'Stunning!' : Unemployment Falls to 13.3% as US Adds 2.5M Jobs Despite Pandemic

[spurraider21]

Because he's having a discussion, not just googling for answers. Part of the discussion includes finding out what the other person believes to be true, and if that person isn't willing to disclose that, perhaps someone else can take over the discussion. Not all coroners are doctors. Besides if the doctor knows it's COVID but doesn't treat it as such, then he is indeed letting the patient die. If the attending physician didn't know, then the coroner didn't know.

he's free to PM if he doesnt want others to chime in

nowhere in bb's theory did he insisnt that doctors didnt treat covid patients as covid patients, but was specifically referring to the listed cause of death

[DarrinS]

I wasn't asking you

So San Antonio has ~100 ventilators available for the whole city (shockingly low imo). At no point were we ever close to to using even half of those. At no point have ICU's been overwhelmed, in fact hospitalists are calling pcp's and begging them to let them see their hospital pts because they have no work.

Under bb's conspiracy theory it's all a lie and doctors are letting people go home and die of pneumonia.

Unless he wants to give more details on his conspiracy theory.

Yeah, I'm not buying this theory of mystery pneumonia deaths to hide covid-19 deaths. That's not what I'm hearing from people that would definitely know. There's actually financial incentive to label the pneumonia death as covid-19.

[DMC]

he's free to PM if he doesnt want others to chime in

nowhere in bb's theory did he insisnt that doctors didnt treat covid patients as covid patients, but was specifically referring to the listed cause of death

OK, if the doctors didn't treat them as covid patients (because they didn't test/know), why would the coroner? If they were missed, how is that a conspiracy? Please enlighten me.

[ElNono]

You think NY is going to dig up 6 thousand people to fill the stat sheets? How about cremations? Reassembly?

That's what I meant by 'whenever possible'.

What I'm pointing out is that I don't know how prevalent is the testing of the deceased for the virus, and whether that only takes place if there's any indication that the death might've been due to it.

Also, the efforts to identify patient zero in each state could also be varied.

[spurraider21]

OK, if the doctors didn't treat them as covid patients (because they didn't test/know), why would the coroner? If they were missed, how is that a conspiracy? Please enlighten me.

the conspiracy is that they were covid patients who were treated as covid patients and when they died they listed the cause of death as something other than covid

[boutons_deux]

"You need to prove Texas ..."

bull

There's no way a citizen can prove C19 deaths were SYSTEMATICALLY attributed to pneumonia.

The "excess deaths" phenomenon has been seen in several states and in other countries during the pandemic,

Even before the pandemic had an "official" FIRST CASE,

causing the medical people to think the earliest pneumonia deaths were actually C19 deaths.

And of course, with no C19 testing available in Dec/Jan/Feb, the docs couldn't have proven C19 anyway.

rightwingnutjobs are saying "excessive deaths", like 2x to 4x excessive, during the pandemic were not C19, but they have no other explanation.

Just another rhetorical tactic of "sowing doubt", denying objective reality, to defend Trash's fatal up.

[baseline bum]

Yeah, I'm not buying this theory of mystery pneumonia deaths to hide covid-19 deaths. That's not what I'm hearing from people that would definitely know. There's actually financial incentive to label the pneumonia death as covid-19.

Can you think of any other good reason why pneumonia deaths would be so ridiculously high this year in Texas and Florida from Feb-May in comparison to other recent years?

[baseline bum]

You need to prove Texas has "shifted" the deaths before you get the follow up. Prior to testing, people died of symptoms. This is true in many if not all states up to and including New York. So if Texas shifted the deaths to fool the stats, so did all other states.

Oh off man, you made allegations about South Korea lying without any proof.

[ChumpDumper]

If they mark it as both COVID and pneumonia, fine. I'll look around for both numbers.

[spurraider21]

Can you think of any other good reason why pneumonia deaths would be so ridiculously high this year in Texas and Florida from Feb-May in comparison to other recent years?

https://www.politifact.com/factcheck...deaths-uses-f/

[DarrinS]

If they mark it as both COVID and pneumonia, fine. I'll look around for both numbers.

https://www.politifact.com/factcheck...deaths-uses-f/

Welp

[ChumpDumper]

Welp

I read that, thanks.

[baseline bum]

https://www.politifact.com/factcheck...deaths-uses-f/

Here is the CDC's link:

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm

For Florida they say

Pneumonia deaths: 5,872
Deaths with pneumonia and COVID 19: 1,146

Were there ~3800 heart attacks or strokes from people who died with pneumonia? I'd like to see someone in the media square away that difference between the two numbers, especially since Florida has already been credibly accused of fudging numbers.

[DarrinS]

Here is the CDC's link:

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm

For Florida they say

Pneumonia deaths: 5,872
Deaths with pneumonia and COVID 19: 1,146

Were there ~3800 heart attacks or strokes from people who died with pneumonia? I'd like to see someone in the media square away that difference between the two numbers, especially since Florida has already been credibly accused of fudging numbers.

Doubling down? Really?

[DMC]

That's what I meant by 'whenever possible'.

What I'm pointing out is that I don't know how prevalent is the testing of the deceased for the virus, and whether that only takes place if there's any indication that the death might've been due to it.

Also, the efforts to identify patient zero in each state could also be varied.

I highly doubt (know for a fact actually) that testing kits were in short supply and not being used on dead people.

[DMC]

Even the flu deaths has a range of 24 - 63K deaths because they simply don't know, because people weren't tested before they died for whatever reason.

[spurraider21]

Here is the CDC's link:

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm

For Florida they say

Pneumonia deaths: 5,872
Deaths with pneumonia and COVID 19: 1,146

Were there ~3800 heart attacks or strokes from people who died with pneumonia? I'd like to see someone in the media square away that difference between the two numbers, especially since Florida has already been credibly accused of fudging numbers.

thanks. i hadn't seen the figures you were citing, but its interesting, doesn't really line up with the article i linked

[baseline bum]

Doubling down? Really?

Doubling down on what? On asking if 3800 or so of these deaths with pneumonia will be considered deaths from something else like heart attack or stroke if the person was killed by those while admitted with pneumonia? And Florida has been credibly accused of fudging numbers, I don't see what's so controversial about saying that.

[DarrinS]

Doubling down on what? On asking if 3800 or so of these deaths with pneumonia will be considered deaths from something else like heart attack or stroke if the person was killed by those while admitted with pneumonia? And Florida has been credibly accused of fudging numbers, I don't see what's so controversial about saying that.

So, the hospitals coding the cause of death don't want the extra covid money and/or don't want to make the governor look bad? Lol.

And what is your source for "Florida has been credibly accused of fudging numbers"?

[baseline bum]

So, the hospitals coding the cause of death don't want the extra covid money and/or don't want to make the governor look bad? Lol.

Just wondering how you get such a discrepancy, hence asking about heart attack and stroke deaths. Pneumonia is a pretty serious thing to have so I'd imagine it would have to be something that comes on fast like heart attack or stroke to overrule pneumonia as a cause of death for someone admitted with pneumonia.

And what is your source for "Florida has been credibly accused of fudging numbers"?

From the article sr21 posted that you didn't read:

Florida’s public data reporting about COVID-19 deaths has drawn scrutiny. In May, a state Department of Health employee said she was pressured to manipulate data and was fired. A spokeswoman for Gov. Ron DeSantis said the employee had been insubordinate and the state denied any manipulation of the data. However, county medical examiners have reported higher death counts than the state.

[DMC]

Dr in Colorado made similar claims and was called a lunatic by the left. I guess it only matters how the state voted last election.

[Will Hunting]

Funny how you guys just pretend the Covid didn't have anything to do with it and compare apples to oranges.

Almost as funny as you pretending the COVID outbreak was completely outside of Trump’s control.

[ChumpDumper]

Dr in Colorado made similar claims and was called a lunatic by the left. I guess it only matters how the state voted last election.

What do you think of the claims themselves?

[DarrinS]

Just wondering how you get such a discrepancy, hence asking about heart attack and stroke deaths. Pneumonia is a pretty serious thing to have so I'd imagine it would have to be something that comes on fast like heart attack or stroke to overrule pneumonia as a cause of death for someone admitted with pneumonia.



From the article sr21 posted that you didn't read:

Florida’s public data reporting about COVID-19 deaths has drawn scrutiny. In May, a state Department of Health employee said she was pressured to manipulate data and was fired. A spokeswoman for Gov. Ron DeSantis said the employee had been insubordinate and the state denied any manipulation of the data. However, county medical examiners have reported higher death counts than the state.

I'll look into the data issues you've highlighted.

You should dig deeper into the Rebekah Jones story.

[SnakeBoy]

bb's conspiracy theory doesnt require doctors to let people go home and die of pneuomina. it requires doctors to write "pneumonia" as the cause of death after somebody dies from covid

lol that's bull . The conspiracy theory is that red states are getting hit just as hard as some blue states but are lying about it. In order for that to be true either our hospitals are overwhelmed and there is a gian t cover up OR the hospitals and doctors are in on the conspiracy and not treating covid patients.

why does it matter is i answered or if he answered, as long as your question is answered?

Because presumably you don't know what the conspiracy theory is. I've asked them (BB and Matt Damon) to lay it out clearly but so far they refuse to do so.