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  1. #26
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    Not parallel situations at all. Getting old man Peyton an MVP? Impressive. Dude couldn't throw the ball any more even.

    And I don't have a dog in the fight for Adam Gase; but being a .500 coach while having sh** talent makes me think maybe he's legit.
    i dont actually think gase is an awful coach... when he got canned from Miami i said i thought he actually overachieved and would land another job soon. he did with the jets, though i dont think he has managed that situation well (darnold's mono nothwithstanding)

    at gase getting peyton his mvp

    peyton did whatever he wanted for the last decade of his career. he changed some aspect of just about every play at the line, regardless of the call

  2. #27
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    Eric Bienemy is a genius cos he has the MVP @ QB.
    Not parallel situations at all. Getting old man Peyton an MVP? Impressive. Dude couldn't throw the ball any more even.

    And I don't have a dog in the fight for Adam Gase; but being a .500 coach while having sh** talent makes me think maybe he's legit.
    "not parallels at all" when they are identical.

    gase had the mvp as QB.

  3. #28
    5X ST MVP Spurtacular's Avatar
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    "not parallels at all" when they are identical.

    gase had the mvp as QB.
    Sure, if you want to say that 24-yr-old Mahomes who bails out offenses with his legs is the same as 37-yr-old Peyton throwing wobblers around the park.
    But Peyton's stats were pretty beefed up, so maybe to your point the offensive talent was pretty stacked that year.

  4. #29
    5X ST MVP Spurtacular's Avatar
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    i dont actually think gase is an awful coach... when he got canned from Miami i said i thought he actually overachieved and would land another job soon. he did with the jets, though i dont think he has managed that situation well (darnold's mono nothwithstanding)

    at gase getting peyton his mvp

    peyton did whatever he wanted for the last decade of his career. he changed some aspect of just about every play at the line, regardless of the call
    Peyton was always a stat stuffer. The fluffer media took away Favre's MVP in 09 and gave it to him cos of that.

  5. #30
    Veteran KobesAchilles's Avatar
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    2000s....... ummmmmm....... you mean the decade where the USA, including the majority of white Americans, voted for a black man to be President (and one with a shaky past, Arabic name and questionable birth status, no less)?

    Kinda just proved my point. But it’s ok. This is a football forum anyways. I don’t think it’s a smart thing to do to incentivize with draft picks but something does have to be done. I’m not one to say that there needs to be a set number of minorities or something but even I could’ve told you that Gase was a ty hire. The Cincinnati coach is a ty hire too (tho they did need to move on) and I love Kingsbury, I cheered for him at Tech, but how in the did he get hired? oh and McCarthy is another ty hire. Dude had Farve and Rodgers and only won one ring? How is that possible?

    On the other hand, both Ohio teams needed to move off their black coaches and Arizona looked like they didn’t know what a forward pass was either that one season with what’s his face. Eric needs to coach somewhere though since literally every other Reid guy did and they didn’t call plays either. There’s no set answer and I see both points of view but the NFL should’ve known better to fire all the black coaches in the same season. Optics look horrible.

  6. #31
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    Eric Bienemy is a genius cos he has the MVP @ QB.
    Not saying he’s a genius but rather that he’s done more than other coaches who’ve had head coaching gigs have done. Being the coordinator on the dominant side of the ball for a super bowl winning team usually gets head coaching offers regardless of how stacked the team was.

    Im caveating this though because I can’t think of one black assistant coach who you could make the argument for other than him. Plenty of black assistant coaches in recent years have gotten opportunities (Steve Wilks, Todd Bowles, Vance Joseph, Brian Flores, etc) and the results just haven’t been there. Outside of Wilks they’ve all gotten the same 2-3 years to prove themselves as head coaches the same way crappy white assistants who flamed out have, and Wilks was such a disaster where firing him after one season isn’t something I’d criticize.

  7. #32
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    "not parallels at all" when they are identical.

    gase had the mvp as QB.
    Bieniemy’s offense also didn’t get ed in every hole in one of the worst SB performances ever the way Gase’s offense did

  8. #33
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    2000s....... ummmmmm....... you mean the decade where the USA, including the majority of white Americans, voted for a black man to be President (and one with a shaky past, Arabic name and questionable birth status, no less)?

    andy, dude .... seriously?

  9. #34
    Yeah this is where I think Republicans are dumb even though I agree with them on the issue, calling this a “key different” is dumb. It’s a wedge issue that’s blown out of proportion as something that makes it so a white kid with a 4.0 GPA perfect SATs and extra curriculars couldn’t get into college because of affirmative action. It’s a narcissistic viewpoint white incels have to convince themselves that their failures aren’t their fault. I disagree with affirmative action but it hasn’t adversely affected my life in any way.
    I assume you work in a white collar position like myself. The one major problem I've had with AA is working in teams in the workplace. As in, we'd bring in a guy who clearly wasn't qualified for the role, could not get the work done in a timely manner, and had to have the more talented employees cover for him thus bringing down the team morale overall. It was a detriment to us but also the employee himself as he had to be moved off the team in order for us to meet deadlines, which was an embarrassing ordeal for him.

  10. #35
    #AllLivesMatter® Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    i dont actually think gase is an awful coach... when he got canned from Miami i said i thought he actually overachieved and would land another job soon. he did with the jets, though i dont think he has managed that situation well (darnold's mono nothwithstanding)
    l
    I actually think Gase is a similar case to Brian Flores. Saved his job because of an excellent latter half of the 2019 season. I don't think he has mismanaged his situation, he took a really bad one and made drastic improvements, including completely annihilating your raiders when they were looking good 2/3 of the way thru last year.

    The Jets were 7-4 with Darnold in the lineup and they could win the division this coming year just as easily as anyone with a healthy Darnold and Bell. Their WR corps is putrid though especially after losing Anderson. They better hope Mims is the second coming of DK Metcalf and not just another Devin Funchess, but I'm leaning towards the latter.

  11. #36
    #AllLivesMatter® Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    I assume you work in a white collar position like myself. The one major problem I've had with AA is working in teams in the workplace. As in, we'd bring in a guy who clearly wasn't qualified for the role, could not get the work done in a timely manner, and had to have the more talented employees cover for him thus bringing down the team morale overall. It was a detriment to us but also the employee himself as he had to be moved off the team in order for us to meet deadlines, which was an embarrassing ordeal for him.
    The problem is that AA needs to be a multi-way street, not just against us whites. For example, if AA is allowed to exist, there should be a cap on India Indians in the IT workspace. Also, only green cards and US citizens should be allowed to work high-pay white collar jobs.

  12. #37
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    andy, dude .... seriously?
    - Barack Hussein Obama
    - More likely than not born in Hawaii because his mother had no reason to travel to Kenya, but
    - "Official" original birth certificate took months to be produced, with font that had not yet been invented at the time of his birth;
    - Probably the first bas to become US President
    - No stable family situation in childhood, unlike all past US Presidents
    - Part of marijuana stoner club in youth days in Hawaii
    - ACORN ties... vote early, vote often!
    - Friends with radical-left terrorist Bill Ayers
    - Converted to Christianity by Jeremiah Wright... "it's not god bless America, it's GOD DAMN AMERICA!!"
    - Was born and raised atheist, not Christian... his mother was atheist but had an unhealthy affinity for Islam, based on the men with whom she dated and procreated

    Definitely not the "model" first black president... ideally should have been an intellectual black person with an American name and fully African American, with a solid family upbringing, not mixed race or with a Muslim father directly from Kenya that wasn't in the picture.

  13. #38
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    Kinda just proved my point. But it’s ok. This is a football forum anyways. I don’t think it’s a smart thing to do to incentivize with draft picks but something does have to be done. I’m not one to say that there needs to be a set number of minorities or something but even I could’ve told you that Gase was a ty hire. The Cincinnati coach is a ty hire too (tho they did need to move on) and I love Kingsbury, I cheered for him at Tech, but how in the did he get hired? oh and McCarthy is another ty hire. Dude had Farve and Rodgers and only won one ring? How is that possible?

    On the other hand, both Ohio teams needed to move off their black coaches and Arizona looked like they didn’t know what a forward pass was either that one season with what’s his face. Eric needs to coach somewhere though since literally every other Reid guy did and they didn’t call plays either. There’s no set answer and I see both points of view but the NFL should’ve known better to fire all the black coaches in the same season. Optics look horrible.
    It's all about merit. EB should be the successor to KC's offense and I think he knows he has that job down pat when Andy retires. Just like McDaniels in New England with BB.

    If Reid retires and EB is still there and doesn't get the HC job, we can talk and have this conversation again.

    Kingsbury's resume isn't amazing but his offense is perfect for Kyler Murray and the modern NFL passing system and I think that team is destined to do great things very soon. It's going to resemble a Madden Ultimate Team offense as soon as this year.

    Not racist, but, in general.... most black guys associated with the NFL (and the older dying white generation of football coaches, to be fair) still mostly favor defense and the running game, ground and pound, "it starts in the trenches" mentality etc... and it's become a passing league which favors the passing mentality which right now is more of a white boy thing, but I think the blacks will catch up in due time.

    I don't think Gase was a bad hire, he did very well with Darnold when he was available last year... 7-4.

    The Ohio teams of the AFC North will always suck because a) their management/ownership sucks, b) their fan market share sucks compared to their rivals, and c) their main rivals, the Steelers and Ravens, are perennially 2 of the top 10 well-run franchises in the NFL. And one of them has a successful black HC and the other has a successful black QB, so there you go.

  14. #39
    #AllLivesMatter® Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    Bieniemy’s offense also didn’t get ed in every hole in one of the worst SB performances ever the way Gase’s offense did
    people underrate the difference between the 13 Seahawks defense and the 14 Seahawks defense. Even with a similar personnel, the big 3 in the secondary all were playing on serious injuries sustained earlier in the playoff run, and the slot corner broke his leg on the first drive of SB49 after getting the pick. But even more-so than that, it was mental... they were fatigued out from winning, didn't have the drive and enthusiasm they did the previous year. Think about it like the difference between the 01 Lakers vs the 02 and 03 Lakers... 13 Heat vs the 14 Heat. etc. Sometimes when you win it all, even with the best team the drive just isn't quite there next year and that is enough to reduce the chemistry to the point where it affects your performance.

    People also underrate the fact that the 13 Broncos, despite having the "greatest offense of all time" statistically, had a very mediocre and shaky offensive line. Tons of elite weapons and an aging but still very effective Manning, but towards the end of that season even teams like the Chargers figured out how to expose them. Even the patchwork Patriots of '13 gave them a good battle, and Seattle kicked them into oblivion where they belonged.

  15. #40
    WICKED PISSAH!!!! Will Hunting's Avatar
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    people underrate the difference between the 13 Seahawks defense and the 14 Seahawks defense. Even with a similar personnel, the big 3 in the secondary all were playing on serious injuries sustained earlier in the playoff run, and the slot corner broke his leg on the first drive of SB49 after getting the pick. But even more-so than that, it was mental... they were fatigued out from winning, didn't have the drive and enthusiasm they did the previous year. Think about it like the difference between the 01 Lakers vs the 02 and 03 Lakers... 13 Heat vs the 14 Heat. etc. Sometimes when you win it all, even with the best team the drive just isn't quite there next year and that is enough to reduce the chemistry to the point where it affects your performance.

    People also underrate the fact that the 13 Broncos, despite having the "greatest offense of all time" statistically, had a very mediocre and shaky offensive line. Tons of elite weapons and an aging but still very effective Manning, but towards the end of that season even teams like the Chargers figured out how to expose them. Even the patchwork Patriots of '13 gave them a good battle, and Seattle kicked them into oblivion where they belonged.
    We’ve already had this conversation and it has nothing to do with this topic, no one is talking about 2014. The greatness of the Seahawks’ defense isn’t what made it so the Broncos ed up the snap on the very first play of the game.

    Their offensive line was also ranked 3rd on PFF:
    https://www.pff.com/news/2013-offensive-line-rankings

    The Seahawks were definitely better than the Broncos (even though the Broncos were favored going into the game) but they weren’t 35 points better. It’s a stain on Gase’s resume that Bieniemy doesn’t have.

  16. #41
    #AllLivesMatter® Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    We’ve already had this conversation and it has nothing to do with this topic, no one is talking about 2014. The greatness of the Seahawks’ defense isn’t what made it so the Broncos ed up the snap on the very first play of the game.

    Their offensive line was also ranked 3rd on PFF:
    https://www.pff.com/news/2013-offensive-line-rankings

    The Seahawks were definitely better than the Broncos (even though the Broncos were favored going into the game) but they weren’t 35 points better. It’s a stain on Gase’s resume that Bieniemy doesn’t have.
    John Fox, not Gase, was the head coach. Fox is known as one of the most conservative minded HCs in all of football in the past 25 years.

    Yeah, the bad snap by the center and the safety on the first play of the game was a harbinger of the ultimate destiny, but the Broncos had it coming regardless. Von Miller being out injured that game made it impossible for their defense to keep them in the game, remember they also didn't have D.Ware or Talib yet either so it was all on their offense. The Broncos' special teams was completely miserable that game as well. It was an avalanche. Everyone deserved fault, but you can't squarely blame Manning (or the OC, but not the HC) for not being able to score against 11 giant hungry hornets until garbage time.

    Gase performed well in NYJ last year when Darnold played. I think they could be better than Buffalo this year honestly... Buffalo's QB is trash and the team in general is overrated.

  17. #42
    WICKED PISSAH!!!! Will Hunting's Avatar
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    The problem is that AA needs to be a multi-way street, not just against us whites. For example, if AA is allowed to exist, there should be a cap on India Indians in the IT workspace. Also, only green cards and US citizens should be allowed to work high-pay white collar jobs.
    There’s actually been studies that show Asians are more negatively impacted by AA than whites, you believe in this conservative myth that AA props up all minority races at the expense of white people.

    AA should exist but it should be purely means based and agnostic to race. One of my complaints about AA as it currently exists is that scholarships go towards the black/Hispanic kid who went to private high school and has all the opportunities that all the rich white kids have. One kid I was friends with growing up got some full ride “Hispanic presidential scholarship” for being 1/2 Hispanic even though his family owned 4 car dealerships and was worth into the millions.

  18. #43
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    John Fox, not Gase, was the head coach. Fox is known as one of the most conservative minded HCs in all of football in the past 25 years.

    Yeah, the bad snap by the center and the safety on the first play of the game was a harbinger of the ultimate destiny, but the Broncos had it coming regardless. Von Miller being out injured that game made it impossible for their defense to keep them in the game, remember they also didn't have D.Ware or Talib yet either so it was all on their offense. The Broncos' special teams was completely miserable that game as well. It was an avalanche. Everyone deserved fault, but you can't squarely blame Manning (or the OC, but not the HC) for not being able to score against 11 giant hungry hornets until garbage time.

    Gase performed well in NYJ last year when Darnold played. I think they could be better than Buffalo this year honestly... Buffalo's QB is trash and the team in general is overrated.
    So it’s not on the QB or the OC but rather the defense and special teams that the offense was more or less shut out

    Gase also went 7-6 with Darnold as the starter, and none of those wins were against playoff teams. Your standards for success are pretty mediocre when you’re trying to prop up white coaches.

  19. #44
    #AllLivesMatter® Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    There’s actually been studies that show Asians are more negatively impacted by AA than whites, you believe in this conservative myth that AA props up all minority races at the expense of white people.

    AA should exist but it should be purely means based and agnostic to race.
    One of my complaints about AA as it currently exists is that scholarships go towards the black/Hispanic kid who went to private high school and has all the opportunities that all the rich white kids have. One kid I was friends with growing up got some full ride “Hispanic presidential scholarship” for being 1/2 Hispanic even though his family owned 4 car dealerships and was worth into the millions.
    That is EO (Equal Opportunity), not AA.

    At this point when the left has made it so anyone can self-identify as anything, you might as well self identify as Latino even if you're a freckled pale ginger, so long as you meet the minimum taco-consumption requirements for "being Hispanic" (lol). No reason to handicap yourself to the leftist college board decision makers by pridefully identifying as "White Non-Hispanic".

    Even if I marry and have kids with a white woman (hopefully), my kids are gonna legally be hispanic... because why not? TACOS!!!!!

    --


    As per your other point, you're 100% right about East Asians being adversely affected in the college systems even worse than whites on average. Because they only represent, say, 10% of the population on the West Coast so they have a quota for them, which is unfair if you believe in meritocracy. I feel the overall consensus from the left is to prop up Hispanics and Blacks at the expense of Whites, Asians, etc.

    I've left out India Indians because there just aren't enough permanent ones in the US for them to count; most of the ones you see are straight off the plane from India on work visas and they'll be gone in less than a decade and due to the exchange rates from US Dollar-India Rupee, it just continues to make their aristocratic caste system worse.

  20. #45
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    So it’s not on the QB or the OC but rather the defense and special teams that the offense was more or less shut out

    Gase also went 7-6 with Darnold as the starter, and none of those wins were against playoff teams. Your standards for success are pretty mediocre when you’re trying to prop up white coaches.
    It's on the entire team. OL, HC, QB, defense, ST, OC, DC, GM, etc. That team was a bubble waiting to burst like the 2008 economy. Defense has a responsibility to get more possessions and stop a Russell Wilson passing attack that had struggled for large parts of the 2013 season; they failed. It was on the OLine to not snapping the ball 25 yards into the end zone on the first play, and leaking so bad that Manning gets clobbered in under 3 seconds leading to an errant throw and a linebacker pick-six. It was on the HC and OC for not devising a better cover-3 beating game plan on offense. Special teams has a responsibility to not allow a washed-up Percy Harvin to run all over their ST units and take the second half opening kickoff all the way to the house.

    It was a total team beatdown.

    Side note: I think the Broncos had a solid chance to win if it was against the 49ers instead. Kaepernick was a choker, Denver handled running QBs well that year, and the 49ers didn't have a particularly good secondary.

  21. #46
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    I think Eric B. is happy in KC honestly. Reid is getting up there in age and he's survived cancer once. He's obese, tired, and now he has a ring to show for his legacy. He can retire and de-stress soon and Eric B. should be the heir to that throne, and he'll still have over a decade of Mahomes magic which means job security.

    Do you really think Eric B. would rather go to a place like Jacksonville or Cleveland where he'll likely be out in 2 years or less, even if it's not really his fault that the team sucks?

    Think about it.

    KC head coaching job = long term career security, unless mid-20s year old Mahomes suffers a career-ending injury (very unlikely).

    Why would Eric B. want to leave, only to go 4-12 and 3-13 with some ty team and be ousted and theoretically blacklisted like guys like Hue Jackson and Steve Wilks?

  22. #47
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    I think Eric B. is happy in KC honestly. Reid is getting up there in age and he's survived cancer once. He's obese, tired, and now he has a ring to show for his legacy. He can retire and de-stress soon and Eric B. should be the heir to that throne, and he'll still have over a decade of Mahomes magic which means job security.

    Do you really think Eric B. would rather go to a place like Jacksonville or Cleveland where he'll likely be out in 2 years or less, even if it's not really his fault that the team sucks?

    Think about it.

    KC head coaching job = long term career security, unless mid-20s year old Mahomes suffers a career-ending injury (very unlikely).

    Why would Eric B. want to leave, only to go 4-12 and 3-13 with some ty team and be ousted and theoretically blacklisted like guys like Hue Jackson and Steve Wilks?
    Bc Baker is a good QB. Not elite or anything but you can win with Baker. Also Jax is about to get Lawerence so that job will look a lot more attractive next year. Also Riverboat Ron will be getting his QB in Fields next year as well. The NFC East is going to start getting compe ive really fast.

    Also every head coach has a huge ego and they all think they can turn a franchise around. They all think they are better than the previous head coach and that their philosophy will work for the team. That’s why Eric might go to Cleveland or Jax. I can see him taking over the Chiefs in 2 years after Andy gets his second ring.

    My point wasn’t about the merit or non merit of coaches but rather the optics. And when you run a business Optics matters a lot. You can’t fire like 4 minority coaches and leave only 3 left. It’s bad optics. Luckily Dan did the smart business move and hired Ron but even that wasn’t enough as other teams were just ting on the Rooney Rule (which I know you hate) but the optics on that looks really bad and brings negative press when none is really needed and can easily be avoided.

  23. #48
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    There’s actually been studies that show Asians are more negatively impacted by AA than whites, you believe in this conservative myth that AA props up all minority races at the expense of white people.

    AA should exist but it should be purely means based and agnostic to race. One of my complaints about AA as it currently exists is that scholarships go towards the black/Hispanic kid who went to private high school and has all the opportunities that all the rich white kids have. One kid I was friends with growing up got some full ride “Hispanic presidential scholarship” for being 1/2 Hispanic even though his family owned 4 car dealerships and was worth into the millions.
    Don’t get how it should be agnostic to race when a lot of the issues it seeks to address are racial biases (most notable example being job applicants with white sounding names being more likely to getting called for an interview despite identical resumes

  24. #49
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    Don’t get how it should be agnostic to race when a lot of the issues it seeks to address are racial biases (most notable example being job applicants with white sounding names being more likely to getting called for an interview despite identical resumes
    In my experience when I was hiring people AA creates a negative stigma around hiring minorities. It leads to the subconscious mindset of “Well we’re not being asked to fill a diversity quota this time better hire someone white while we have the chance!” For the minorities who do get hired it also creates a hurdle they need to get over because the minute they don’t do something right the reaction is “Wonder how many more qualified white people were passed over for this job.”

  25. #50
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    Not saying he’s a genius but rather that he’s done more than other coaches who’ve had head coaching gigs have done. Being the coordinator on the dominant side of the ball for a super bowl winning team usually gets head coaching offers regardless of how stacked the team was.

    Im caveating this though because I can’t think of one black assistant coach who you could make the argument for other than him. Plenty of black assistant coaches in recent years have gotten opportunities (Steve Wilks, Todd Bowles, Vance Joseph, Brian Flores, etc) and the results just haven’t been there. Outside of Wilks they’ve all gotten the same 2-3 years to prove themselves as head coaches the same way crappy white assistants who flamed out have, and Wilks was such a disaster where firing him after one season isn’t something I’d criticize.
    I'm not bothered if he gets a job, obviously. Just don't buy into the hyped racism excuse(s).

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