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  1. #151
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    This is where you and I completely part ways. Because I believe that Tim Duncan is such a great player historically, a top-five player all time that When you have him for 19 seasons, You were going to win four or five championships as long as the talent pool around him isnít completely terrible. Pop is one of the great coaches of all time. You mix and match and figure it out. Itís a nice problem to have when Tim Duncan is your centerpiece. Donít forget Tony Parker was a 19-year-old kid who couldnít shoot the basketball, and was hardly a prototypical point guard. We won four championships with him. Tim ing Duncan.. 2003 is the proof. Did Tony or Manu wow you in the post season? If they did you werenít paying attention very closely. Speedy Claxton played big minutes over Tony in the finals. Jackson made huge shots in the finals. Played big minutes. Manu played in spurts. Tim Duncan is just that ing good. And if you put a talented player on his roster. Itís going to work. Because heís going to make it work. Tony and Manu I love them, but why are they going to the Hall of Fame one day? Yep Tim ing Duncan.
    It doesn't work that way. Even James needed a "super team" plus miracles to win 2 of his 3 championships. From '05-'14, if not Ginobili, then the Spurs would have needed one of the handful of players in the league who could fill his role at as good or greater a level, to win the championship.

  2. #152
    65 tons of American pride Canyonero's Avatar
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    Manu is easily top 20. Unbiased opinion TBH.

  3. #153
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    Manu once averaged 20 ppg as a bench player, what's your point?

    You won't even say DeRozan is better than Manu, so your opinion on this matter is in invalid, tbh.
    Manu never averaged 20 points a game for a season. His best was just under at 19.5. Career scoring average is weak at 13.3 points per game when compared to the true top greats.

  4. #154
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    Manu never averaged 20 points a game for a season. His best was just under at 19.5. Career scoring average is weak at 13.3 points per game when compared to the true top greats.
    Ok, he didn't average 20 ppg, he averaged 19.5

  5. #155
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    Ok, he didn't average 20 ppg, he averaged 19.5
    19.5 average is still under 20 for one season and that was his high point season. He just did not have the scoring numbers or the overall stats as the other top players.

  6. #156
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    I think he could have been the main guy (and honestly in spurts he kinda was) on a team, even a playoff team
    He probably doesn't get to 40 and does not play as much with the NT, but in his prime he had the playing ability and leadership to have his own team
    I feel like top 60 is fair, although there's no way VC is a better player for instance, his stats are pedestrian but he's been a winner everywhere and if you think about he just had a very complete and versatile skillset, guy could do anything on offense and also played defense (a lot of the guys above him didn't tbh)
    He's difficult to rank not only because his role with the Spurs but also cause he came to the league at 25, needed some time to adjust to the compe ion and Pop, so we kind of forget that part of his prime got a bit wasted and part of his prime was spent overseas (he was a monster from 00 to 02)
    With that said though, I think the notion that any good/pretty good/star player could've given the Spurs what Manu did quite ignorant
    He was a crucial part of the dynasty, and a unique one
    The guy accepted coming off the bench while he was a star in his prime and playing as such, allowed TD and Tony to get all their touches and inferior SGs who needed to start to play their game to take his place while he wasn't just jacking up shots with the second unit but actually running it and trying to put role players, even ty ones into a rhythm
    He could affect an outcome and make a game winning play in so many different ways (I remember clutch layups, 3s, jumpers, offensive rebounds, steals, defensive rebounds, stolen inbounds, charges), he was willing to take over in things were going south and willing to take a backseat if he wasn't needed, he could be decisive even without scoring, not many stars, even superior players, could do all this

  7. #157
    Believe. Sugus's Avatar
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    People here really questioning whether Manu could lead a team as the go-to guy anywhere in the NBA... Guy won an Olympic Gold medal against the US Dream Team as, by far, the best player and leader of the Argentina NT. How much farther away do you think an NBA team is from that? Just because he never had the usage rate to get over 20ppg - an absolutely arbitrary mark, by the way - is somehow indication that he's not great? Please.

    When you make a list of the highest scoring players of all time, you can go ahead and leave Manu out of it. Now, if you're making a "best" of all time list, you have to lookt at other considerations. How a player impacts winning, leads a team, is a figure for the team, has good locker-room at ude and winning mentality, hustle plays, DEFENSE... These are all things the "best" players cannot lack. Counting stats is a partial picture - any in depth analysis should be looking further.

  8. #158
    Go Spurs Go!! dbreiden83080's Avatar
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    People here really questioning whether Manu could lead a team as the go-to guy anywhere in the NBA... Guy won an Olympic Gold medal against the US Dream Team as, by far, the best player and leader of the Argentina NT. How much farther away do you think an NBA team is from that? Just because he never had the usage rate to get over 20ppg - an absolutely arbitrary mark, by the way - is somehow indication that he's not great? Please.

    When you make a list of the highest scoring players of all time, you can go ahead and leave Manu out of it. Now, if you're making a "best" of all time list, you have to lookt at other considerations. How a player impacts winning, leads a team, is a figure for the team, has good locker-room at ude and winning mentality, hustle plays, DEFENSE... These are all things the "best" players cannot lack. Counting stats is a partial picture - any in depth analysis should be looking further.
    But part of evaluating a winning Player is were they driving the bus, or passengers on the bus? He was a part of something very special for a long time in San Antonio. But a top five or so player of all time was mostly driving that bus. Heís kind of like Pippen in that sense. He wasnít the main man. But he made great contributions. Some players are truly blessed to land in great situations. And some not. When I was a kid Patrick Ewing was one of my favorite players. He hardly had any help whatsoever for 10+ years in New York. He was almost playing by himself. David Robinson also. He didnít have much help at all.

  9. #159
    Still Sporting Ben Davis Allan Rowe vs Wade's Avatar
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  10. #160
    Still Sporting Ben Davis Allan Rowe vs Wade's Avatar
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  11. #161
    Go Spurs Go!! dbreiden83080's Avatar
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  12. #162
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    But part of evaluating a winning Player is were they driving the bus, or passengers on the bus? He was a part of something very special for a long time in San Antonio. But a top five or so player of all time was mostly driving that bus. He’s kind of like Pippen in that sense. He wasn’t the main man. But he made great contributions. Some players are truly blessed to land in great situations. And some not. When I was a kid Patrick Ewing was one of my favorite players. He hardly had any help whatsoever for 10+ years in New York. He was almost playing by himself. David Robinson also. He didn’t have much help at all.
    You are capable of thinking Iverson is a better player than Pippen, tbh.

  13. #163
    Go Spurs Go!! dbreiden83080's Avatar
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    You are capable of thinking Iverson is a better player than Pippen, tbh.
    If one can come to a line of thinking that Manu is better than Iverson..

    ing anything is possible..

    "Hey Brother that League MVP you got, and that finals run.. Not Impressed"

    "Uh Huh"

  14. #164
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    If one can come to a line of thinking that Manu is better than Iverson..

    ing anything is possible..

    "Hey Brother that League MVP you got, and that finals run.. Not Impressed"

    "Uh Huh"
    So, do you think Iverson > Pippen?

  15. #165
    Groundhog Day TDfan2007's Avatar
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    Can anyone name more than 2 playoff series outside of 2005 (a magical year for him) in which Manu completely took over and was the team's best player? Off the top of my head, 2008 against the Hornets comes to mind and 2011 against the Grizz.

    Manu was the guy who would give you his brilliance in certain games (usually game 5s for whatever reason), but he rarely displayed the consistency to take over a playoff series. It is what it is. He was the heart and X-factor of 3 of our le runs, and his 2014 Finals performance is wildly underrated.

  16. #166
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    Another thing about Manu's game which is underappreciated, is the impact of his dynamic style of play on the Spurs. Prior to Manu's prime, the Spurs offense was terribly predictable and prone to long droughts, but Manu (along with Tony) changed that. He gave us an elite perimeter scorer and PnR maestro, which helped diversify our offense and settle things late in games.

  17. #167
    Go Spurs Go!! dbreiden83080's Avatar
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    2014 Finals performance is wildly underrated.
    His 2013 Finals was.. Uh yeah..

  18. #168
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    Can anyone name more than 2 playoff series outside of 2005 (a magical year for him) in which Manu completely took over and was the team's best player? Off the top of my head, 2008 against the Hornets comes to mind and 2011 against the Grizz.

    Manu was the guy who would give you his brilliance in certain games (usually game 5s for whatever reason), but he rarely displayed the consistency to take over a playoff series. It is what it is. He was the heart and X-factor of 3 of our le runs, and his 2014 Finals performance is wildly underrated.
    Think he has a case for 14 vs Dallas and OKC, although I wouldn't say he "took over" (it was great team effort)
    But the point is his job wasn't to be the best player throughout a series (he played with a top 10 player ever and a great PG), he had to be the one who put us over the top and honestly he did many times, I think even his 07 run happens to be somehow underrated
    Could he be the main guy on a team? I think yes if given that responsibility, and it would have been fun to see him considering how that went outside of the NBA, but we'll never know and I guess he's happy with his 4 rings

  19. #169
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    Can anyone name more than 2 playoff series outside of 2005 (a magical year for him) in which Manu completely took over and was the team's best player? Off the top of my head, 2008 against the Hornets comes to mind and 2011 against the Grizz.

    Manu was the guy who would give you his brilliance in certain games (usually game 5s for whatever reason), but he rarely displayed the consistency to take over a playoff series. It is what it is. He was the heart and X-factor of 3 of our le runs, and his 2014 Finals performance is wildly underrated.
    Too many, tbh... Remember series against the Jazz, the Mavs... who could forget against the Suns??? Way too many.

    EDIT: Almost forgot about the block on Harden against the Rockets, sealing the series. Also used to pwn the Nuggets on the regular, when they still had Melo/AI.

  20. #170
    Go Spurs Go!! dbreiden83080's Avatar
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    Too many, tbh... Remember series against the Jazz, the Mavs... who could forget against the Suns??? Way too many.
    Which one against the Suns? Tony always put up big numbers against the Suns... So did Tim. In fact all the big 3 basically did..

  21. #171
    Spur-taaaa TDMVPDPOY's Avatar
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    remember when the spurs go into a playoff series with a 2-0, then the opponent adjusted to enrique no jumpshot pos for that backdoor sweep or just a series loss?

  22. #172
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    Which one against the Suns? Tony always put up big numbers against the Suns... So did Tim. In fact all the big 3 basically did..
    2008, 2OT game at home. I remember watching that from a hotel room in San Antonio, tbh


  23. #173
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    That's the game where Manu assisted TD for a 3 pointer to send it to overtime.

  24. #174
    Go Spurs Go!! dbreiden83080's Avatar
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    That's the game where Manu assisted TD for a 3 pointer to send it to overtime.
    Yes I remember. Looking at the stats Tony actually had 30 points a game in that series. And Tim Duncan had the monster game one. Tim was 24/14.. Manu 19PPG..

  25. #175
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    Yes I remember. Looking at the stats Tony actually had 30 points a game in that series. And Tim Duncan had the monster game one. Tim was 24/14.. Manu 19PPG..
    Manu closed almost all of those games, tbh... that was pretty usual around that time.

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