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  1. #201
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    Lets examine what you said:



    At of all that, didn't shoot the three very well is the only one you can legitmately argue in comparison to other superstars. And we are also talking about the same guy who broke a Finals record for 3 pointers vs Portland. So he could shoot the 3, but it really wasn't a thing then, so he didn't. The other stuff you mentioned are either subjective and/or the kind of stuff that you could say about any other superstar.
    Blazers gave those threes open to Jordan because whenever they played defense they were racking up fouls. On most nights, it was a solid strategy. Spurs did the same thing with Lebron and the Heat in 2013. MJ had one night where they were going in is all. Even he shrugged like this doesn't normally happen.

    And MJ did try to get his game up to win 3-point contests and miserably failed on multiple attempts. I think he made 4 one year and 5 the next or something like that.

    Yea, I think MJ was a pretty good defender; but that doesn't make him over-rated when some people were saying he was the best, and he clearly wasn't.

    Anyone who watched the Bulls in the 90's saw all the fake fouls. Were you even watching back then, or is that before your time? You really have no excuse to not know this.

  2. #202
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    The officiating in game 1 of the 1992 Finals was a travesty, Drexler wasn’t allowed to play defense on Jordan

    A lot of BS phantom fouls, that’s why Jordan went off

  3. #203
    Believe. Dirks_Finale's Avatar
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    I was very much alive and well in the 90s.

    Are you telling me Lebron and KD, today's stars , don't get all kinds of BS freebies, because you lose credibility if you are. Especially someone like Kobe who screamed HEEYY everytime someone played him close and got countless FT's as a result.

    And then you have the spurs who have received preferential treatment from the refs for 20 years because they are scared of Popovich

    And I never felt like MJ was the best defender. Pippen was better, imo. But if he wanted to lock you down, consider yourself shut down for that night.

    Blazers gave those threes open to Jordan because whenever they played defense they were racking up fouls. On most nights, it was a solid strategy. Spurs did the same thing with Lebron and the Heat in 2013. MJ had one night where they were going in is all. Even he shrugged like this doesn't normally happen.

    And MJ did try to get his game up to win 3-point contests and miserably failed on multiple attempts. I think he made 4 one year and 5 the next or something like that.

    Yea, I think MJ was a pretty good defender; but that doesn't make him over-rated when some people were saying he was the best, and he clearly wasn't.

    Anyone who watched the Bulls in the 90's saw all the fake fouls. Were you even watching back then, or is that before your time? You really have no excuse to not know this.

  4. #204
    Believe. Dirks_Finale's Avatar
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    The officiating in game 1 of the 1992 Finals was a travesty, Drexler wasn’t allowed to play defense on Jordan

    A lot of BS phantom fouls, that’s why Jordan went off
    Blazers were on the road.

    No different than the sort of treatment the spurs have received from the refs for the past 2 decades in their own building. You have to overcome it. Clyde was a choker.

  5. #205
    Believe. i'm_still_beta's Avatar
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    https://youtu.be/mmlfiMDUTQ4?t=364

    It's easier to be the G.O.A.T when you have refs in your pocket (cheap fts increase ppg and fg%).

    Also, never forget about 1993, when Rockets were robbed in game 7 vs Seattle. Stern wanted Barkley vs Jordan for ratings. He got it.

    Chuck and Jordan were saved from Hakeem, the real MVP and best player of 1993.

  6. #206
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    Blazers were on the road.

    No different than the sort of treatment the spurs have received from the refs for the past 2 decades in their own building. You have to overcome it. Clyde was a choker.
    no it’s worse, Jordan was allowed to do whatever he wanted to do , that wasn’t home cooking, that blatant investment protection at play, Jordan got the sand treatment on the road

    Clude wasnt a choker, name one teammate on that Portland tram who was on the level of Pippen

  7. #207
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    https://youtu.be/mmlfiMDUTQ4?t=364

    It's easier to be the G.O.A.T when you have refs in your pocket (cheap fts increase ppg and fg%).

    Also, never forget about 1993, when Rockets were robbed in game 7 vs Seattle. Stern wanted Barkley vs Jordan for ratings. He got it.

    Chuck and Jordan were saved from Hakeem, the real MVP and best player of 1993.
    Exactly
    Stern knew Rockets would be a problem for Phoenix (and Chicago)

    Also, during the WCF, NBC aired a promo of Jordan vs Barkley

  8. #208
    Believe. Dirks_Finale's Avatar
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    That roster was deep, though.

    Jordan rings with that same roster. No doubt about it.


    no it’s worse, Jordan was allowed to do whatever he wanted to do , that wasn’t home cooking, that blatant investment protection at play, Jordan got the sand treatment on the road

    Clude wasnt a choker, name one teammate on that Portland tram who was on the level of Pippen

  9. #209
    Believe. i'm_still_beta's Avatar
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    If Houston drafted Drexler ...

    Sabonis, Len Bias. Mike dodged so many bullets .

    Chicago also lucked with Scottie. IS MJ luckiest athlete of all time?

  10. #210
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    The officiating in game 1 of the 1992 Finals was a travesty, Drexler wasn’t allowed to play defense on Jordan

    A lot of BS phantom fouls, that’s why Jordan went off
    I'm kind of remembering that without even having re-watched the game, all these years later.

  11. #211
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    I was very much alive and well in the 90s.

    Are you telling me Lebron and KD, today's stars , don't get all kinds of BS freebies, because you lose credibility if you are. Especially someone like Kobe who screamed HEEYY everytime someone played him close and got countless FT's as a result.

    And then you have the spurs who have received preferential treatment from the refs for 20 years because they are scared of Popovich

    And I never felt like MJ was the best defender. Pippen was better, imo. But if he wanted to lock you down, consider yourself shut down for that night.
    Did you see how low I ranked Kobe and KD on the list? Clearly, I'm factoring in the Jordan model to those who proceeded him.

    And that you think the Spurs got preferential treatment. You don't understand life whatsoever, let alone the NBA if you believe that.

  12. #212
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    If Houston drafted Drexler ...

    Sabonis, Len Bias. Mike dodged so many bullets .

    Chicago also lucked with Scottie. IS MJ luckiest athlete of all time?
    '

    Easily. And I would bet it was league scouts and not Chicago scouts that told them they needed to draft Kukoc.

  13. #213
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    92-93 season. Bulls vs Rockets. Damn, Hakeem



    Stacey King, Bill Cartwright and Scott Williams vs Hakeem . It would be fun to watch.

    And even on off-shooting night (see second game that season), Hakeem still was the best player on the court thanks to all-time defense and rebounding.

  14. #214
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    https://youtu.be/mmlfiMDUTQ4?t=364

    It's easier to be the G.O.A.T when you have refs in your pocket (cheap fts increase ppg and fg%).

    Also, never forget about 1993, when Rockets were robbed in game 7 vs Seattle. Stern wanted Barkley vs Jordan for ratings. He got it.

    Chuck and Jordan were saved from Hakeem, the real MVP and best player of 1993.
    Exactly
    Stern knew Rockets would be a problem for Phoenix (and Chicago)

    Also, during the WCF, NBC aired a promo of Jordan vs Barkley
    NBA does it's homework / scouting and works with the refs to control outcomes.

    I remember going to Kings @ Lakers back when C-Webb, Divac, Stoy, Bibby, Christie had come online.
    It was a 30-point lead and a total beatdown. It was clear who the better team was.
    I noticed that in subsequent match-ups the game was called way different. All kinds of ticky tack calls, stoppages, etc. to even it out.
    To this day, I don't think Kobe/Shaq were on their level. I think people are so dumb when I hear all this sh** about imagine how many championships that Kobe and Shaq could've won.
    No, they were being manufactured and they hit the limit cos Shaq was too fat and Kobe was too many he wasn't averaging 30 plus and getting his Jordan on in any event. They were done for.

  15. #215
    Believe. i'm_still_beta's Avatar
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    NBA does it's homework / scouting and works with the refs to control outcomes.

    I remember going to Kings @ Lakers back when C-Webb, Divac, Stoy, Bibby, Christie had come online.
    It was a 30-point lead and a total beatdown. It was clear who the better team was.
    I noticed that in subsequent match-ups the game was called way different. All kinds of ticky tack calls, stoppages, etc. to even it out.
    To this day, I don't think Kobe/Shaq were on their level. I think people are so dumb when I hear all this sh** about imagine how many championships that Kobe and Shaq could've won.
    No, they were being manufactured and they hit the limit cos Shaq was too fat and Kobe was too many he wasn't averaging 30 plus and getting his Jordan on in any event. They were done for.
    Truth nukes

    Mike Bibby's face punching Kobe's elbow is 'all-time classic' example of shameless rigging.

  16. #216
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    The Spurs have gotten preferential treatment for 2 decades. All the way up to the WCF. Then it ceases as the NBA knows they are a ratings killer.

    Pop intimidates the refs the same way he intimidates sideline reporters.

    Did you see how low I ranked Kobe and KD on the list? Clearly, I'm factoring in the Jordan model to those who proceeded him.

    And that you think the Spurs got preferential treatment. You don't understand life whatsoever, let alone the NBA if you believe that.

  17. #217
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    Okay. I'll have to figure out where this guy may rank.


  18. #218
    Believe. i'm_still_beta's Avatar
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    The Spurs have gotten preferential treatment for 2 decades. All the way up to the WCF. Then it ceases as the NBA knows they are a ratings killer.

    Pop intimidates the refs the same way he intimidates sideline reporters.
    BTW, how you rank Dirk all-time?

  19. #219
    Believe. Dirks_Finale's Avatar
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    Preview of the Chicago vs Houston Finals that never happened.

    Series over






    92-93 season. Bulls vs Rockets. Damn, Hakeem



    Stacey King, Bill Cartwright and Scott Williams vs Hakeem . It would be fun to watch.

    And even on off-shooting night (see second game that season), Hakeem still was the best player on the court thanks to all-time defense and rebounding.

  20. #220
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    I think he is around 18 or 19.

    BTW, how you rank Dirk all-time?

  21. #221
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    Would be classified as a "plumber" by lefty

    Okay. I'll have to figure out where this guy may rank.


  22. #222
    Believe. i'm_still_beta's Avatar
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    Preview of the Chicago vs Houston Finals that never happened.

    Series over

    That's their only hope . Reminds me Zaza vs Kawhi in 2017 WCF

  23. #223
    6X ST MVP
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    The Spurs have gotten preferential treatment for 2 decades. All the way up to the WCF. Then it ceases as the NBA knows they are a ratings killer.

    Pop intimidates the refs the same way he intimidates sideline reporters.
    That's a popular narrative that was put out there to confuse the actual cheating that does occur.

    Pop is not that hard; and whatever pressure he exerts is basically to make them cheat less.

  24. #224
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    Would be classified as a "plumber" by lefty
    Defensively, maybe.

  25. #225
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    Jordan wished he was Bird


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