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Yes, Dirk outplayed KG in 2002. But one could argue that KG was better all-round player, peaked higher (2004) and had his prime wasted in Minnesota. Dirk was better scorer though. You could make cases for both guys.
Seeing a few KG over Dirk rankings and not sure how or why that is . KG never led his team to a le. 0 Finals MVP. I think he made it out of the first round once in Minnesota? And Dirk pretty much destroyed him head to head. 37-20 in their matchups. Swept KG in the 2002 playoffs.
Yes, Dirk outplayed KG in 2002. But one could argue that KG was better all-round player, peaked higher (2004
That's because his body wouldn't hold up playing in a larger role. The few times they tried it he fell apart. Dirk, OTOH, was uberman with rubber ankles and knees for 15 years till the wheels fell off. And I LOVED Manu...wanted Cuban to give him a blank check and get him on the Mavs.
kg was unquestionably superior as an all around playerYes, Dirk outplayed KG in 2002. But one could argue that KG was better all-round player, peaked higher (2004
dirk was unquestionably superior as a scorer and big game clutch player
if you did a checklist of who was better at different aspects of basketball, kg easily gets more checks. but dirks checks are so much more valuable, just the same way a pitcher like yu darvish could throw 8-10 pitches better than most in the league, but all of that could not compare to a guy like madison bumgarner whos elite control of the fastball/cutter made him absolutely unstoppable in the playoffs.
the league always has had plenty of very good all around players at any given point
but there are generally only a very few legit elite clutch scorers at any time in the league
theres a reason most teams build around elite scorers, as opposed to elite all-around players - they are rarer and more valuable
And that’s why I’m not a big fan of rankings, everyone has different criterias
It seems they got rid of it. Online voters were constantly putting Bird, Kareem, or Wilt as #1.
And Jordan often falling to the lower top ten.
They surely got money from factions that prey with the Jordan GOAT narrative.
Cuban was a dunce for getting rid of Nash and Nelly in favor of mundane Harris and Avery Johnson... totally bogged down their offense and it wouldn't recover until 2011.
I wasn't happy with his cheapness and idiocy after 2011 either. Dirk finally wins one and they reward him with butter knives like Chris Kaman instead of Chandler. He started treating the Mavs like a shark tank project after 2011...basement bargain shopping.
Top Fifty
1. Larry Bird
2. Tim Duncan
3. Lou Alcindor
4. Bill Russell
5. Len Bias
6. John Stockton
7. Wilt Chamberlain
8. Scottie Pippen
9. Pete Maravich
10. Moses Malone
11. Oscar Robertson
12. Julius Erving
13. Kevin McHale
14. Manu Ginobili
15. Hakeem Olajuwon
16. Shaquille O'Neal
17. Kawhi Leonard
18. Karl Malone
19. David Robinson
20. Michael Jordan
21. Isiah Thomas
22. James Worthy
23. Chris Webber
24. Paul Pierce
25. John Havlicek
26. Lebron James
27. Reggie Lewis
28. Bill Walton
29. Robert Parish
30. Dirk Nowitzki
31. Pau Gasol
32. Charles Barkley
33. Steve Nash
34. Alex English
35. Dominique Wilkins
36. Grant Hill
37. Peja Stojakovic
38. Kevin Durant
39. Ray Allen
40. Clyde Drexler
41. Ralph Sampson
42. Earvin Johnson
43. Vlade Divac
44. Kobe Bryant
45. Reggie Miller
46. Bill Laimbeer
47. Toni Kukoc
48. Bruce Bowen
49. Roy Tarpley
50. Rajon Rondo
Top Fifty
1. Larry Bird
2. Tim Duncan
3. Lou Alcindor
4. Bill Russell
5. Len Bias
6. John Stockton
7. Wilt Chamberlain
8. Scottie Pippen
9. Pete Maravich
10. Moses Malone
11. Oscar Robertson
12. Julius Erving
13. Kevin McHale
14. Manu Ginobili
15. Hakeem Olajuwon
16. Kawhi Leonard
17. Karl Malone
18. David Robinson
19. Chris Webber
20. James Worthy
21. Shaquille O'Neal
22. Drazen Petrovic
23. Isiah Thomas
24. Kevin Garnett
25. Michael Jordan
26. Paul Pierce
27. John Havlicek
28. Lebron James
29. Reggie Lewis
30. Bill Walton
31. Robert Parish
32. Dirk Nowitzki
33. Pau Gasol
34. Charles Barkley
35. Steve Nash
36. Dominique Wilkins
47. Ralph Sampson
38. Peja Stojakovic
39. Grant Hill
40. Ray Allen
41. Clyde Drexler
42. Earvin Johnson
43. Vlade Divac
44. Kevin Durant
45. Alex English
46. Tracy McGrady
47. Kobe Bryant
48. Toni Kukoc
49. Bruce Bowen
50. Roy Tarpley
50. Rajon Rondo
50. Patrick Ewing
50. Tony Parker
50. Rick Barry
50. Jason Kidd
50. Dennis Johnson
50. Bill Laimbeer
50. Adrian Dantley
50. Bernard King
50. Chris Mullin
50. Shawn Marion
50. Jerry West
A couple things.
Of course its debatable after Jordan and probably Jabbar. They are not flawless or no brainers but when you factor rings, impact, scoring records, MVps etc. They both hit the most marks. Plus both won in college, when that mattered.
Intangibles boost Bird, Magic and Tim.
Longevity Kareem, Karl Tim Kobe LeBron Dirk get a boost.
Peak dominance Hakeem Shaq. Moses Mj Wilt get a boost etc.
Bottom line is after mj and Kareem its soo debatable and the top 20 is pretty damn great. I dont like mailman I think he is a choker but he used to bust the Lakers ass ...so he is bottom of top 20 for me .. but firmly in.
Might be the shiitiest list ever. But i respect your right to be wrong, lol
Last edited by Killakobe81; 06-19-2020 at 09:50 PM.
What's wrong with it?
IMO dirk should be higher on the list, his at least above kg, kobe, drob, drj, kd, curry...
I love Dirk ...but no. He aint over Kobe Steph or KD he does have a case over KG mailman and Drob if you dont care about defense.
And to be fair Dirk is over KD/Steph currently ...but im projecting ...but who knows if KD recovers to close to what he was?!
Last edited by Killakobe81; 06-19-2020 at 11:08 PM.
funni how ppl like to bring up KG is all round player and better peak then dirk, nothing more then a stat padder...dirk doesnt do all those stats, he does the scoring to get the win...
hence how can u blame management when kg was to busy taking those max deals that left no budget to fill a team around him??? excuses excuses is all i hear
Dirk got probably as high as he should've for a guy who was pretty much a defensive liability and not a great rebounder.
Definitely a rock on offense and a guy who could get his own quality shots in crunch time. He is above Kobe and KD if you hadn't noticed.
Curry didn't make the list because he's a full-on beneficiary of the soft rules. He and Thompson are on the fringe though.
Dr. J gets ranked lower because people conveniently forget his ABA days. If we're just going by the older Dr. J most are more familiar with he'd be lower.
All soft as Charmin, tbh.
I initially was considering leaving KG off the list b/c he really wasn't as strong in the low post as one would like for a guy with that kind of length and shooting touch. But then I recalled how simply amazing he was as the defensive anchor of that 08 C's team and how he added distribution options on offense in addition to having a great mid range game. He was the real 08 MVP, but they had to give Kobe his lifetime achievement award. Had he not injured his knee in 09, I think the C's would've three-peated. And I tried not to punish players for injuries. They happen. I think "longevity" is over-rated. Lebron or Jordan could've blown out his knee in year two. Injuries are fickle. Also, taking it back to KG, it's not his fault he had to play much of his career in Minneberia with not much talent around him. Dude rivaled The Great Tim Duncan in the early to mid 2000's for a reason.
Kobe was so lucky to three-peat with Shaq, and then that happened. 5 Rangs doe
Brilliant post.
But KG is not your typical all-around player, he was sensational all-around player and Dirk was scoring just a couple more points per game. Still, Dirk was considerably better scorer, was defended much tighter, drew doubles. He was warping defenses something Kevin couldn't do as well.
But KG was extremely versatile, he could defend point guards and centers, was beter passer and etc. He had so many checks at so many aspects of basketball. Just look at this:
That's unbelivable level of play. Sometimes in the clutch, you have to do things other than scoring.
I think Dirk's ring in 2011 made him greater than KG in the eyes of vast majority of people. He played for much better managed franchise too. It's a shame that Sam Cassell was injured in WCF in 2004. Minnesota could win it all that year. Coulda, woulda, shoulda...
Still, I'm okay that Dirk ranked higher. I just think that it's not that one-sided and arguments can be made for both guys.
If you want to call rigging series over the Blazers in 01 and Kings in 00 and 02 luck, then yea I agree. He was lucky.
Kobe was so lucky to three-peat with Shaq, and then that happened. 5 Rangs doe
But expanding on this, my list reflects the league cheating and more legitimately how I think careers would've went on an even playing field.
MJ and Kobe are not players who were ever meant to win more than 1-3 les. They're not the dominant forces they're made out to be.
Kings were never the same after C Webb hurt his knee in 03. Still, I was hoping they'd dig it out in 04. They had the experience and enough talent.
Adelman not running a play to get a three for the best three shooter in the world at the end? That's why the dude doesn't have a ring as a coach.
If you want to call rigging series over the Blazers in 01 and Kings in 00 and 02 luck, then yea I agree. He was lucky.
Couldn't agree more. And I think that two-way bigs are the most valuable commodity not only in basketball but in all of North American sports in general
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