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  1. #51
    Veteran cd021's Avatar
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    Well if that's the case, my proposal would obviously be moot.

    Again, I get the differences. I'm not saying Aldridge's value is equal to theirs, I'm saying I don't think he's worth multiple assets to their zero.

    One of Nurkic, Collins or the (projected) 14th pick would have to be the asset and I actually think Collins is the one they'd be least amendable to moving in this trade.

    Nurkic or 14th (plus Ariza and Hood) is an interesting debate for the Spurs, but I'd lean towards the latter because it can be used as part of a vehicle to another trade or make it easier to part with a player in a trade because they could conceivably select a similar one to replace them.
    The Hood, Ariza, Collins and a 1st package wasn't meant to net the Spurs two assets, though it would obviously work out that way. Its really the only way that the math could work on a deal without including Nurk. I don't see Portland moving their lottery pick, only their 2021 first, because if they were to acquire Aldridge and keep Nurk then that pick would probably be twenties.


    If Portland is willing to move Nurk, then Nurk and Ariza would work financially (Hood's inclusion wouldn't be necessary). That trade would have additional benefits to Portland; they could essentially offset Aldridge's salary and it would allow them to keep their first rounders.

    If they do value Collins, then they'd be able to keep him too. That could make dealing Nurk more palatable to them. For the Spurs, a healthy Nurk is obviously a good return for Aldridge- though i'd worry that the Spurs wouldn't rebuild, instead try and retool.
    Last edited by cd021; 06-12-2020 at 05:49 PM.

  2. #52
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    The Hood, Ariza, Collins and a 1st package wasn't meant to net the Spurs two assets, though it would obviously work out that way. Its really the only way that the math could work on a deal without including Nurk. I don't see Portland moving their lottery pick, only their 2021 first, because if they were to acquire Aldridge and keep Nurk then that pick would probably be twenties.


    If Portland is willing to move Nurk, then Nurk and Ariza would work financially (Hood's inclusion wouldn't be necessary). That trade would have additional benefits to Portland; they could essentially offset Aldridge's salary and it would allow them to keep their first rounders.

    If they do value Collins, then they'd be able to keep him too. That could make dealing Nurk more palatable to them. For the Spurs, a healthy Nurk is obviously a good return for Aldridge- though i'd worry that the Spurs wouldn't rebuild, instead try and retool.
    The math would work without a 1st that wouldn't even convey for a year.

    I see these as the options: 1. Aldridge for Nurkic, 2. Aldridge for Ariza, Collins, 3. Aldridge for Ariza, Hood, 1st. Salary filler could be added to either of the first two if required.

    I've thought all along that the Spurs will look to retool more so than re-build. I think they hope they have a bunch of potential core pieces in place already (including the incoming lottery pick) and will look to surround them with young veterans who can keep them somewhat compe ive as they develop. The team will still suck either way, but there's still a difference between compe ive bad and uncompe ive bad.

  3. #53
    bandwagoner fans suck ducks's Avatar
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    With the salary cap going down would this be wise ?

  4. #54
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    With the salary cap going down would this be wise ?
    Depends which variant... Aldridge for Nurkic + Pick, would save the Spurs cap-space.

  5. #55
    Veteran cd021's Avatar
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    The math would work without a 1st that wouldn't even convey for a year.

    I see these as the options: 1. Aldridge for Nurkic, 2. Aldridge for Ariza, Collins, 3. Aldridge for Ariza, Hood, 1st. Salary filler could be added to either of the first two if required.

    I've thought all along that the Spurs will look to retool more so than re-build. I think they hope they have a bunch of potential core pieces in place already (including the incoming lottery pick) and will look to surround them with young veterans who can keep them somewhat compe ive as they develop. The team will still suck either way, but there's still a difference between compe ive bad and uncompe ive bad.
    -The Aldridge For Nurk, straight up, wouldn't work. Nurk will make $14.1 million. Aldridge will make $27.7 million. Hood would need to be added to meet trade requirements.

    -The Ariza+Collins deal also wouldn't work, financially but just barely.

    -The Ariza+Hood and a 1st would just barely work financially.

    I would think Portland would to keep the outgoing salaries in the general range as Aldridge's massive salary to avoid any chance of paying the luxury tax. That's especially true with the report that the entire 20-21 season might be played without fans in the stadium ( that 40% of overall league revenue gone).

    Thats why Nurk and Ariza trade seems to be the best Nurkic trade, in theory. They get to keep their picks, Collins, add Aldridge and still stay under the luxury tax.

    If not Nurk then Collins would have to be included, otherwise they'll likely pay the tax. Ultimately, if Collins is the big holdup in in a potential Aldridge for Ariza, Collins, Hood and a '21 first then I could see Dame being the tiebreaker. That's a big enough of a deal where they'll likely at least consult with him, he'd likely approve.

    Even if they love Collins, its a big risk to turn down such a trade and risk alienating Lillard and CJ. Their in their late 20's and playing for a small market team, that is generally the time and situations were stars begin to demand trades.

  6. #56
    Veteran cd021's Avatar
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    With the salary cap going down would this be wise ?
    The trade I proposed in the article would add about $3.5 million to the Spurs cap. That would put them at around $127 million.If they're willing to trade Aldridge then it signals a rebuild. DeRozan would likely be traded too, assuming that he opts in.

    They can shed a lot of salary in a potential DeRozan trade (particularly to the Knicks, who reportedly have interest in him). They could also shop Ariza and Hood and shed even more salary. They could be underneath the lowered cap by the end of next season.

    Depends which variant... Aldridge for Nurkic + Pick, would save the Spurs cap-space.
    That trade doesn't work, financially. Also don't think Portland would move both Nurk and a pick. Nurk and Ariza would probably be the best/ most realistic Nurk package for Aldridge. Nurkic and Ariza make about $800,000 less than Aldridge next season.

  7. #57
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    Nurk is not an asset. He may be to POR but shouldn’t be for SA with that injury.

  8. #58
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    -The Aldridge For Nurk, straight up, wouldn't work. Nurk will make $14.1 million. Aldridge will make $27.7 million. Hood would need to be added to meet trade requirements.

    -The Ariza+Collins deal also wouldn't work, financially but just barely.

    -The Ariza+Hood and a 1st would just barely work financially.

    I would think Portland would to keep the outgoing salaries in the general range as Aldridge's massive salary to avoid any chance of paying the luxury tax. That's especially true with the report that the entire 20-21 season might be played without fans in the stadium ( that 40% of overall league revenue gone).

    Thats why Nurk and Ariza trade seems to be the best Nurkic trade, in theory. They get to keep their picks, Collins, add Aldridge and still stay under the luxury tax.

    If not Nurk then Collins would have to be included, otherwise they'll likely pay the tax. Ultimately, if Collins is the big holdup in in a potential Aldridge for Ariza, Collins, Hood and a '21 first then I could see Dame being the tiebreaker. That's a big enough of a deal where they'll likely at least consult with him, he'd likely approve.

    Even if they love Collins, its a big risk to turn down such a trade and risk alienating Lillard and CJ. Their in their late 20's and playing for a small market team, that is generally the time and situations were stars begin to demand trades.
    You're right. I was looking at their guaranteed total and overlooked the inclusive one.

    Aldridge will make $24 million, but yeah Hood would need to be added to Nurkic to make it work.

    Ariza and Collins works by including Hezonja ($1.98 million player option that I'd imagine he's likely to pick up).

    Ariza could be borderline finished anytime, but he's essential to them because the only viable replacement would be Harkless, a lesser 3-point shooter, that they got rid of because he was erratic and not thrilled with his role. Bey looks like a potential plug and play option, but he may not last until their pick (if Spurs don't trade up, he's probably a strong candidate) and it'd be risky on their part to rely on him.

    Lillard applying pressure is the Spurs' best potential leverage, but again, since when have they driven a hard bargain? In the end, Olshey will probably hold the line at one of the three assets they deem most expendable and the Spurs will probably capitulate so that they can "do right by" Aldridge.
    Last edited by TD 21; 06-14-2020 at 03:50 PM.

  9. #59
    Veteran cd021's Avatar
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    You're right. I was looking at their guaranteed total and overlooked the inclusive one.

    Aldridge will make $24 million, but yeah Hood would need to be added to Nurkic to make it work.

    Ariza and Collins works by including Hezonja ($1.98 million player option that I'd imagine he's likely to pick up).

    Ariza could be borderline finished anytime, but he's essential to them because the only viable replacement would be Harkless, a lesser 3-point shooter, that they got rid of because he was erratic and not thrilled with his role. Bey looks like a potential plug and play option, but he may not last until their pick (if Spurs don't trade up, he's probably a strong candidate) and it'd be risky on their part to rely on him.

    Lillard applying pressure is the Spurs' best potential leverage, but again, since when have they driven a hard bargain? In the end, Olshey will probably hold the line at one of the three assets they deem most expendable and the Spurs will probably capitulate so that they can "do right by" Aldridge.
    -I was wrong too, I said Aldridge was making $27.7 million next season but I was thinking about DeRozan's option. He'll make $24 million.

    -I think Collins is a fine prospect but if he's the sole prospect then I'm not interested and I don't think that PATFO would be either unless they add their '21 pick.

    -They may need Ariza but I still think they'll want to keep Nurk more. If Lillard were to have his input I think he'd rather him and CJ plus Aldridge and Nurkic.

    That makes them a contender. They'll have to find a plug and play 3 in that scenario. There are some options in the draft like Vassell and Okoro, but they are unlikely to slide to 14. There would be a hole there in my original trade scenario but considering they entered this season with a hole at 3, i'm sure that Portland would be willing to do it again- next season, but with a big talent upgrade.

    -Agreed. The Spurs don't tend to drive a hard bargain, that a concern in a trade with the Blazers. I think that they'd probably ask for Nurk, considering he's closer in value to Aldridge- when healthy.

    If and when Portland shoots that down, San Antonio would likely pivot towards a '21 first rounder. That wouldn't be a bad asset considering that the '21 draft is supposed to be much better than this draft.

  10. #60
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    -I was wrong too, I said Aldridge was making $27.7 million next season but I was thinking about DeRozan's option. He'll make $24 million.

    -I think Collins is a fine prospect but if he's the sole prospect then I'm not interested and I don't think that PATFO would be either unless they add their '21 pick.

    -They may need Ariza but I still think they'll want to keep Nurk more. If Lillard were to have his input I think he'd rather him and CJ plus Aldridge and Nurkic.

    That makes them a contender. They'll have to find a plug and play 3 in that scenario. There are some options in the draft like Vassell and Okoro, but they are unlikely to slide to 14. There would be a hole there in my original trade scenario but considering they entered this season with a hole at 3, i'm sure that Portland would be willing to do it again- next season, but with a big talent upgrade.

    -Agreed. The Spurs don't tend to drive a hard bargain, that a concern in a trade with the Blazers. I think that they'd probably ask for Nurk, considering he's closer in value to Aldridge- when healthy.

    If and when Portland shoots that down, San Antonio would likely pivot towards a '21 first rounder. That wouldn't be a bad asset considering that the '21 draft is supposed to be much better than this draft.
    - In theory, I don't think they'd be and I wouldn't be either. In reality, I'm not sure they can do better and if that's true, then it's either that/something of commensurate value or lose him for nothing the following off season.

    - Maybe, but Nurkic-Aldridge is untenable in today's NBA and even if he can regain previous form, for a team trying to contend that would lack superior (super)star power, fit/depth become even more paramount. That's why they should prioritize Collins/Ariza/picks over Nurkic/Hood.

    - As you said, they're unlikely to be available at 14. Even in the event one unexpectedly is, Vassell is a 2.5 and lacks the strength to defend big wings and Okoro can't shoot. They're also rookies, who might not be ready.

  11. #61
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    just skimmed the article but i don't see a trade between the two teams.

    i think spurs would want more than the blazers are willing to give. if i'm moving la and not getting a great return then i'd wanna attach demar... but then there'd be too many moving parts by then.

  12. #62
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    la, rudy gay, trey for gobert, ingles, and ed davis.

  13. #63
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    great deal but portland will probably wait and sign him as a FA
    Portland has the highest payroll in the league. They are not signing Aldridge without a trade unless he signs for the mid level exception.

  14. #64
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    - In theory, I don't think they'd be and I wouldn't be either. In reality, I'm not sure they can do better and if that's true, then it's either that/something of commensurate value or lose him for nothing the following off season.

    - Maybe, but Nurkic-Aldridge is untenable in today's NBA and even if he can regain previous form, for a team trying to contend that would lack superior (super)star power, fit/depth become even more paramount. That's why they should prioritize Collins/Ariza/picks over Nurkic/Hood.

    - As you said, they're unlikely to be available at 14. Even in the event one unexpectedly is, Vassell is a 2.5 and lacks the strength to defend big wings and Okoro can't shoot. They're also rookies, who might not be ready.

    -If Collins, Ariza and the '21st pick, then that's a decent enough of a package for the Spurs to consider. Portland would be able to keep Hood, giving them at least at the 3 for them to try and add too, in the draft and free agency. They should still be able to stay under the tax while adding LMA to a Lillard, CJ and Nurkic core.

    Spurs get an extra first in a better draft by moving on from Aldridge. They'd also likely be able to flip Ariza for a second or two and the Spurs would have a season to evaluate Collins before potentially having to pay him. That's about a good of a win-win scenario for Portland and San Antonio as I can realistically think of.


    -I could see trade negotiations going like:

    Spurs: We want Nurkic
    Portland: (If Yes) Nurkic and Hood for Aldridge.
    Spurs: (If No to Nurkic) We want a first rounder for Aldridge then.
    Portland: (If Yes) Ariza, Collins, and protected '21 first round pick for Aldridge.

    I don't think the Spurs are particularly good at playing hardball but I could see them not being in any rush not trade LMA, unless if Portland comes off of Nurk or a 1st. Failing to upgrade the team, after likely missing the playoffs, could provide Portland with enough pressure to reconsider later during the off-season.

  15. #65
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    PATFO always want too much in return so i wont be surprised if they ask for sth like: nurkic/ariza/anfernee and 1st 20'

  16. #66
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    -If Collins, Ariza and the '21st pick, then that's a decent enough of a package for the Spurs to consider. Portland would be able to keep Hood, giving them at least at the 3 for them to try and add too, in the draft and free agency. They should still be able to stay under the tax while adding LMA to a Lillard, CJ and Nurkic core.

    Spurs get an extra first in a better draft by moving on from Aldridge. They'd also likely be able to flip Ariza for a second or two and the Spurs would have a season to evaluate Collins before potentially having to pay him. That's about a good of a win-win scenario for Portland and San Antonio as I can realistically think of.


    -I could see trade negotiations going like:

    Spurs: We want Nurkic
    Portland: (If Yes) Nurkic and Hood for Aldridge.
    Spurs: (If No to Nurkic) We want a first rounder for Aldridge then.
    Portland: (If Yes) Ariza, Collins, and protected '21 first round pick for Aldridge.

    I don't think the Spurs are particularly good at playing hardball but I could see them not being in any rush not trade LMA, unless if Portland comes off of Nurk or a 1st. Failing to upgrade the team, after likely missing the playoffs, could provide Portland with enough pressure to reconsider later during the off-season.
    Hood is a T-rex armed 2.5 and will be coming off a torn Achilles. The reality is, there is no readily available Ariza replacement. The best bet is probably the corpse of Batum, who's on track for a buyout after next season's trade deadline. They'd probably have the inside track and the best chance to revive him, a la the Spurs with Diaw.

    I don't think the Spurs are in a rush to trade Aldridge either. Ideally, I think they'd actually probably like to have him finish his career here. But the reality is, his willingness to play out his contract is probably tied to what happens to DeRozan and either way, it's clear he doesn't intend to stay beyond that.

    The thing is, Collins essentially would be the 1st round pick. He's 22-23 with basically 2 years experience and likely a better prospect than what they'd find with a projected early-mid 20s 1st, even in a deep draft. Obviously, him being basically the lone asset would be a last resort type thing, but if push comes to shove it beats nothing.

  17. #67
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    Aldridge leaves the Spurs.
    Aldridge goes to Portland.

    Win-win

  18. #68
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    Whatever possibility that might have existed of them parting with Nurkic, is likely gone. He's somehow bounced right back and doesn't seem to have hit his ceiling yet either.

    That probably leaves a 1st or maybe Collins, plus Ariza, Hood and if necessary, salary filler.

    The Heat would probably do Olynyk and 23.

    The Nets, maybe Allen, Prince, Kurucs.

  19. #69
    Veteran cd021's Avatar
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    Whatever possibility that might have existed of them parting with Nurkic, is likely gone. He's somehow bounced right back and doesn't seem to have hit his ceiling yet either.

    That probably leaves a 1st or maybe Collins, plus Ariza, Hood and if necessary, salary filler.

    The Heat would probably do Olynyk and 23.

    The Nets, maybe Allen, Prince, Kurucs.
    -A '21 first and Ariza and Hood works but they'd have nothing on the wings as we've discussed. I still think that they'd do that and the Spurs would too.

    -I've thought about about that trade and I think that might be as likely of a destination for Aldridge, if the Spurs are open to trading him. Riley doesn't seem to care much for 1sts, they aren't necessarily dependent on them because they are so good at finding talent in the G-league.

    I think the timing could be tricky, but still possible. The Heat would still have to make the pick due to the Stepien rule but the Spurs and Heat could agree to the Aldridge for Olynyk and a 1st ahead of the draft so that might not be an issue.

    -I haven't seen that incarnation before, have to think more about that one.

  20. #70
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    -A '21 first and Ariza and Hood works but they'd have nothing on the wings as we've discussed. I still think that they'd do that and the Spurs would too.

    -I've thought about about that trade and I think that might be as likely of a destination for Aldridge, if the Spurs are open to trading him. Riley doesn't seem to care much for 1sts, they aren't necessarily dependent on them because they are so good at finding talent in the G-league.

    I think the timing could be tricky, but still possible. The Heat would still have to make the pick due to the Stepien rule but the Spurs and Heat could agree to the Aldridge for Olynyk and a 1st ahead of the draft so that might not be an issue.

    -I haven't seen that incarnation before, have to think more about that one.
    I suspect the Spurs only do that if it's a means to an end, where it either sets up a 3 team trade or another trade that allows them to acquire a potential core building block or solid young veteran.

    In and of itself, I don't think they're interested in a likely early 20s pick (supposedly deep draft or not) as the primary asset for Aldridge or DeRozan.

  21. #71
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    Moving Aldridge would depend on what you could get back. He's still a guy that can go 17-10 on a nightly basis and anchor the middle. Hard to replace that, despite the thinking by some that he's expendable.

  22. #72
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    I agree but I Hope after this season Spurs really open the phone lines and see what they can get for LMA, DeRozan, and Rudy. I think we could get some decent deals for Rudy and DeRozan potential interested teams: Toronto, Miami, New York, and the Nets.

  23. #73
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    The main reasoning behind an Aldridge trade is finally giving Poeltl the starter position for good. If we don't trade LA Poeltl will be likely gone and we can't afford that. He's one of our best players for the foreseeable future.

    Trading LA before next season starts is a must.

  24. #74
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    Trade LA if Poetl continues to play well is a no brainer

  25. #75
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    I suspect the Spurs only do that if it's a means to an end, where it either sets up a 3 team trade or another trade that allows them to acquire a potential core building block or solid young veteran.

    In and of itself, I don't think they're interested in a likely early 20s pick (supposedly deep draft or not) as the primary asset for Aldridge or DeRozan.
    Maybe. I think the Spurs expect to bring this team back next season, maybe minus Forbes and Beli.

    Still, if Portland or Miami inquire about Aldridge, and offer similar packages, then I still think its hard for them to say no. Aldridge had held up rather well for a 35 year old but getting a 1st round pick for him, especially with him being a free agent after next season, is better than what the Spurs could otherwise reasonable expect. The Spurs should take such an offer and move forward.

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