like Trump and plays both sides of the issues. No firm convictions.

    Bird doesn't either despite the myth people like to perpetuate.

  11. #36
    Winner in a losers circle 140's Avatar
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    Here is what Thomas told Sports Illustrated following Jordan’s retirement from the Bulls in 1999:

    “From all the players I have seen and played against, he’s definitely the best player ever. A lot of people like to argue this guy was better or this guy was better. But every player you think of there was some weaknesses and deficiencies in their game. He has the complete package in all facets of his offensive game, and when you break him down defensively, he’s also the best defensive player in the game. ... He should be remembered as the greatest of all time.”

    It seems his opinion has changed with time, just as he has adjusted his reasoning for not shaking Jordan’s hand after the 1991 Eastern Conference finals. Being called “an a--hole” can make you rethink quite a bit.
    https://sports.yahoo.com/isiah-thoma...213947721.html

  12. #37
    Because I choose to. Neo.'s Avatar
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    Consensus nationwide
    "The black guy"


    Something doesn't add up that Lakers had Kareem and Magic and were about even with the Celtics.

    Team A
    Kareem + Bird
    Vs
    Team B
    McHale + Magic


    What happens
    i firmly believe if you replace magic with bird on those showtime teams, they win 6-7 championships

    bird was a flat out better basketball player. but since magic has "ringzzzzzzzzzzz" everyone wants to give him the edge

    but just watching the two of them, taking rings and accomplishments out of the picture, its unquestionable bird was more skilled, more clutch, and at least equal if not a better leader. magic simply had much more talented teams, and was in the weaker conference by far

  13. #38
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    When Bird says Jordan is actually God in disguise, I think it's a safe assumption.

    What have you heard to the contrary?

    Maybe he is like Trump and plays both sides of the issues. No firm convictions.
    I mean Bird also praised Harden and Thompson so anything is possible

  14. #39
    6X ST MVP
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    When Bird says Jordan is actually God in disguise, I think it's a safe assumption.
    It's not. It's total hyperbole. Jordan nut huggers need to stop pretending that's Bird's endorsement of him as GOAT.
    He was being complimentary about the player for the one game he just played.

  15. #40
    Veteran LkrFan's Avatar
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    I never said Cs were not loaded

    I said the Lakers had a better bench

    The West was most of the time so the Lakers were more rested , healthier come Finals time

    Celtics had to battle Bucks, Sixers, Pistons in the East; tougher opposition and longer series and injuries like it was the case in 87 (add to that the fact the Lakers were more athletic and faster)

    Bird wasn't just a better scorer, he was a better team defender, better passer -yes better passer than Magic, Magic mostly made 3 on 1 fast breaks flashy but easy assists where as Bird threaded the needle and made more difficult assists

    Plus Magic assist stats wehre inflated in half court : easy entry pass to Kareem, dribble dribble, swings left, swings right, sky hook, Chick Hear orgasm, assist Magic , LMAO

    Bird was more clutch as well and I know you are going to bring the Jr Skyhook from 87, but career wise it's Bird no question
    Magic: 9 Finals appearances, 5 rangs. Beat Bird twice, beat the Bad Boys twice, beat Philly.

    Bird: 5 Finals appearances, 3 rangs. Beat Magic once, beat the Rockets twice

    Advantage: Magic Johnson

  16. #41
    Believe. i'm_still_beta's Avatar
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    Magic: 9 Finals appearances, 5 rangs. Beat Bird twice, beat the Bad Boys twice, beat Philly.

    Bird: 5 Finals appearances, 3 rangs. Beat Magic once, beat the Rockets twice

    Advantage: Magic Johnson
    But team sports and Magic played in weaker conference. Key differences between them is that Bird was much better shooter and smarter defender

  17. #42
    6X ST MVP
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    Magic called Bird the greatest basketball player ever at his retirement ceremony only weeks before that goat comment to Jordan.

    Real Magic said Bird was GOAT.
    Paid-off Magic said Jordan was GOAT.

  18. #43
    Veteran LkrFan's Avatar
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    But team sports and Magic played in weaker conference. Key differences between them is that Bird was much better shooter and smarter defender
    He beat the "better conference" 5 times in a decade. He beat your boy TWICE in the FinalsPERID

  19. #44
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    But team sports and Magic played in weaker conference. Key differences between them is that Bird was much better shooter and smarter defender
    Magic called Bird the greatest basketball player ever at his retirement ceremony only weeks before that goat comment to Jordan.

    Real Magic said Bird was GOAT.
    Paid-off Magic said Jordan was GOAT.

  20. #45
    Believe. Dirks_Finale's Avatar
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    He beat the "better conference" 5 times in a decade. He beat your boy TWICE in the FinalsPERID

  21. #46
    6X ST MVP
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    He beat the "better conference" 5 times in a decade. He beat your boy TWICE in the FinalsPERID
    By Stern stealing Game 5 from Boston in 85 and his company men stealing Game 4 in Boston in 87. Not to mention 88 was stolen from the Pistons. Lakers weren't really a championship team after 80 and 82. And those were weaker years for the 80's frankly.

  22. #47
    Take the fcking keys away baseline bum's Avatar
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    Kareem and Larry, sure. Magic, no.

    Isiah glossing over that his Pistons won after Lakers/Celtics were finished winning les too. He wouldn't be a 2-time Champ in the early/mid 80s
    Meh Detroit came a phantom foul away from beating the 88 Lakers. I don't think they'd have much of a chance against the 83 Sixers or 86 Celtics, but the Pistons' 89 team would have a great shot in any other year that decade. That team was deep and had so many quality bigs. Very underrated IMO.

  23. #48
    Take the fcking keys away baseline bum's Avatar
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    And the Celtics weren't loaded too? There's a reason why MJ didn't make it out of the EC until Bird's back went out.

    That 86 Celtics team is 2nd only to my 87 Lakers, all-time. Yes, over your 2014 Spurs, over my 2001 Lakers and all the Dubs recent championship teams.

    Bird was a better scorer, that's it. Rebounding is a wash, and Magic was a better floor general (leader). That's it for me at least.
    Bird has more T-cells too and didn't have the gay gene to pass to his kid.

  24. #49
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    By Stern stealing Game 5 from Boston in 85 and his company men stealing Game 4 in Boston in 87. Not to mention 88 was stolen from the Pistons. Lakers weren't really a championship team after 80 and 82. And those were weaker years for the 80's frankly.
    True true

  25. #50
    Believe. i'm_still_beta's Avatar
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    He beat the "better conference" 5 times in a decade. He beat your boy TWICE in the FinalsPERID
    Lakers did it. Not Magic alone. It's not tennis or boxing

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