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  1. #26
    Because I choose to. Neo.'s Avatar
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    that bull narrative again, double standards SMH


    mj sees the double ready to come and dishes it to a wide open shooter = the right play!

    kobe sees the double ready to come and decides to take a horrible shot and misses horribly = killer instinct!

    lebron sees the double ready to come and dishes it to a wide open shooter = SOFT. NO KILLER INSTINCT. PASSIVE. NO SKILLS.

    most illogical.

  2. #27
    Veteran
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    11,973
    Here's the thing with Kobe. He's not the GOAT. He's not an Alpha.

    He is the GREATEST beta of all time. The absolute BEST second fiddle ever.

    If Iverson, Carter or McGrady were in the same role, with the same teams, with Phil, they'd have that same spot.

    He is perfectly rated at 12. He was given a 2-slot bump out of death bias.

    There is nothing shameful or wrong being the GREATEST Beta ever.

    I won't deny he's a top 15 player, what I will deny is the false narrative he was a stone-cold killer who was the rock of every le team he was on and that's just not true. He's the NBA brick leader who killed the franchise for an entire decade because he was unlikeable. He never won anything as THE guy. He choked a 3-1 lead. But that's ok, that is who he is and why he isn't an Alpha.

  3. #28
    4-25-20 Will Hunting's Avatar
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    Here's the thing with Kobe. He's not the GOAT. He's not an Alpha.

    He is the GREATEST beta of all time. The absolute BEST second fiddle ever.

    If Iverson, Carter or McGrady were in the same role, with the same teams, with Phil, they'd have that same spot.

    He is perfectly rated at 12. He was given a 2-slot bump out of death bias.

    There is nothing shameful or wrong being the GREATEST Beta ever.

    I won't deny he's a top 15 player, what I will deny is the false narrative he was a stone-cold killer who was the rock of every le team he was on and that's just not true. He's the NBA brick leader who killed the franchise for an entire decade because he was unlikeable. He never won anything as THE guy. He choked a 3-1 lead. But that's ok, that is who he is and why he isn't an Alpha.
    Not sure about Iverson just because of his height, but no question re: Tmac. A duo of McGrady and prime Shaq would have raped the NBA the way like it was a hotel cleaning lady in Eagle Colorado.

  4. #29
    Believe. Dirks_Finale's Avatar
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    2009 and 2010 refute that idea.

    Memphis was not winning with Pau leading their team. The Lakers back to back was Kobe as the leader. That team had Kobe DNA as a part of it. Bums like Vujacic grew hair on their chests & somehow resembled NBA players with him as the guy.

    You are right about him killing the franchise for a decade and being unlikable.

    Here's the thing with Kobe. He's not the GOAT. He's not an Alpha.

    He is the GREATEST beta of all time. The absolute BEST second fiddle ever.

    If Iverson, Carter or McGrady were in the same role, with the same teams, with Phil, they'd have that same spot.

    He is perfectly rated at 12. He was given a 2-slot bump out of death bias.

    There is nothing shameful or wrong being the GREATEST Beta ever.

    I won't deny he's a top 15 player, what I will deny is the false narrative he was a stone-cold killer who was the rock of every le team he was on and that's just not true. He's the NBA brick leader who killed the franchise for an entire decade because he was unlikeable. He never won anything as THE guy. He choked a 3-1 lead. But that's ok, that is who he is and why he isn't an Alpha.

  5. #30
    Believe. MultiTroll's Avatar
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    2009 and 2010 refute that idea.

    Memphis was not winning with Pau leading their team. The Lakers back to back was Kobe as the leader. That team had Kobe DNA as a part of it. Bums like Vujacic grew hair on their chests & somehow resembled NBA players with him as the guy.

    You are right about him killing the franchise for a decade and being unlikable.
    Kirbys record when having neither a Shaq, Pau along with stacked role players and LakerRef?
    Ya, no playoff. Oh wait, one with a quit. No playoff series wins. None.

  6. #31
    Believe. MultiTroll's Avatar
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    #2 Marketable sales and i don't have a problem with those who want to call him #1 overall.

  7. #32
    Believe. MultiTroll's Avatar
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  8. #33
    Believe. Dirks_Finale's Avatar
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    And Shaq needed Kobe, then Wade.

    And Duncan needed Drob, then TP and Manu.

    And Jordan needed Pippen and Rodman or Grant.

    Kirbys record when having neither a Shaq, Pau along with stacked role players and LakerRef?
    Ya, no playoff. Oh wait, one with a quit. No playoff series wins. None.

  9. #34
    Believe. MultiTroll's Avatar
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    And Shaq needed Kobe, then Wade.

    And Duncan needed Drob, then TP and Manu.

    And Jordan needed Pippen and Rodman or Grant.
    I was responding to this:
    Memphis was not winning with Pau leading their team.
    and the notion that Kirby led the Lakers in 2009 and 2010.

    He is the all time leader in Food Stamps recipient.
    Timmy Dunks won 50+ games and never missed the playoffs his entire career. All with the least amount of food stamps All Time.
    Kirby is not even in the same sentence.

  10. #35
    Believe. Dirks_Finale's Avatar
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    I think Duncan is the better overall player and has had a better career. Just goes unnoticed because it happened in San Antonio.

    But let's be reasonable -- -when has Tim ever had a roster this bad:


    https://www.basketball-reference.com.../LAL/2006.html

    Starting lineup:

    C- Chris Mihm
    PF- Kwame Brown
    SF- Lamar Odom
    SG- Kobe
    PG- Smush Parker

    Kwame Brown and Rec-league Smush Parker in the same lineup.

    Stephen A, take over from here


    I was responding to this:
    and the notion that Kirby led the Lakers in 2009 and 2010.

    He is the all time leader in Food Stamps recipient.
    Timmy Dunks won 50+ games and never missed the playoffs his entire career. All with the least amount of food stamps All Time.
    Kirby is not even in the same sentence.

  11. #36
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    Lol but those acting like he doesnt have a case somewhere between 6 and 12 or so . are crazy or hating. I cant put him top 5 but top 10? No question.
    He's between 12 and 15 and dropping, tbh. Guys like Durant, Kawhi, Curry and maybe even Harden will end up above him.

  12. #37
    Drive for Five! ambchang's Avatar
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    Magic’s in the convo as well.

  13. #38
    6X ST MVP
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    Magic’s in the convo as well.
    Yea, he's the best #2, tbh.
    Like Kobe he was too given an undeserved MVP (2X) to justify the marketing hype.

  14. #39
    Believe. Kyle_Kuzma's Avatar
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    He's between 12 and 15 and dropping, tbh. Guys like Durant, Kawhi, Curry and maybe even Harden will end up above him.
    you dumb piece of . nobody cares about spursfan opinions.

  15. #40
    6X ST MVP
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    you dumb piece of . nobody cares about spursfan opinions.
    Dude, don't log onto your alts just to go full re .

  16. #41
    6X ST MVP
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    Disney Sports always teamed a lily white guy with Stephen A to contrast him as so impactful.

  17. #42
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    Yea, he's the best #2, tbh.
    Like Kobe he was too given an undeserved MVP (2X) to justify the marketing hype.
    the one he stole from Barkley?
    yep

  18. #43
    6X ST MVP
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    the one he stole from Barkley?
    yep
    The second one stolen from Barkley.
    The first one was stolen from Bird.
    Bird had to donate one to Jordan and one Earvin.
    NBA pioneered affirmative action.

  19. #44
    Enemy of the System Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    Kobe is IMO the 3rd best player ever after Jordan and Duncan. 2nd best non-big to ever play. Yes guys like Bird, Magic and Erving were also great but they played on stacked teams. Those 1980s Celtics and Lakers were a machine, stacked from top to bottom. Kobe willed shoddy teams to the playoffs and an aging, oft injured #2 piece in Gasoft to two championships. Yes Kobe hogged the ball and always wanted the big shot for himself, but he was pretty damn elite at it, so well deserved IMO.

    I think (and hope) Leonard has a solid chance to break into the top-5 conversation at some point.

  20. #45
    Enemy of the System Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    Bird had to donate one to Jordan and one Earvin.
    NBA pioneered affirmative action.
    Irvin Magic Johnson
    Julius Irving
    Kyrie "Flat Earth" Earvin
    David "Dallas Druggy" Ervin
    Michael "The Playmaker" Erving

    Did I get them all right?

  21. #46
    Believe. Dirks_Finale's Avatar
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    He said... bonafide scrub

    Disney Sports always teamed a lily white guy with Stephen A to contrast him as so impactful.

  22. #47
    Believe. i'm_still_beta's Avatar
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    Kobe had stacked teams too. He had peak Shaq (it can't be stacked any more than that) and very strong late 00's Lakers team. He had weak team in the middle of the decade but he has only himself to blame for that because he ran Shaq out of town.

  23. #48
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    The second one stolen from Barkley.
    The first one was stolen from Bird.
    Bird had to donate one to Jordan and one Earvin.
    NBA pioneered affirmative action.
    and Kareem should have won FMVP in 1980 tbh

  24. #49
    Enemy of the System Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    Kobe had stacked teams too. He had peak Shaq (it can't be stacked any more than that) and very strong late 00's Lakers team. He had weak team in the middle of the decade but he has only himself to blame for that because he ran Shaq out of town.
    I don't really agree. Peak Shaq was fantastic but had one fatal flaw and Kobe was the only real alternative to that. Kobe, not Shaq, kept the Lakers alive for their big playoff push with a month of consecutive 40-plus-point games when Shaq was out injured in 2003. The rest of the guys on the Early 00s teams were all old specialist types who couldn't generate any offense for themselves.

    The Late 00s le teams were tall but not all that talented. It was still Kobe and a bunch of second tier players, but at least they weren't third rate starters like Kwame, Mihm, Smush, Devean George etc.

    Kobe was fantastic and the league absolutely revolved around him from 2006 to 2011.

  25. #50
    Believe. Kyle_Kuzma's Avatar
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    Kobe is IMO the 3rd best player ever after Jordan and Duncan. 2nd best non-big to ever play. Yes guys like Bird, Magic and Erving were also great but they played on stacked teams. Those 1980s Celtics and Lakers were a machine, stacked from top to bottom. Kobe willed shoddy teams to the playoffs and an aging, oft injured #2 piece in Gasoft to two championships. Yes Kobe hogged the ball and always wanted the big shot for himself, but he was pretty damn elite at it, so well deserved IMO.

    I think (and hope) Leonard has a solid chance to break into the top-5 conversation at some point.

    a spurfan with a brain.

    kudos

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