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  1. #76
    Still Sporting Ben Davis Allan Rowe vs Wade's Avatar
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    Can he stop his community from destroying the place they live in? Can he possibly speak to his community about staying in school and hopefully become productive and make decent living so they donít have to rob and steal and eventually get busted? If immigrants from another country can come and make something out of themselves there is no reason an American born citizen canít do the same.
    ďhis communityĒ?

    you mean san antonio?


    *also lmao lmao about the Ďimmigrantí from US Virgin Islands

  2. #77
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    Can he stop his community from destroying the place they live in? Can he possibly speak to his community about staying in school and hopefully become productive and make decent living so they donít have to rob and steal and eventually get busted? If immigrants from another country can come and make something out of themselves there is no reason an American born citizen canít do the same.
    I didnít know people in the VI like to destroy their island. I didnít know school drop out rates are high in the VI. I also didnít know there is a large immigration to the VI. Overall stupid post by you.

  3. #78
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    I didn’t know people in the VI like to destroy their island. I didn’t know school drop out rates are high in the VI. I also didn’t know there is a large immigration to the VI. Overall stupid post by you.
    I was i was talking about Stephen Jackson there buddy.

  4. #79
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    “his community”?

    you mean san antonio?


    *also lmao lmao about the ‘immigrant’ from US Virgin Islands
    I was i was talking about Stephen Jackson there buddy.

  5. #80
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    Players overvalue 1v1 capabilities. I rank 2003 Duncan below 2001 Shaq and 1995 Hakeem in pure 1v1 situations. However 2003 Tim's 5v5 capabilities are second to none, that team was NOT supposed to ring. Manu and especially Tony really flourished with Tim because Tim did all the little things that don't show up on stat sheets, like being one of the GOAT screeners, incredibly underrated TEAM defense, and give other players enough shots. Stat padding is extremely misleading, Russell Westbrook despite averaging triple double can not get out of the first round of the playoffs. LeBron despite playing stacked roster for a decade only has 3 rings and was extremely lucky to win 2 of them.

    There is also a leadership aura around Tim that boosts locker room stability and team morale. Hakeem was without a doubt a negative in both. 2 MVP + 3 FMVP > 1 MVP + 2 FMVP. And as much as I hate to say it, I wish Tim was more selfish in 2007 to get at least one more FMVP. He would be top 5 all time soon. Hopefully once stat padders like LeBron retire, people can look at Tim's intangibles and realize how special it is to win 5 rings in a small market that never ringed before, and most likely will not ring again in our life time.

  6. #81
    Spur-taaaa TDMVPDPOY's Avatar
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    Players overvalue 1v1 capabilities. I rank 2003 Duncan below 2001 Shaq and 1995 Hakeem in pure 1v1 situations. However 2003 Tim's 5v5 capabilities are second to none, that team was NOT supposed to ring. Manu and especially Tony really flourished with Tim because Tim did all the little things that don't show up on stat sheets, like being one of the GOAT screeners, incredibly underrated TEAM defense, and give other players enough shots. Stat padding is extremely misleading, Russell Westbrook despite averaging triple double can not get out of the first round of the playoffs. LeBron despite playing stacked roster for a decade only has 3 rings and was extremely lucky to win 2 of them.

    There is also a leadership aura around Tim that boosts locker room stability and team morale. Hakeem was without a doubt a negative in both. 2 MVP + 3 FMVP > 1 MVP + 2 FMVP. And as much as I hate to say it, I wish Tim was more selfish in 2007 to get at least one more FMVP. He would be top 5 all time soon. Hopefully once stat padders like LeBron retire, people can look at Tim's intangibles and realize how special it is to win 5 rings in a small market that never ringed before, and most likely will not ring again in our life time.
    i take pre 2000 knee injury duncan over any version of duncan...he was more quicker, athletic, had a bad ass low post spin move which were always and1 plays, reliable bankshot, reliable ft fg

  7. #82
    Believe. TD4THREE's Avatar
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    i take pre 2000 knee injury duncan over any version of duncan...he was more quicker, athletic, had a bad ass low post spin move which were always and1 plays, reliable bankshot, reliable ft fg
    Alot of people talk about his injury in 2000 like it was some catastrophic knee injury. A torn meniscus especially one that is surgically repaired is usually not even a season ending injury, Duncan could have even played that year, but the spurs wisely decided to shut him down instead.

    I really noticed Tim's athleticism start to decline rapidly in 06-08 from a combination of chronic ailments (plantar fasciitis, and Tendinosis in his right quad) and being on the wrong side of 30, that was when he started wearing that gigantic knee brace I believe.

  8. #83
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    Alot of people talk about his injury in 2000 like it was some catastrophic knee injury. A torn meniscus especially one that is surgically repaired is usually not even a season ending injury, Duncan could have even played that year, but the spurs wisely decided to shut him down instead.

    I really noticed Tim's athleticism start to decline rapidly in 06-08 from a combination of chronic ailments (plantar fasciitis, and Tendinosis in his right quad) and being on the wrong side of 30, that was when he started wearing that gigantic knee brace I believe.
    Didn't he have a partial menisectomy? I would think that robbed him of a lot of his athleticism.

  9. #84
    Believe. TD4THREE's Avatar
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    Didn't he have a partial menisectomy? I would think that robbed him of a lot of his athleticism.
    Yes but that's failry common with meniscus injuries and Duncan's was described as very mild with most of the Meniscus able to be repaired. D-Wade had one of his meniscus completely removed in 2002 for comparison. Westbrook had a partial menisectomy in 2013, as did Blake Griffin, Ron Artest, Chris Paul and several other stars. It happens to pretty much all of them at some point in time. It's really an injury that's going to be felt more later in the player's career with arthritis flare ups rather than a sudden decrease in athleticism.

    I myself didn't notice any drop off from 2000 to 2001 in terms of Duncan's mobility, alot of people seem to disagree though. 2002 was his athletic peak IMO, he was stronger and bulkier than he was in 99 and could out muscle smaller defenders down low but still retained his quickness to face up and drive past other bigs.

  10. #85
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    Yes but that's failry common with meniscus injuries and Duncan's was described as very mild with most of the Meniscus able to be repaired. D-Wade had one of his meniscus completely removed in 2002 for comparison. Westbrook had a partial menisectomy in 2013, as did Blake Griffin, Ron Artest, Chris Paul and several other stars. It happens to pretty much all of them at some point in time. It's really an injury that's going to be felt more later in the player's career with arthritis flare ups rather than a sudden decrease in athleticism.

    I myself didn't notice any drop off from 2000 to 2001 in terms of Duncan's mobility, alot of people seem to disagree though. 2002 was his athletic peak IMO, he was stronger and bulkier than he was in 99 and could out muscle smaller defenders down low but still retained his quickness to face up and drive past other bigs.
    Agreed. I was going to bring up examples of Westbrook and Wade. There meniscus tears were worse and they also had them at a young age but still kept their athleticism until they hit their early 30's. Granted Westbrook still has it now but he's starting to decline. I felt 2007 was the year where I felt Duncan lost a great deal of athleticism but prior to that I didn't notice a drop off.

  11. #86
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    Yes but that's failry common with meniscus injuries and Duncan's was described as very mild with most of the Meniscus able to be repaired. D-Wade had one of his meniscus completely removed in 2002 for comparison. Westbrook had a partial menisectomy in 2013, as did Blake Griffin, Ron Artest, Chris Paul and several other stars. It happens to pretty much all of them at some point in time. It's really an injury that's going to be felt more later in the player's career with arthritis flare ups rather than a sudden decrease in athleticism.

    I myself didn't notice any drop off from 2000 to 2001 in terms of Duncan's mobility, alot of people seem to disagree though. 2002 was his athletic peak IMO, he was stronger and bulkier than he was in 99 and could out muscle smaller defenders down low but still retained his quickness to face up and drive past other bigs.
    Well from what I remember, TD himself (and doctors) have been on record saying that he was scared he would never play again after the injury. If I'm missing something, let me know. I don't mind being corrected.

  12. #87
    Believe. TD4THREE's Avatar
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    Well from what I remember, TD himself (and doctors) have been on record saying that he was scared he would never play again after the injury. If I'm missing something, let me know. I don't mind being corrected.
    Duncan was wanting to play in the playoffs that year, a little over a week after the injury he was running up and down the court trying to show he was good to go.

    " 'I was doing everything I could to get ready to play,' Duncan said.

    He ran sprints up and down the court to show he could still move. But there was a loose bit of cartilage flapping around in his knee. The joint could have locked up at any moment."

    https://www.espn.com/nba/playoffs/2012/story

  13. #88
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    Timmy never RAPED!

    End of discussion.

  14. #89
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    Duncan was wanting to play in the playoffs that year, a little over a week after the injury he was running up and down the court trying to show he was good to go.

    " 'I was doing everything I could to get ready to play,' Duncan said.

    He ran sprints up and down the court to show he could still move. But there was a loose bit of cartilage flapping around in his knee. The joint could have locked up at any moment."

    https://www.espn.com/nba/playoffs/2012/story
    That part I do remember. They just made it sound like his career was in jeopardy after the injury.

  15. #90
    Go Spurs Go!! dbreiden83080's Avatar
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    When Exactly was Kobe a leader BTW? When he was running Shaq out of town?

  16. #91
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    Didn't he have a partial menisectomy? I would think that robbed him of a lot of his athleticism.
    Alot of people talk about his injury in 2000 like it was some catastrophic knee injury. A torn meniscus especially one that is surgically repaired is usually not even a season ending injury, Duncan could have even played that year, but the spurs wisely decided to shut him down instead.

    I really noticed Tim's athleticism start to decline rapidly in 06-08 from a combination of chronic ailments (plantar fasciitis, and Tendinosis in his right quad) and being on the wrong side of 30, that was when he started wearing that gigantic knee brace I believe.
    Agreed. I was going to bring up examples of Westbrook and Wade. There meniscus tears were worse and they also had them at a young age but still kept their athleticism until they hit their early 30's. Granted Westbrook still has it now but he's starting to decline. I felt 2007 was the year where I felt Duncan lost a great deal of athleticism but prior to that I didn't notice a drop off.
    Most athletes can recover from meniscal injuries in the short term, but tearing your meniscus puts you at increased risk for arthritis in your knee, especially as an athlete. Tim played both ends of the court, played international ball in his prime, and was a notoriously intense off-season trainer. Not a good combo.

    As a result, he developed tendonosis AND arthritis in his surgically repaired knee around 2008-2009, and it got worse what worse. Personally, I first noticed a drop-off in the 2008 playoffs (he had ZERO lift in the Lakers series and couldn't contest shots at the basket as well). The point of that brace he started using in 2011 was to prevent him from going into full knee extension, which would worsen the arthritic pain.

    This is why later in his career he relied less on his jump hook or left shoulder turnarounds (you have to plant on your left leg for those shots), which led to a more predictable post game.

  17. #92
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    Most athletes can recover from meniscal injuries in the short term, but tearing your meniscus puts you at increased risk for arthritis in your knee, especially as an athlete. Tim played both ends of the court, played international ball in his prime, and was a notoriously intense off-season trainer. Not a good combo.

    As a result, he developed tendonosis AND arthritis in his surgically repaired knee around 2008-2009, and it got worse what worse. Personally, I first noticed a drop-off in the 2008 playoffs (he had ZERO lift in the Lakers series and couldn't contest shots at the basket as well). The point of that brace he started using in 2011 was to prevent him from going into full knee extension, which would worsen the arthritic pain.

    This is why later in his career he relied less on his jump hook or left shoulder turnarounds (you have to plant on your left leg for those shots), which led to a more predictable post game.
    Thanks for your valuable input!! This only enhances his greatness in my eyes.

  18. #93
    Groundhog Day TDfan2007's Avatar
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    Thanks for your valuable input!! This only enhances his greatness in my eyes.
    Anytime! I'm a resident physician with a physical therapy background, so I was learning about those injuries as Tim was experiencing them.

    Imo what Tim was able to accomplish on only 1 fully functional knee was nothing short of incredible. He was his team's best player in multiple playoff runs, maintained all star level performance, and even pulled off one superstar-level season that almost ended with a ring and finals MVP.

    The guy literally had to adjust his shooting form and reinvent his game to account for his bum leg.

  19. #94
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    Anytime! I'm a resident physician with a physical therapy background, so I was learning about those injuries as Tim was experiencing them.

    Imo what Tim was able to accomplish on only 1 fully functional knee was nothing short of incredible. He was his team's best player in multiple playoff runs, maintained all star level performance, and even pulled off one superstar-level season that almost ended with a ring and finals MVP.

    The guy literally had to adjust his shooting form and reinvent his game to account for his bum leg.
    Here's a Facebook post of me explaining to a younger Spurs fan how significant Tim's comeback was from the injury:

    Because Tim Duncan had such a long and successful career, there is one important thing that people either don't realize or eventually forget: he played most of his career on 1 good leg. Having a physical disadvantage that kept him from reaching his true potential and still having the career he had only enhances his greatness in my eyes. This ABSOLUTELY has to be factored into the equation when you analyze TD's career and compare him to other all-time greats. Why? TD was only at his best physically for the first 3 years of his career.

    People are comparing the Tim Duncan of his last 16 years to the peaks of those other greats (on 2 good legs) without the benefit of being able to see him at the height of his powers with both legs being healthy while all of his physical tools are on full display. This is why I can't automatically agree when people say some of these other all-time greats are better than TD. That's when I get accused of being biased. Maybe some of those guys were more physically talented than TD, but because of how important the entire package is, that's of limited value. It's also practically impossible to prove because of TD only having 1 healthy leg.

    Let's look at what Tim Duncan accomplished after his knee injury:

    - 4 championships
    -2 MVPs
    -2 NBA Finals MVPs
    -13 All-Star selections
    -12 All-NBA selections
    -12 NBA All-Defensive Team selections

    There are players in the Hall Of Fame......LOTS OF THEM, who ended their careers reasonably healthy and don't have a resume like this period. TD accomplished all of that in a diminished physical state. Again, this should be weighed heavily in discussions for the greatest player ever. With all due respect to what "The Immortal 6" accomplished in their careers and what they did for the game, I don't remember watching or reading anything about any of them racking up credentials like that while dragging around a semi-useless knee for roughly 85% of their careers. In fact, with the exception of Kareem, TD played longer on 1 leg than the rest of them played their whole careers with 2 legs.

  20. #95
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    terrible edgelord take by Jackson. Who was softer than Tiago his second go around. He's about mcdyess level spur

  21. #96
    Veteran J_Paco's Avatar
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    Here's a Facebook post of me explaining to a younger Spurs fan how significant Tim's comeback was from the injury:

    Because Tim Duncan had such a long and successful career, there is one important thing that people either don't realize or eventually forget: he played most of his career on 1 good leg. Having a physical disadvantage that kept him from reaching his true potential and still having the career he had only enhances his greatness in my eyes. This ABSOLUTELY has to be factored into the equation when you analyze TD's career and compare him to other all-time greats. Why? TD was only at his best physically for the first 3 years of his career.

    People are comparing the Tim Duncan of his last 16 years to the peaks of those other greats (on 2 good legs) without the benefit of being able to see him at the height of his powers with both legs being healthy while all of his physical tools are on full display. This is why I can't automatically agree when people say some of these other all-time greats are better than TD. That's when I get accused of being biased. Maybe some of those guys were more physically talented than TD, but because of how important the entire package is, that's of limited value. It's also practically impossible to prove because of TD only having 1 healthy leg.

    Let's look at what Tim Duncan accomplished after his knee injury:

    - 4 championships
    -2 MVPs
    -2 NBA Finals MVPs
    -13 All-Star selections
    -12 All-NBA selections
    -12 NBA All-Defensive Team selections

    There are players in the Hall Of Fame......LOTS OF THEM, who ended their careers reasonably healthy and don't have a resume like this period. TD accomplished all of that in a diminished physical state. Again, this should be weighed heavily in discussions for the greatest player ever. With all due respect to what "The Immortal 6" accomplished in their careers and what they did for the game, I don't remember watching or reading anything about any of them racking up credentials like that while dragging around a semi-useless knee for roughly 85% of their careers. In fact, with the exception of Kareem, TD played longer on 1 leg than the rest of them played their whole careers with 2 legs.
    Funny because with Bird the back injury was highly publicized and is constantly brought up.

    I wonder why Timmy isn't afforded the same?

    I love Magic Johnson, yet there is no way anyone will ever convince me that either he or Bird is better than Duncan.

    I know it has been mentioned a million times over, but had Timmy played in Boston, New York, Chicago or Los Angeles his legacy would be looked at quite differently.

  22. #97
    黒人の命は大切だ baseline bum's Avatar
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    Funny because with Bird the back injury was highly publicized and is constantly brought up.

    I wonder why Timmy isn't afforded the same?

    I love Magic Johnson, yet there is no way anyone will ever convince me that either he or Bird is better than Duncan.

    I know it has been mentioned a million times over, but had Timmy played in Boston, New York, Chicago or Los Angeles his legacy would be looked at quite differently.
    Simmons was pretty much the only one in the media who ever brought up how Tim was playing on basically one leg and how much it blew him away to see Duncan live, doing what he was doing, just dragging that bad leg. As soon as he hurt his good knee in 2015-16 I knew that was it.

  23. #98
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    Funny because with Bird the back injury was highly publicized and is constantly brought up.

    I wonder why Timmy isn't afforded the same?

    I love Magic Johnson, yet there is no way anyone will ever convince me that either he or Bird is better than Duncan.

    I know it has been mentioned a million times over, but had Timmy played in Boston, New York, Chicago or Los Angeles his legacy would be looked at quite differently.
    Man preach!! The double standards that Tim gets held to are ridiculous. I also can't put Magic or Larry Larry ahead of him. Neither of them were 2-way players

  24. #99
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    Simmons was pretty much the only one in the media who ever brought up how Tim was playing on basically one leg and how much it blew him away to see Duncan live, doing what he was doing, just dragging that bad leg. As soon as he hurt his good knee in 2015-16 I knew that was it.
    Facts!!

  25. #100
    Believe. Rosewood's Avatar
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    Timmy never RAPED!

    End of discussion.
    i was looking for this.

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