Keldon to have dominant primary role in the future for San Antonio Spurs?

[Chomag]

Steal of that draft, and he has quickly become my favorite current Spur to watch. If Pop dares to let players like Forbes eat his playing time then I don't know what to say.

[exstatic]

In two years people are going to be saying “How The do the Spurs keep doing this - they got KY and now they got Keldon all non lottery draft picks”.

Well, according to Calipari, FIVE teams passed on him, because he didn’t work out for them. The reality is, you can’t work out for 30 teams. There isn’t time, you risk injury, and even if you’re not injured, the last half of the workouts will be crap, because of physical exhaustion. You pick a group of maybe 8 teams who pick in the area of the draft where you’re projected to be picked, and you work out for them.

I’d like to personally thank those 5 GMs for being so butt hurt, though. . I can almost guarantee KJ didn’t work out for the Spurs.

[Chinook]

Extremely fortunate that the Spurs got him at 29 -- that they had a 29th pick to get him at all. There's very little doubt in my mind that SA legit passed on Johnson for Sam and would've done so even if the team only had one first. KJ was expected to go in the teens, but it wouldn't surprise me if he worked out for lotto teams only similar to how Kyle Anderson only worked out for middle-round teams. Johnson's camp didn't seem to get that there were real questions about him given his role in college and disappointing measurements at the combine. His tape didn't speak for itself, and he needed to actively court GMs if he wanted to be drafted earlier.

The thing is, maybe the Spurs could've taken Bazley or Clarke at 19. But Johnson seems like a player either team would've picked had their guy been gone. I don't think it's realistic to assume the Spurs could've doubled up on good prospects in the last 11 picks of the round.

[Chinook]

Have people talked about this?

https://www.basketball-reference.com.../NBA_2019.html

So even though he barely played, Johnson was 13th among rookies in win-shares. KJ played in 17 games. The only player above him on the list that played fewer than 43 games is Zion. In terms of WS/48, Johnson finished the season at second. It was a similar thing with BPM (fifth) and VORP (seventh). Literally the only rookie you can say was better across the board was Clarke (#WillNeverBeOkay). It's hard to tell if the bubble helped or hurt his numbers. I don't mean if his stats are higher because of the last eight games -- that's obvious. But whether he would have been able to reach and sustain his impact over the course of a regular season.

Johnson's stats stack up well with the rest of the team. The aggregate stats still have him as a top-10 player on the club, and the rate stats have him as a top five. We'll see how he progresses in what will hopefully be a normal season next year. Certainly though, he's the most promising player currently on the roster. I'm still a huge Walker fan, but he had a bad year, with the bubble not helping his stats at all. He needs to come back with a reliable way to score in the NBA. That should be from finishing consistently from the rim, but an accurate shot would at least be something. Otherwise a guy like Nesmith could come in and completely remove Walker from the future rotation.

[Dejounte]

Johnson's first commercial?

https://instagram.com/stories/keldon...d=ml714cq1gy0n

[ace3g]

[Sugus]

Have people talked about this?

https://www.basketball-reference.com.../NBA_2019.html

So even though he barely played, Johnson was 13th among rookies in win-shares. KJ played in 17 games. The only player above him on the list that played fewer than 43 games is Zion. In terms of WS/48, Johnson finished the season at second. It was a similar thing with BPM (fifth) and VORP (seventh). Literally the only rookie you can say was better across the board was Clarke (#WillNeverBeOkay). It's hard to tell if the bubble helped or hurt his numbers. I don't mean if his stats are higher because of the last eight games -- that's obvious. But whether he would have been able to reach and sustain his impact over the course of a regular season.

Johnson's stats stack up well with the rest of the team. The aggregate stats still have him as a top-10 player on the club, and the rate stats have him as a top five. We'll see how he progresses in what will hopefully be a normal season next year. Certainly though, he's the most promising player currently on the roster. I'm still a huge Walker fan, but he had a bad year, with the bubble not helping his stats at all. He needs to come back with a reliable way to score in the NBA. That should be from finishing consistently from the rim, but an accurate shot would at least be something. Otherwise a guy like Nesmith could come in and completely remove Walker from the future rotation.

Thanks for the stats, really interesting stuff. The eye test for sure backs it up; I think Keldon has the potential to become that go-to scorer, he's a walking bucket. But it's his defensive upside that has me the most intrigued... He played some great defense on Westbrook, which is quite the matchup especially for a rookie. Definitely the guy that's shown the most potential (and ability to reach it) on our team. Agree that Lonnie was underwhelming... I think he's gonna come back next year a lot better though. He knows he ed up, and the things he has to work on were really evident in the bubble, much more so than in the regular season. From all accounts, Lonnie has some good work ethic, so I'm expecting him to work on his finishing and shooting game full-time in the off-season. His body's ready, he's bulked up plenty, now he needs the finishing touches.

I have to say, the bubble opportunity was great for the Spurs. It gave everyone a much clearer picture of where the team is at, and what they can do, and what they should do moving forward. If the season had just been cancelled, we might have been looking at a much more different (and bleaker) outlook for next season and beyond.

[TD 21]

Have people talked about this?

https://www.basketball-reference.com.../NBA_2019.html

So even though he barely played, Johnson was 13th among rookies in win-shares. KJ played in 17 games. The only player above him on the list that played fewer than 43 games is Zion. In terms of WS/48, Johnson finished the season at second. It was a similar thing with BPM (fifth) and VORP (seventh). Literally the only rookie you can say was better across the board was Clarke (#WillNeverBeOkay). It's hard to tell if the bubble helped or hurt his numbers. I don't mean if his stats are higher because of the last eight games -- that's obvious. But whether he would have been able to reach and sustain his impact over the course of a regular season.

Johnson's stats stack up well with the rest of the team. The aggregate stats still have him as a top-10 player on the club, and the rate stats have him as a top five. We'll see how he progresses in what will hopefully be a normal season next year. Certainly though, he's the most promising player currently on the roster. I'm still a huge Walker fan, but he had a bad year, with the bubble not helping his stats at all. He needs to come back with a reliable way to score in the NBA. That should be from finishing consistently from the rim, but an accurate shot would at least be something. Otherwise a guy like Nesmith could come in and completely remove Walker from the future rotation.

I noticed it. Few games before the bubble, didn't really pay it no mind. Few games into the bubble, thought it was interesting, nothing more. But the sample size, while still small, is just enough now to at least be notable. Obviously doesn't mean he's destined for s om (still too early to make any definitive declarations), but it's definitely worth keeping an eye on.

As much as the perception is supers om and s om is a process (obviously true 99% of the time) there are usually early signs that catch all metrics bare out.

[Obi Juan Kenobi]

Looking good KJ!!!

This guy is making me forget about Nephew more and more everyday...

[R. DeMurre]

KJ got meaningful minutes in the last 12 games the Spurs played. His total includes 4 games in March and 8 in the restart.
If you take the last 12 games of each of these players, this is the +/- you get:


Keldon: +63
White: +56
Walker: +10

Forbes: -53
Belinelli: -12

One reason to feel optimistic about next season.


https://www.basketball-reference.com...1/gamelog/2020
https://www.basketball-reference.com...4/gamelog/2020
https://www.basketball-reference.com...1/gamelog/2020
https://www.basketball-reference.com...1/gamelog/2020
https://www.basketball-reference.com...1/gamelog/2020

Have people talked about this?

https://www.basketball-reference.com.../NBA_2019.html

So even though he barely played, Johnson was 13th among rookies in win-shares. KJ played in 17 games. The only player above him on the list that played fewer than 43 games is Zion. In terms of WS/48, Johnson finished the season at second. It was a similar thing with BPM (fifth) and VORP (seventh). Literally the only rookie you can say was better across the board was Clarke (#WillNeverBeOkay). It's hard to tell if the bubble helped or hurt his numbers. I don't mean if his stats are higher because of the last eight games -- that's obvious. But whether he would have been able to reach and sustain his impact over the course of a regular season.

Johnson's stats stack up well with the rest of the team. The aggregate stats still have him as a top-10 player on the club, and the rate stats have him as a top five. We'll see how he progresses in what will hopefully be a normal season next year. Certainly though, he's the most promising player currently on the roster. I'm still a huge Walker fan, but he had a bad year, with the bubble not helping his stats at all. He needs to come back with a reliable way to score in the NBA. That should be from finishing consistently from the rim, but an accurate shot would at least be something.

Thanks for the stats, really interesting stuff. The eye test for sure backs it up; I think Keldon has the potential to become that go-to scorer, he's a walking bucket. But it's his defensive upside that has me the most intrigued... He played some great defense on Westbrook, which is quite the matchup especially for a rookie. Definitely the guy that's shown the most potential (and ability to reach it) on our team. Agree that Lonnie was underwhelming... I think he's gonna come back next year a lot better though. He knows he ed up, and the things he has to work on were really evident in the bubble, much more so than in the regular season. From all accounts, Lonnie has some good work ethic, so I'm expecting him to work on his finishing and shooting game full-time in the off-season. His body's ready, he's bulked up plenty, now he needs the finishing touches.

I have to say, the bubble opportunity was great for the Spurs. It gave everyone a much clearer picture of where the team is at, and what they can do, and what they should do moving forward. If the season had just been cancelled, we might have been looking at a much more different (and bleaker) outlook for next season and beyond.

I noticed it. Few games before the bubble, didn't really pay it no mind. Few games into the bubble, thought it was interesting, nothing more. But the sample size, while still small, is just enough now to at least be notable. Obviously doesn't mean he's destined for s om (still too early to make any definitive declarations), but it's definitely worth keeping an eye on.

As much as the perception is supers om and s om is a process (obviously true 99% of the time) there are usually early signs that catch all metrics bare out.

If the Spurs do nothing next year but give Forbes's minutes to Keldon, I think they're at least a .500 team. If Lonnie can improve his BPM to even a hair over zero (which would be an improvement over his negative BPM of the last two seasons), they're fighting for a playoff spot.

[Ocotillo]

So Keldon got right back in the gym working on his game. Where's Luka, getting some new ink?

[Sugus]

If the Spurs do nothing next year but give Forbes's minutes to Keldon, I think they're at least a .500 team. If Lonnie can improve his BPM to even a hair over zero (which would be an improvement over his negative BPM of the last two seasons), they're fighting for a playoff spot.

Hmm, I think it's not going to be as simple as just giving Keldon's minutes to Forbes and just hoping everything works out. With LMA not playing in the bubble, we've kind of forgotten how bad a fit he and DD are, especially in terms of spacing - the Spurs were constantly getting zoned by opposing teams and being dared to shoot from outside, and with our two main ball handlers (DD and Dejounte, who I expect will still be trying to fit himself into the "PG" mold next season) not being threats from deep, especially on the pull-up, I could see the Spurs struggling. Keldon would have to have a massive jump in both his efficiency and APG of threes in order to supplement this deficiency; while he has shown his form is good and he can be trusted to make catch-and-shoot 3's, I don't think he's quite ready yet to be that player the Spurs would need. Moreover, I think it'd reflect poorly on the FO to just try and trot out basically the same team, same stars, that got whopped out of the Playoffs last season while being in "win-now mode".

I'm expecting, and praying for, some more changes to the roster. It just isn't built for the modern NBA and has a number of deficiencies that can't just be hoped to be plugged up by our young players breaking out. If the plan to get back into fighting for a PO spot is just banking on the development of your young guys alone... It's gonna be a rough ride. To be honest though, even though I'd like the FO to change the roster, I'd still like them to tank out next season, so I don't really care if they bring back the same team and it predictably backfires.

So Keldon got right back in the gym working on his game. Where's Luka, getting some new ink?

I laughed at this, but the reality is that not every player is as vocal or outspoken on his workouts and effort on social media as the rest. I don't remember many videos of Nephew locked in the gym, working on his game... Yet he obviously was putting in the work in the offseasons. And the opposite of that is also true - we've all seen the plentiful videos of DJ working out, and where has that taken him? Not very far. So I'm cool with Luka being quiet about his offseason - as long as the improvements are there come training camp, of course.

[Seventyniner]

just giving Keldon's minutes to Forbes

I know you didn't actually mean this but I still when I read it.

[Ocotillo]

I laughed at this, but the reality is that not every player is as vocal or outspoken on his workouts and effort on social media as the rest. I don't remember many videos of Nephew locked in the gym, working on his game... Yet he obviously was putting in the work in the offseasons. And the opposite of that is also true - we've all seen the plentiful videos of DJ working out, and where has that taken him? Not very far. So I'm cool with Luka being quiet about his offseason - as long as the improvements are there come training camp, of course.

Yeah, I don't really know and it was more of a tongue in cheek shot based upon their reputations. I hope Luka is putting in the work.

[Seventyniner]

I laughed at this, but the reality is that not every player is as vocal or outspoken on his workouts and effort on social media as the rest. I don't remember many videos of Nephew locked in the gym, working on his game... Yet he obviously was putting in the work in the offseasons. And the opposite of that is also true - we've all seen the plentiful videos of DJ working out, and where has that taken him? Not very far. So I'm cool with Luka being quiet about his offseason - as long as the improvements are there come training camp, of course.

Well said. Another example: Duncan would have never posted workout videos even if social media had been as popular in his heyday as it is now, and his work ethic was unimpeachable.

Murray's work ethic is fine, even if he likes to put it on display. I'd blame his relative lack of progress on Pop either trying to make Murray something he isn't or allowing him to beat his head against the wall trying.

[Sugus]

I know you didn't actually mean this but I still when I read it.

That's exactly what I meant young man, I firmly believe the Spurs would be in the playoffs right now had my boy Bryn gotten a fair chance to show off his talents and Curry level shooting over that reckless rookie Keldon, gotta send him to Austin next season so he doesn't screw up my plans again...

[Sugus]

Well said. Another example: Duncan would have never posted workout videos even if social media had been as popular in his heyday as it is now, and his work ethic was unimpeachable.

Murray's work ethic is fine, even if he likes to put it on display. I'd blame his relative lack of progress on Pop either trying to make Murray something he isn't or allowing him to beat his head against the wall trying.

Agreed, I'm just picking on DJ here since he's so "flashy" about his off-season workouts, but most players in this modern age do that. It's just brand building at some point, everyone knows there's a lot of money to be made through an IG persona and endorsements, and younger fans who'll stan you and buy your merch. Though to be honest, I'm not nearly as high on DJ as I was a year or two ago; at this point, I'm kind of hoping a team desperate for a defense-first "PG" makes an offer to Pop that he can't refuse, and he becomes another team's problem. I just don't ever see him developing an IQ that makes him a true positive player, and someone who can close out games - and you just know his ego wouldn't take well to riding the pine in those situations.

[dbestpro]

Local media Kens News4 ect have done packages on Tim Duncans workouts and his big man camp. Different era and different personalities.

Roy Hibbert looks like a beast.

[RC_Drunkford]

He was then went mental or something but Timmy's big man camp got him that Max (or close to it) contract.

Hibberts career went downhill when Paul George ed his fiance

[pad300]

Hibberts career went downhill when Paul George ed his fiance

Apparently I missed a story?!? Paul George pulled a TP with Hibbert's fiancee? WTF

[R. DeMurre]

Hmm, I think it's not going to be as simple as just giving Keldon's minutes to Forbes and just hoping everything works out. With LMA not playing in the bubble, we've kind of forgotten how bad a fit he and DD are, especially in terms of spacing - the Spurs were constantly getting zoned by opposing teams and being dared to shoot from outside, and with our two main ball handlers (DD and Dejounte, who I expect will still be trying to fit himself into the "PG" mold next season) not being threats from deep, especially on the pull-up, I could see the Spurs struggling. Keldon would have to have a massive jump in both his efficiency and APG of threes in order to supplement this deficiency; while he has shown his form is good and he can be trusted to make catch-and-shoot 3's, I don't think he's quite ready yet to be that player the Spurs would need. Moreover, I think it'd reflect poorly on the FO to just try and trot out basically the same team, same stars, that got whopped out of the Playoffs last season while being in "win-now mode".

I'm expecting, and praying for, some more changes to the roster. It just isn't built for the modern NBA and has a number of deficiencies that can't just be hoped to be plugged up by our young players breaking out. If the plan to get back into fighting for a PO spot is just banking on the development of your young guys alone... It's gonna be a rough ride. To be honest though, even though I'd like the FO to change the roster, I'd still like them to tank out next season, so I don't really care if they bring back the same team and it predictably backfires.


.

I've been advocating all year for a DD trade because I think think it's addition by subtraction. And I don't think it's a case of throwing Keldon in there and hoping for the best. After all, a .500 record isn't exactly a high bar-- it's basically the Nets without KD or Kyrie or next year's Grizzlies. But I take the same view of next season as I did of this one, namely that the Spurs aren't winning a le so the only thing that matters is the development of the young prospects, and roster moves to improve the future. I think the Aldridge experiment was a noble one and did at least yield a 67 win season, but he's 35, so he's not going to be part of a championship scenario in 2022, '23, or '24. Time to move on.

[rankingtear]

I've been advocating all year for a DD trade because I think think it's addition by subtraction. And I don't think it's a case of throwing Keldon in there and hoping for the best. After all, a .500 record isn't exactly a high bar-- it's basically the Nets without KD or Kyrie or next year's Grizzlies. But I take the same view of next season as I did of this one, namely that the Spurs aren't winning a le so the only thing that matters is the development of the young prospects, and roster moves to improve the future. I think the Aldridge experiment was a noble one and did at least yield a 67 win season, but he's 35, so he's not going to be part of a championship scenario in 2022, '23, or '24. Time to move on.

Development is not as simple as playing someone 30 mins a night. If that were that easy then bottom feeders like Sacramento, Knicks and Suns wouldn't be bust factories. These playing veterans buys these prospects time. They can come in with simplified games that they can succeed in early on. This gives them confidence and allows them to develop other parts of their game without pressure of producing.

When you lose your star veterans you also lose part of your player development which i think outweighs the playing time increase. Specially now with Derozan stating he's mentoring Keldon.

[R. DeMurre]

Development is not as simple as playing someone 30 mins a night. If that were that easy then bottom feeders like Sacramento, Knicks and Suns wouldn't be bust factories. These playing veterans buys these prospects time. They can come in with simplified games that they can succeed in early on. This gives them confidence and allows them to develop other parts of their game without pressure of producing.

When you lose your star veterans you also lose part of your player development which i think outweighs the playing time increase. Specially now with Derozan stating he's mentoring Keldon.

Development is not as simple as having a guy that doesn't shoot threes, isn't a good defender, and has had mediocre advanced stats for a decade "mentor" a young player.

[rankingtear]

Development is not as simple as having a guy that doesn't shoot threes, isn't a good defender, and has had mediocre advanced stats for a decade "mentor" a young player.

You forgot Bryn max contract, Pop is senile, FO sucks, trade Dejounte for second round pick.

[RC_Drunkford]

Apparently I missed a story?!? Paul George pulled a TP with Hibbert's fiancee? WTF

yup. Why do you think the Pacers traded him and PG stayed?

“Do you remember when Lance Stephenson and Evan Turner got into that fight? It was all over Roy Hibbert and Paul George. Lance has been getting all the blame for the Pacers off nights and during that day at practice Lance says ‘y’all need to look at Roy’s ass, he’s been off ever since he found out PG was ing his ’. That’s when Evan got mad at him for exposing that in front of everybody and that sparked the fight. Roy just walked away without saying anything but ever since then it’s been a bigger downfall in his performance on the court. I don’t know for sure, but that might also be the connection to PG’s house getting broken into because all of a sudden now he doesn’t want investigators involved. Supposedly PG and Hibbert’s wife have been carrying on through instagram for a while before they ended up having sex. She felt guilty and told Hibbert and that’s how he found out originally. It’s bad because PG and Hibbert were really friends."

https://balleralert.com/profiles/blo...hibberts-wife/