Page 2 of 11 FirstFirst 123456 ... LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 255
  1. #26
    Go Spurs Go!! dbreiden83080's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Post Count
    20,158
    No Def Not sorry.. I love Manu but no way... So for that to be true Manu is a better player than the following on this list..

    Robert Parish
    Willis Reed
    Bob McAdoo

    They got Bernard King at 69 and Pistol Pete at 68..

    Sorry Guys Manu is not better than really any of those players..

    I'd say he and Tony are both top 100 players..

  2. #27
    Go Spurs Go!! dbreiden83080's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Post Count
    20,158
    Manu did not have the individual stats or all star games and his success is tied with team success. Do not confuse individual performance with team performance. Iverson was way better. Spurs win more les with Gervin instead of Manu on the roster during the Duncan years. Manu is fortunate to play with Duncan. Top 58 is too generous for him. And those who are claiming Manu is better than Robinson and Gervin, no way even close to those guys.
    I agree.. People love Manu. I love Manu. But playing for Pop, and with Duncan is why he is going to the HOF.. Manu had he been drafted and played for the Clippers for example would have burnt out with injuries, and heavy minutes.. The NBA career would have been pretty short.. And you have to rank guys like AI ahead of him that won regular season MVP, and carried teams on their backs to a finals run. That's just fair...

  3. #28
    Veteran Killakobe81's Avatar
    My Team
    Los Angeles Lakers
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Post Count
    36,551
    I agree.. People love Manu. I love Manu. But playing for Pop, and with Duncan is why he is going to the HOF.. Manu had he been drafted and played for the Clippers for example would have burnt out with injuries, and heavy minutes.. The NBA career would have been pretty short.. And you have to rank guys like AI ahead of him that won regular season MVP, and carried teams on their backs to a finals run. That's just fair...
    To close a big game... Im taking manu over Harden, Nash, AI. I actually enjoy his game more than any of those three tbh but for a full season no way do Spurs not trade Fino for any of those guys prime vs prime. We get he is the better fit but those guys were franchise carrying stars who never had a Duncan to anchor the paint for them...

  4. #29
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Post Count
    44,651
    No Def Not sorry.. I love Manu but no way... So for that to be true Manu is a better player than the following on this list..

    Robert Parish
    Willis Reed
    Bob McAdoo

    They got Bernard King at 69 and Pistol Pete at 68..

    Sorry Guys Manu is not better than really any of those players..

    I'd say he and Tony are both top 100 players..
    In which things isn't he better than those guys you named? Shooting, passing, defense, clutchness, IQ, leadership? You tell me. Give me an explanation other than "he didn't average as many points".

  5. #30
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Post Count
    44,651
    I can't ever see Manu as a #1 option on a team that could have been a consistent top-4 seed in the West during the era he played. He had first ballot HOF talent but his body wouldn't have been able to handle that kind of load playing 35-40 minutes a night and being the guy you had to go to on every possession. It makes it really hard to place him on these kind of lists because he's absolutely elite if you need someone to carry you the last two minutes of a playoff game (assuming he hasn't been burnt out in the first 46 minutes) but he's not the guy to carry you the entire game or the entire season. I honestly don't know where the I'd rank Manu, just glad he was here because he was an incredible assassin to complent Tim who was the horse that carried the team.
    Deron Williams, Carlos Boozer, Carmelo Anthony, LaMarcus Aldridge, Marc Gasol are just some of the "number one guys" to have gotten multiple top 4 finishes during the "Manu era" west, tbh.

    6 foot nothing, 160 pounds on soaking wet clothes Steve Nash won B2B MVP's during that era. I don't know guys, I always thought the whole Manu "durability" issues were overblown. It's just one of those things one guy comes up with one day and for some reason everyone sticks with despite not having much proof to back it up. I don't know many athletes with durability issues that played professionally from age 18 to age 42, tbh.

    Heck, besides, the whole "carrying a franchise during an entire season" thing has proven to be a bit overrated too, tbh. If not, just ask mr load management.

  6. #31
    Chopper Ed Helicopter Jones's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Post Count
    13,997
    I agree that I'd put Manu over a lot of the guys ahead of him.

    The only knock you could really put on Manu is that with how he played the game he was never able to play tons of minutes. Of course, as the game has evolved, that really doesn't matter anymore. Everybody is load-managing.

  7. #32
    Go Spurs Go!! dbreiden83080's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Post Count
    20,158
    In which things isn't he better than those guys you named? Shooting, passing, defense, clutchness, IQ, leadership? You tell me. Give me an explanation other than "he didn't average as many points".
    Parish would be close. He played with stacked talent. But Willis Reed for example was a franchise big man. Manu do you think he is a franchise player? He made the All Star team twice.. He was the 2nd maybe 3rd wheel on the Spurs. Tony gets shunned around here in the midst of the Manu love fest.. Had Manu not been on the Spurs it's a short career brother. Pop kept him healthy. And playing with a top 5 all time player helped just a little with the rings. I am not putting him above franchise level players, because he won rings with Tim Duncan.. We got some idiots saying he is better than AI.. Which is hilarious.. Lillard is 72. He's having a better career than Manu.. He just didn't play with TD.. It's easy to say "He would have averaged 25 a game" Well he didn't..

  8. #33
    Spurs fan in Las Vegas Drom John's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Post Count
    3,675
    1) 58th in NBA. European and International play does not count.
    2) Playing time. I'm not investigating, but I predict Ginobili is #1 among all players with his minutes played or less.
    3) 71st in WS, which is quality * PT stat.
    4) 20th in Playoff WS, which helps recent players with the expanded playoffs.
    5) ESPN's and Spurstalk has a recency bias.

  9. #34
    Go Spurs Go!! dbreiden83080's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Post Count
    20,158
    Deron Williams, Carlos Boozer, Carmelo Anthony, LaMarcus Aldridge, Marc Gasol are just some of the "number one guys" to have gotten multiple top 4 finishes during the "Manu era" west, tbh.

    6 foot nothing, 160 pounds on soaking wet clothes Steve Nash won B2B MVP's during that era. I don't know guys, I always thought the whole Manu "durability" issues were overblown. It's just one of those things one guy comes up with one day and for some reason everyone sticks with despite not having much proof to back it up. I don't know many athletes with durability issues that played professionally from age 18 to age 42, tbh.

    Heck, besides, the whole "carrying a franchise during an entire season" thing has proven to be a bit overrated too, tbh. If not, just ask mr load management.
    Are you serious? He's 31 years old, and Pop has Manu playing 26 MPG.. That's why he lasted so long. Manu from ages 26-30 on another team playing about 40 MPG as the main option.. Driving to the rim getting hammered.. Good luck with the durability..

  10. #35
    Go Spurs Go!! dbreiden83080's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Post Count
    20,158
    I can't ever see Manu as a #1 option on a team that could have been a consistent top-4 seed in the West during the era he played. He had first ballot HOF talent but his body wouldn't have been able to handle that kind of load playing 35-40 minutes a night and being the guy you had to go to on every possession. It makes it really hard to place him on these kind of lists because he's absolutely elite if you need someone to carry you the last two minutes of a playoff game (assuming he hasn't been burnt out in the first 46 minutes) but he's not the guy to carry you the entire game or the entire season. I honestly don't know where the I'd rank Manu, just glad he was here because he was an incredible assassin to complent Tim who was the horse that carried the team.
    I agree.. Carrying the load is very hard. You can't just average it out per 36, and say "He would have been the man"

  11. #36
    BLACK LIVES MATTER Play Boban's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Post Count
    5,005
    I agree.. People love Manu. I love Manu. But playing for Pop, and with Duncan is why he is going to the HOF.. Manu had he been drafted and played for the Clippers for example would have burnt out with injuries, and heavy minutes.. The NBA career would have been pretty short.. And you have to rank guys like AI ahead of him that won regular season MVP, and carried teams on their backs to a finals run. That's just fair...
    HOF worthy shut take

  12. #37
    BLACK LIVES MATTER Play Boban's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Post Count
    5,005
    Are you serious? He's 31 years old, and Pop has Manu playing 26 MPG.. That's why he lasted so long. Manu from ages 26-30 on another team playing about 40 MPG as the main option.. Driving to the rim getting hammered.. Good luck with the durability..
    No one plays 40 mpg anymore. Quit living in the past

  13. #38
    Go Spurs Go!! dbreiden83080's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Post Count
    20,158
    No one plays 40 mpg anymore. Quit living in the past
    Is Manu playing Today? Or did he play 17 years ago?

  14. #39
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Post Count
    99,904
    I don'T hate Kobe anymore after seeing this




  15. #40
    BLACK LIVES MATTER Play Boban's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Post Count
    5,005
    Is Manu playing Today? Or did he play 17 years ago?


    Kobe barely played more than 40 mpg who cares

  16. #41
    Go Spurs Go!! dbreiden83080's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Post Count
    20,158


    Kobe barely played more than 40 mpg who cares
    As has been mentioned It's hard to carry that offensive load for 10 years or more.. Manu never had to do it.. We could have him handle the ball in the last 2 minutes of big games. Because he had something left..

  17. #42
    Groundhog Day TDfan2007's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Post Count
    8,091
    I can't ever see Manu as a #1 option on a team that could have been a consistent top-4 seed in the West during the era he played. He had first ballot HOF talent but his body wouldn't have been able to handle that kind of load playing 35-40 minutes a night and being the guy you had to go to on every possession. It makes it really hard to place him on these kind of lists because he's absolutely elite if you need someone to carry you the last two minutes of a playoff game (assuming he hasn't been burnt out in the first 46 minutes) but he's not the guy to carry you the entire game or the entire season. I honestly don't know where the I'd rank Manu, just glad he was here because he was an incredible assassin to complent Tim who was the horse that carried the team.
    Agreed. He's very tough to rank for a variety of reasons. Manu had 4 GREAT years (2005, 2007, 2010, 2011), but his body failed him time and time again, especially in the playoffs, when his efficiency usually dipped. He was a guy who could kill you in spurts, but he wasn't on the level of a Kobe or DWade, guys who could consistently get their numbers and play at an MVPish level despite playing alongside generational talent. I'd say he's in the Reggie Miller and Ray Allen tier, but at the top of that tier.

    Manu's biggest issue was that he wasn't consistently great, especially in the playoffs. He'd give you moments and great games, but not night in night out consistent production. That's why he was always referred to as our X factor. If he had a great game, we were essentially unbeatable.

    One more thing that we need to remember when looking at Manu's advanced stats is that those numbers are based on playing a disproportionate number of minutes against bench players compared to other starts at his level.

  18. #43
    Make a trade steal
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Post Count
    10,678
    Manu with only two all star appearances says it all. The top players have far more all star appearances because they put up the numbers. Manu did not even score 20 points a game for a season, his best was just under at 19.5 and career average of only 13.3 points per game. Weak scoring numbers when compared to the top players. 58th best is too generous of a ranking. Some spur fans put him ahead of Gervin because they have never seen Gervin play.

  19. #44
    Spurs Fanatic
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Post Count
    2,713
    It's hard to rank where Manu would be. He's better for international play than NBA because of games and minutes restrictions . Although knowing how Pop is and if Manu didn't play all those summers of iternational ball, I wonder if he could've handled more than he did. It's hard to also rank him because he played with Tim Duncan and Tony Parker and he came off the bench almost his whole career with the Spurs. His stats aren't very impressive in the NBA (a lot of other guys average more points then he did) and overall his personal NBA accomplishments aren't impressive, but a lot of things he does to win games don't show up on the score board and the way he can impact games. Also you can't forget he was one of our top closers which we can't take for granted. it's an interesting discussion for sure. As far as his international career you've got to give him credit for helping his team be one of the first ones to beat Team USA in 2002 and then helping lead his team to a win again versus Team USA in 2004 (yes I know our team was week but still it was made up of All Stars and some of the best plaers) and then on to a gold medal. Based on his international accomplishments alone he's making the HOF. As far as the NBA it's really hard to rank where he would be or who he is better than.

  20. #45
    Go Spurs Go!! dbreiden83080's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Post Count
    20,158
    Agreed. He's very tough to rank for a variety of reasons. Manu had 4 GREAT years (2005, 2007, 2010, 2011), but his body failed him time and time again, especially in the playoffs, when his efficiency usually dipped. He was a guy who could kill you in spurts, but he wasn't on the level of a Kobe or DWade, guys who could consistently get their numbers and play at an MVPish level despite playing alongside generational talent. I'd say he's in the Reggie Miller and Ray Allen tier, but at the top of that tier.

    Manu's biggest issue was that he wasn't consistently great, especially in the playoffs. He'd give you moments and great games, but not night in night out consistent production. That's why he was always referred to as our X factor. If he had a great game, we were essentially unbeatable.

    One more thing that we need to remember when looking at Manu's advanced stats is that those numbers are based on playing a disproportionate number of minutes against bench players compared to other starts at his level.
    And I hate to bring up painful memories, but the 2006 game 7 foul still pisses me off to this day. We were going to the finals. It would’ve been a nasty fight with the Miami Heat, but I believe we would have won. That’s six championships. .

  21. #46
    Veteran
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Post Count
    12,916
    Parish would be close. He played with stacked talent. But Willis Reed for example was a franchise big man. Manu do you think he is a franchise player? He made the All Star team twice.. He was the 2nd maybe 3rd wheel on the Spurs. Tony gets shunned around here in the midst of the Manu love fest.. Had Manu not been on the Spurs it's a short career brother. Pop kept him healthy. And playing with a top 5 all time player helped just a little with the rings. I am not putting him above franchise level players, because he won rings with Tim Duncan.. We got some idiots saying he is better than AI.. Which is hilarious.. Lillard is 72. He's having a better career than Manu.. He just didn't play with TD.. It's easy to say "He would have averaged 25 a game" Well he didn't..
    There are a lot of idiots in here that believe Manu is better than Dirk which is asinine.

  22. #47
    Groundhog Day TDfan2007's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Post Count
    8,091
    There are a lot of idiots in here that believe Manu is better than Dirk which is asinine.
    Those people can't be helped *shrug*

  23. #48
    Groundhog Day TDfan2007's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Post Count
    8,091
    And I hate to bring up painful memories, but the 2006 game 7 foul still pisses me off to this day. We were going to the finals. It would’ve been a nasty fight with the Miami Heat, but I believe we would have won. That’s six championships. .
    Same, man. Idk why, but that loss hurt more than 0.4, and even more than 2013, mainly because of the drastic change in legacy. That was our chance for a 3-peat with the Big 3 at the height of their respective powers. What could have been...

  24. #49
    Go Spurs Go!! dbreiden83080's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Post Count
    20,158
    Same, man. Idk why, but that loss hurt more than 0.4, and even more than 2013, mainly because of the drastic change in legacy. That was our chance for a 3-peat with the Big 3 at the height of their respective powers. What could have been...
    That was without question the greatest Spurs team that never won an NBA championship. It’s not even close. Just a ty series of cir stances cost us a championship.

  25. #50
    BLACK LIVES MATTER Play Boban's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Post Count
    5,005
    As has been mentioned It's hard to carry that offensive load for 10 years or more.. Manu never had to do it.. We could have him handle the ball in the last 2 minutes of big games. Because he had something left..
    he could've done it believe me u lie

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •