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  1. #26
    Every game is game 1 Seventyniner's Avatar
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    On offense, I can see the point. While Duncan had impeccable footwork in the post, Hakeem's offensive arsenal was devastating.

    I'd take Tim for individual defense, but again it's close.

    What clinches it for me is team defense. Duncan is perhaps the best team defensive anchor I have ever seen, in terms of directing traffic, communicating, and general awareness of where to be and what to do. To me, this is why he was so effective even late in his career when he couldn't jump over a phone book.

  2. #27
    "The ball don't lie." dbestpro's Avatar
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    Hakem was a center. Duncan was really a PF. There really use to be a difference.

  3. #28
    Veteran weebo's Avatar
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    I don't get it. I consider TD a GOAT. I mean. What's the criteria? All these ex-ballers putting other guys ahead of TD, why? TD did everything you're supposed to do and especially WIN. He won POs series, les, has a winning percentage of over 70%.

  4. #29
    Believe. MultiTroll's Avatar
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    Defense.
    Duncan.

  5. #30
    Groundhog Day TDfan2007's Avatar
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    Eh, it's kind of splitting hairs between the two of them, but I can see the argument for Hakeem being more skilled.

    Post play: slight edge to Hakeem
    Faceup game: slight edge to Timmy
    Outside shooting: wash
    FT shooting: big edge to Hakeem
    Passing: Timmy is the clearly better passer
    Rebounding: wash
    Individual defense: slight edge to Hakeem
    Team defense: slight edge to Timmy

    The key thing here is that Ellie played with Hakeem at his absolute peak, and he played with Timmy just before his peak, so it's not exactly a fair comparison from his point of view. Either way, and this is key, being more skilled doesn't make you a greater/better player. There are plenty of players in the NBA who were more skilled than Shaq, but very few who were greater.

  6. #31
    Groundhog Day TDfan2007's Avatar
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    On offense, I can see the point. While Duncan had impeccable footwork in the post, Hakeem's offensive arsenal was devastating.

    I'd take Tim for individual defense, but again it's close.

    What clinches it for me is team defense. Duncan is perhaps the best team defensive anchor I have ever seen, in terms of directing traffic, communicating, and general awareness of where to be and what to do. To me, this is why he was so effective even late in his career when he couldn't jump over a phone book.
    This is a really fair take imo. I don't think anyone other than maybe Larry Bird or Magic had TD's spatial awareness. It was uncanny.

  7. #32
    Believe. GAustex's Avatar
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    Tim was a better leader and fulcrum of the team.
    Dream was a handful.

  8. #33
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    I don't get it. I consider TD a GOAT. I mean. What's the criteria? All these ex-ballers putting other guys ahead of TD, why? TD did everything you're supposed to do and especially WIN. He won POs series, les, has a winning percentage of over 70%.
    It's all about popularity and not talent.

  9. #34
    Veteran spurs10's Avatar
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    Elie and Jackson are just two more people he doesn't need to deal with in the future.. He's a Hall Of Fame shoe-in and they've simply made their coattail relationship with him meaningless. They both played a part in his legacy, but have cheapened that relationship with him.....the greatest of all time.

  10. #35
    Veteran BG_Spurs_Fan's Avatar
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    Ugh, so who's the next salty asshole ex teammate to talk TD down?

    I'd go for AJ.

  11. #36
    coffee's for closers FrostKing's Avatar
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    I would draft Tim over Hakeem
    Last edited by FrostKing; 05-25-2020 at 05:03 AM.

  12. #37
    Groundhog Day TDfan2007's Avatar
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    This is not talking down Timmy, guys These dudes are being asked to compare players and then giving honest opinions. There is an argument for Hakeem being more skilled, and Ellie played with him for more years and at his absolute peak, so it's understandable that he'd pick Hakeem.

    What Horry said about Hakeem being 20x better than Timmy was disrespectful and obviously stupid, but Jax and Ellie aren't disrespecting him just by saying that they prefer another ALL TIME HoF talent.

  13. #38
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    Tim was a better leader and fulcrum of the team.
    Dream was a handful.
    I remember when the Rockets were trying to trade Hakeem to Miami, in a deal that had Rony Seikly as the centerpiece, but the Heat turned it down.

  14. #39
    Believe. Michael Jordan.'s Avatar
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    Did you even know who Popovich and Buford were before Duncan arrived? He made them, just like all great players make coaches/GM's . . . it all of about 5 minutes after he retired for them to not look so smart anymore.

    The fact that they remained in contention and won a championship (without another superstar/star) while in the midst of retooling was a testament to Duncan not needing them.
    Weren’t the Spurs winning 60 something games a few years before Duncan arrived?

  15. #40
    Believe. Michael Jordan.'s Avatar
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    Post play, Hakeem was way better than Duncan.

  16. #41
    Believe. Michael Jordan.'s Avatar
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    Individual defense Hakeem has the most blocks all time and is top 10 in steals. He was more than slightly better individually

  17. #42
    Believe.
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    Weren’t the Spurs winning 60 something games a few years before Duncan arrived?
    Pop didn't coach until the 96-97 season.

  18. #43
    Believe. Michael Jordan.'s Avatar
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    Pop didn't coach until the 96-97 season.
    I know. I used that example to show the Spurs organization was still winning games and was a better organization.

  19. #44
    Believe. Michael Jordan.'s Avatar
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    Also longevity wise, Duncan never averaged over 35 minutes a game during the regular season after he was 27. So his minutes lowering in his prime helped him. Dream was averaging 41 MPG at 31 or something and was consistently playing more than 35 MPG into his 30’s. There was no luxury to rest him or play less minutes

  20. #45
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    Weren’t the Spurs winning 60 something games a few years before Duncan arrived?
    The 1994-95 season was the first time in Spurs history that they won 60 games.

  21. #46
    Fan Since 93 SayTown's Avatar
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    It's not Duncan's fault that he had good perimeter defenders around him that kept their defenders out of the paint thus negating his block opportunities. Duncan is easily the better team defender.

  22. #47
    coffee's for closers FrostKing's Avatar
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    Peak Hakeem is Top 3 center. Duncan is a classic PF judged by an Era with stretch 4's

    Tim clearly the better career and I wouldn't count him out even at Hakeem's height.

  23. #48
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    There's no functional difference in the role they played on either side of the ball. Duncan was always a C, he just started next to another C and primarily played nominal PF for his first 9 seasons, which is why it's accurate to refer to him as the greatest PF of all-time.

    Weren’t the Spurs winning 60 something games a few years before Duncan arrived?
    Primarily thanks to Robinson, who was arguably the best regular season player in the league at the time.

    Using counting stats to determine who the better defender was. Duncan is arguably the greatest team defender of all-time.

    They actually scored on basically equal efficiency. The difference was, Olajuwon played more and had a higher usage, therefore he averaged more points. As ever, the catch all metrics provide far greater insight.

  24. #49
    Believe. TD4THREE's Avatar
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    Individual defense Hakeem has the most blocks all time and is top 10 in steals. He was more than slightly better individually
    Duncan didn't have the luxury of several of his prime years being played in the blistering pace that was the 80s NBA, but rather the sluggish paced era of the late 90s and early to mid 2000s. How many guys from Tim's era were averaging 4+ blocks a game like the half dozen or more that did so from Hakeem's era? The last 20 years if you averaged 2-3 blocks a game, you were doing something, back then not really.

  25. #50
    Veteran 8FOR!3's Avatar
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    I have to point out that Elie was only in the league for Duncan's first few years so he didn't really see him develop his skills over his career from a teammate or compe ive viewpoint anyways.

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