Cowboys sign Andy Dalton

[spurraider21]

that's more of a "mediocre" range than decent. decent is more like 9-11 range. Remember anything less than 9 wins is a failure because the previous HC was a chronic 8-8 every year with a well above average roster. This roster is built to win now. The OL are in their prime right now. Elliott is a cap casualty in 2 years. They'll also eventually have to choose between Cooper and Gallup, though McCarthy has been known for keeping 3 expensive WRs in Green Bay... so that means cuts elsewhere, perhaps ILB (a notorious gaping hole in the McCarthy Packers era).

i dont care about the semantics of mediocre vs decent ... i gave you my projected win range.

the roster on offense is just fine, and it wasn't really the issue last year. they should be at least as good if not better than we've seen in recent years. i think their defense will be problematic.

[Millennial_Messiah]

i dont care about the semantics of mediocre vs decent ... i gave you my projected win range.

the roster on offense is just fine, and it wasn't really the issue last year. they should be at least as good if not better than we've seen in recent years. i think their defense will be problematic.

special teams, moreso than defense, cost them last year... and the offense's inability to move the ball in late game clutch-drive situations cost them no less than 4 games (Saints, Vikings, Patriots, Eagles). Prescott just isn't clutch.

[spurraider21]

special teams, moreso than defense, cost them last year... and the offense's inability to move the ball in late game clutch-drive situations cost them no less than 4 games (Saints, Vikings, Patriots, Eagles). Prescott just isn't clutch.

defense will be worse this year than last year, is what i'm saying

offense will be fine, Dak will get paid.

[Millennial_Messiah]

defense will be worse this year than last year, is what i'm saying

offense will be fine, Dak will get paid.

I don't know about worse. If LVE, Aldob Smith, Randy Gregory, (Crawford hopefully will be cap cut), the rookie DT, Aldon Smith, and the new rookie CBs (who actually are tall, long AND get INTs unlike Byron No-Ball Jones) do better... also Ha-Ha Clinton Dix is a big upgrade at starting safety. You can have Jeff Heath, he's lousy at everything except special teams.

Can't pay $30+ million a year long term to a 4th round talent QB who goes 0/4 in late game do-or-die drives (in his CONTRACT year, no less). No, sir. no.

[Blake]

Tank? Dalton with this Cowboy roster is easily good for 10-6 or better. Think Tannehill 2.0 replacing Mariota (Dak). He's miles better and more experienced than Prescott.

[Millennial_Messiah]

did Dak your wife, tbh?

[gambit1990]

solid move tbh. i always hated the bengals.

semi surprised the patriots didn't take a flyer on him.

[spurraider21]

I don't know about worse. If LVE, Aldob Smith, Randy Gregory, (Crawford hopefully will be cap cut), the rookie DT, Aldon Smith, and the new rookie CBs (who actually are tall, long AND get INTs unlike Byron No-Ball Jones) do better... also Ha-Ha Clinton Dix is a big upgrade at starting safety. You can have Jeff Heath, he's lousy at everything except special teams.

Can't pay $30+ million a year long term to a 4th round talent QB who goes 0/4 in late game do-or-die drives (in his CONTRACT year, no less). No, sir. no.

Ha-Ha is nice. will replace heath. better as a coverage safety, not as good in the box.

you have aldon smith written twice, and he hasn't played for several years. he's over 30. gregory also didnt play last year and was ok but nothing special in 2018. he's also going to be 28 soon, so he's not some young pup thats going to develop much. i dont think either guy can adequately replace what you're losing in Quinn.

gerald mccoy does replace maliek collins

rookie corners go through growing pains, and nobody they got can reasonably be expected to be anywhere near as good this season as Byron Jones was last season

defense will be an issue

[Mark Celibate]

expecting anything from Randy Gregory would be like expecting anything from Greg Oden tbh. You just know it's only a matter of time before he gets suspended again imo.

It's a shame, because when he has played he's actually been pretty effective which is shocking due to the fact that he's only played in like 10% of their regular season games since he's been drafted.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Ha-Ha is nice. will replace heath. better as a coverage safety, not as good in the box.

you have aldon smith written twice, and he hasn't played for several years. he's over 30. gregory also didnt play last year and was ok but nothing special in 2018. he's also going to be 28 soon, so he's not some young pup thats going to develop much. i dont think either guy can adequately replace what you're losing in Quinn.

gerald mccoy does replace maliek collins

rookie corners go through growing pains, and nobody they got can reasonably be expected to be anywhere near as good this season as Byron Jones was last season

defense will be an issue

McCoy and Poe are far better than Collins and Woods, and Gallimore is expected to be Collins' long term replacement. Fine there. I agree Aldon Smith isn't the 19 sack a year terror he was before the suspensions but he could be able to replace Quinn. Gregory was better than Quinn overall in 2018, similar sack rate on a per game basis and better against the run, a handful of bad untimely penalties though. I don't think Quinn is a great starter, he's a great situational pass rusher but that's it.

As far as the secondary, Clinton-Dix is better overall than Heath; though he had maybe the most polarizing game in NFL playoff history for that position in the Jan 2015 championship game at Seattle. Can be kind of a jeckyll and hyde player. Heath sucked both in coverage and in the box, let's not act like he was a Kam Chancellor against the run either. Guys ran thru him all the time and he was the "spy" guy who gave up the playoff loss-sealing first down on 3rd & long to .....Jared Goff with his legs of all people.

Chidobe Awuzie and Jourdan Lewis are both on contract years. Lewis is the better pure CB of the two and he'll finally get to be a full time starter. Awuzie should play more of a Tyrann Mathieu role since he is much more of a zone, blitzing and great tackling guy for his size but tends to lose pretty consistently in man coverage.

[Millennial_Messiah]

expecting anything from Randy Gregory would be like expecting anything from Greg Oden tbh. You just know it's only a matter of time before he gets suspended again imo.

It's a shame, because when he has played he's actually been pretty effective which is shocking due to the fact that he's only played in like 10% of their regular season games since he's been drafted.

I thought that same thing going into the 2018 season.......... but he was actually legitimately good that year. If not for the ill-timed penalties, like the annoying encroachment on 3rd & 4, the roughing the punter on 4th & 13, etc. he could have been considered better than just "good".

He still has time to be a pro bowler and his mileage and physical wear and tear is low, think Grant Hill who had a later prime... Jason Peters in Philly, etc. And it's been suspensions, not injuries, that has kept him off the field. He's not going to have the DeMarcus Ware / Von Miller like career that he was capable of prior to the suspensions, but he can still be a force.

[spurraider21]

McCoy and Poe are far better than Collins and Woods, and Gallimore is expected to be Collins' long term replacement. Fine there. I agree Aldon Smith isn't the 19 sack a year terror he was before the suspensions but he could be able to replace Quinn. Gregory was better than Quinn overall in 2018, similar sack rate on a per game basis and better against the run, a handful of bad untimely penalties though. I don't think Quinn is a great starter, he's a great situational pass rusher but that's it.

As far as the secondary, Clinton-Dix is better overall than Heath; though he had maybe the most polarizing game in NFL playoff history for that position in the Jan 2015 championship game at Seattle. Can be kind of a jeckyll and hyde player. Heath sucked both in coverage and in the box, let's not act like he was a Kam Chancellor against the run either. Guys ran thru him all the time and he was the "spy" guy who gave up the playoff loss-sealing first down on 3rd & long to .....Jared Goff with his legs of all people.

Chidobe Awuzie and Jourdan Lewis are both on contract years. Lewis is the better pure CB of the two and he'll finally get to be a full time starter. Awuzie should play more of a Tyrann Mathieu role since he is much more of a zone, blitzing and great tackling guy for his size but tends to lose pretty consistently in man coverage.

talk about hyperbole

theres a wide gap between Ha-Ha and Kam Chancellor as it relates to run support

Heath was out of his depths as a full time starter, imo, but there are things he does better than Ha-Ha. he typically graded out serviceably with PFF, and last season was #1 in the league in tackling efficiency (least missed tackles relative to tackle opportunities) among safeties. heath will be a special teamer for us and backup SS to Jonathan Abram

[BackHome]

This is not a super bowl team to many issues on defense and Dak is not a top 5 quarterback. Add to the fact that he just lost his brother to suicide is going to make it real tough on him and his family. I wouldn’t be surprised if he just wants a change of scenery and asks for a trade.

[KobesAchilles]

Dallas is doing some stupid tbh. Paying Zeke the new contract after he boycotted the offseason. If you were gonna pay him anyways, might as well have had him involved in offseason work outs and OTA. Paying that defensive guy like $110 for no reason. 100 million for Cooper The guy is a quitter. Franchising Dak is the only smart move he’s done. Cowboys ain’t going anywhere this year now that Fredrick retired.

[Millennial_Messiah]

This is not a super bowl team to many issues on defense and Dak is not a top 5 quarterback. Add to the fact that he just lost his brother to suicide is going to make it real tough on him and his family. I wouldn’t be surprised if he just wants a change of scenery and asks for a trade.

And I'd grant it to him. Trade him + a 4th round comp pick to Jacksonville for next year's 1st, he'll get to stay in a state with no state income taxes and remain close to the family he has left.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Dallas is doing some stupid tbh. Paying Zeke the new contract after he boycotted the offseason. If you were gonna pay him anyways, might as well have had him involved in offseason work outs and OTA. Paying that defensive guy like $110 for no reason. 100 million for Cooper The guy is a quitter. Franchising Dak is the only smart move he’s done. Cowboys ain’t going anywhere this year now that Fredrick retired.

Eh, Frederick hasn't been really above average for a starting center since 2016. He's been injured or ill ever since and it was his time to go... Too soon indeed, but Looney was just fine in 2018 and we drafted his long term replacement in Biadasz who went to the same school as Frederick and was ranked as the #1 center in college football until he got hurt last year and guys like Ruiz stated becoming names

[Millennial_Messiah]

talk about hyperbole

theres a wide gap between Ha-Ha and Kam Chancellor as it relates to run support

Heath was out of his depths as a full time starter, imo, but there are things he does better than Ha-Ha. he typically graded out serviceably with PFF, and last season was #1 in the league in tackling efficiency (least missed tackles relative to tackle opportunities) among safeties. heath will be a special teamer for us and backup SS to Jonathan Abram

Heath kicks ass on special teams, blocked a punt or two and he's knocked out several guys, including almost literally killing Seattle's first Lockette in the same calendar year he got Malcolm Butlered. But he's godawful at defense. Don't know what PFF was looking at last year but his angles in run support are atrocious, he's solid at making tackles AFTER a nice catch for a first down (I'll give him credit for that) but he's an absolute matador in zone, and don't ask him to be a spy either. Hope Abram gets healthy, I guess.

But hey, he made Carr fumble in the endzone at the end of a game near the end of a meaningless regular season for both sides so that's cool I guess.

HHCD.. is...polarizing. He'll make the most fantastic acrobatic interceptions and then, in same game watch an absolute gimme pick go right through his hands, or stare at a rainbow fadeaway prayer on a 2 point conversion attempt and simply watch the tight end catch it instead of making a play on the ball to at least break it up (or, ya know, actually catch it, take it back for 2 the other way and win the game).

[spurraider21]

Heath kicks ass on special teams, blocked a punt or two and he's knocked out several guys, including almost literally killing Seattle's first Lockette in the same calendar year he got Malcolm Butlered. But he's godawful at defense. Don't know what PFF was looking at last year but his angles in run support are atrocious, he's solid at making tackles AFTER a nice catch for a first down (I'll give him credit for that) but he's an absolute matador in zone, and don't ask him to be a spy either. Hope Abram gets healthy, I guess.

But hey, he made Carr fumble in the endzone at the end of a game near the end of a meaningless regular season for both sides so that's cool I guess.

HHCD.. is...polarizing. He'll make the most fantastic acrobatic interceptions and then, in same game watch an absolute gimme pick go right through his hands, or stare at a rainbow fadeaway prayer on a 2 point conversion attempt and simply watch the tight end catch it instead of making a play on the ball to at least break it up (or, ya know, actually catch it, take it back for 2 the other way and win the game).

Abram is fine. it was a shoulder injury, not something like an achilles/hamstring/ankle/back that would have you worried about his recovery 8 months later. the question is if he's a real player. still unproven. first round pick who got hurt during his first game. still, he's the presumptive starter and Heath is the backup SS and will be a special teamer first. and if we have another injury and have to trot Heath out there, he's still serviceable, not a disaster waiting to happen

Ha Ha has good ball skills which is why he's a playmaker but he's not a very explosive athlete. that's why he's inconsistent.

[slick'81]

Bye bye cooper rush

[Millennial_Messiah]

Abram is fine. it was a shoulder injury, not something like an achilles/hamstring/ankle/back that would have you worried about his recovery 8 months later. the question is if he's a real player. still unproven. first round pick who got hurt during his first game. still, he's the presumptive starter and Heath is the backup SS and will be a special teamer first. and if we have another injury and have to trot Heath out there, he's still serviceable, not a disaster waiting to happen

Ha Ha has good ball skills which is why he's a playmaker but he's not a very explosive athlete. that's why he's inconsistent.

HHCD is a well above average athlete (not a freak like Derwin James, but well above average athlete) for a safety, and as you mentioned great ball skills, that's why he was taken in the mid-1st in 2014, well before the spot Abram was taken last year. Heath was either a late pick or undrafted IIRC. So it's a massive upgrade in any case.

Still getting Abram back will be an upgrade for the Raiders over anyone they had last year. Still should have picked Jeudy if they wanted a more true Antonio Brown replacement. They had Antonio Brown and Deandre Hopkins prototypes on the board and they picked JJ Nelson. Eh

[SpursforSix]

Dallas is doing some stupid tbh. Paying Zeke the new contract after he boycotted the offseason. If you were gonna pay him anyways, might as well have had him involved in offseason work outs and OTA. Paying that defensive guy like $110 for no reason. 100 million for Cooper The guy is a quitter. Franchising Dak is the only smart move he’s done. Cowboys ain’t going anywhere this year now that Fredrick retired.

It'll probably be hard to definitively prove this because he'll do fine and time will pass. But this was the worst move they've made in terms of value for a player and how it affects the other players you can't add.
What makes it worse is that they just had several examples of why you don't do this. The big 2 being Gurley and Johnson.

I don't mind the Cooper signing. If you're committing to Dak, you need someone who can get open. And Cooper's one of the best route runners. Dak needs big windows and Cooper is among the best at getting open. And they have some outs with his salary. I don't think Cooper is a quitter. I just think he comes across as not giving a . And I think the injuries last year did hold him back.

[Millennial_Messiah]

It'll probably be hard to definitively prove this because he'll do fine and time will pass. But this was the worst move they've made in terms of value for a player and how it affects the other players you can't add.
What makes it worse is that they just had several examples of why you don't do this. The big 2 being Gurley and Johnson.

I don't mind the Cooper signing. If you're committing to Dak, you need someone who can get open. And Cooper's one of the best route runners. Dak needs big windows and Cooper is among the best at getting open. And they have some outs with his salary. I don't think Cooper is a quitter. I just think he comes across as not giving a . And I think the injuries last year did hold him back.

& the counter-example being the Steelers doing just fine when they had to replace Bell (but not Brown AND their starting rapey QB).

Zeke will do fine, but realistically how much should you pay a guy who runs for 4.x YPC and isn't a real home run threat that he was in 2016 before the suspensions.

[spurraider21]

HHCD is a well above average athlete (not a freak like Derwin James, but well above average athlete) for a safety, and as you mentioned great ball skills, that's why he was taken in the mid-1st in 2014, well before the spot Abram was taken last year. Heath was either a late pick or undrafted IIRC. So it's a massive upgrade in any case.

By what measure is he well above average?

Still getting Abram back will be an upgrade for the Raiders over anyone they had last year. Still should have picked Jeudy if they wanted a more true Antonio Brown replacement. They had Antonio Brown and Deandre Hopkins prototypes on the board and they picked JJ Nelson. Eh

Pretty disingenuous to use the ceilings for jeudy/lamb but the floor for Ruggs in your analysis

[SpursforSix]

& the counter-example being the Steelers doing just fine when they had to replace Bell (but not Brown AND their starting rapey QB).

Zeke will do fine, but realistically how much should you pay a guy who runs for 4.x YPC and isn't a real home run threat that he was in 2016 before the suspensions.

This is actually a pretty accurate post. And there's many examples of decent RBs putting up good numbers behind the right O-line or in the right scheme. It's just not a position you have to pay for.
And on the other side, if you have a ty O-line, no running back in the world is going to make a big enough difference to make up for it.
The extra money you have to pay a top 3 back doesn't correlate to being a top 3 running team.

[Millennial_Messiah]

This is actually a pretty accurate post. And there's many examples of decent RBs putting up good numbers behind the right O-line or in the right scheme. It's just not a position you have to pay for.
And on the other side, if you have a ty O-line, no running back in the world is going to make a big enough difference to make up for it.
The extra money you have to pay a top 3 back doesn't correlate to being a top 3 running team.

Exactly. Unless you're playing Madden ultimate team where you can run side to side every time with a 98 overall running back with 63 overall offensive linemen and save salary cap room. But in the real NFL you have to have the blocking. Cowboys have one of the best OL's in football with 3 legit pro bowlers. Pollard rushed for well over 100 yards on a reasonably low amount of carries the only game of the season he got actual playing time. And he was drafted in the 4th round.

Ramsey, Jack, or trade back.... was my motto going into Spring 2016. One team ended up somehow with both Ramsey and Jack. We picked before them and instead ended up with a halfback with off field drama who was amazing his rookie year and has been just above average ever since, nothing super special.

Imagine if we had had Ramsey instead for roughly the same second-contract price. And serviceable RBs like the ones the Patriots, Chiefs and other teams use behind our elite OL. Would have been much better financial business management.