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  1. #1
    Veteran KobesAchilles's Avatar
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    We all know who the consensus top 10 are (no order): Kobe, Mike, Magic, Larry, Wilt, Shaq, Jim, Jabbar, Lebron, and Bill. Maybe some trolls have Kobe out of the top 10 and switch him with someone else (that's fine just tell us who you are replacing Kobe with). But who are the next 10 players? Everyone has their own list and their own criteria.

    11. Moses Malone. 3X MVP. 13 time All-Star. Led Multiple teams to the Finals and won one in 83 along with a Finals MVP where he abuse Kareem. 31 points and 15 rebounds per game in his prime. He was arguably the greatest offensive rebounder of all time and he made your team a contender

    12. Hakeem: MVP, All time Blocks leader. 2 time DPOY. Led league in rebounds. 2 time champion and Finals MVP. 12X Allstar and 12x All-NBA. He was arguably the most skilled big man of all time. It took the Rockets nearly 20 years to even sniff any post season success once he left.

    13. Dr. J: He joined the NBA late but he was by far the best player of the 70s after Kareem. He had a flawless game, he scored easy, had every move in the book, he could create and defend. Dr. J was a mismatch against anyone he faced. He is a 3x ABA MVP and a NBA MVP. He won 2 ABA les and 1 NBA le. He was an 5x ABA All Star and 11x NBA All Star. Had he played in the NBA from the get go he would've had far more NBA success. The dude was a straight baller and maybe the most underrated of all time

    14. Charles Barkley. I know he doesn't have a ring, but Charles was a beast. He's an 11x All Star. MVP, led the Suns to their first finals since the triple OT loss to Boston. 11x All NBA. He led the league in rebounding. Charles was a match up nightmare. He was too fast and athletic for big men and too strong and imposing for guards. He has 11 straight years of 20+ points per game and 10+ rebounds per game. To put that in perspective, here's a list of all PFs to pull that off: Charles Barkley.

    15: Oscar Robertson. The original Mr. Triple Double. He did everything for his teams. He was a one man show for most of his career. He was never surrounded by help while he was in his prime. He was too strong for guards to defend him, to quick for bigs to defend him. He was a NBA champion. MVP. 12x All Star. 11x All NBA. He led the NBA in assists 6 times. He didn't have the team success as his numbers indicate he should have but that's more on management than him.

    16. Jerry West. The logo himself. The white boy could play. He made it to the Finals like 9xs. He won an NBA championship. Finals MVP. He's a 14x All Star. 12x All NBA. He could defend with the best of them. He was one of the greatest shooters to ever play and was nicknamed Mr. Clutch (even though he lost so many Finals ) He averaged 30, 7, and 6 in his prime.

    17. Steph Curry. I know the jokes. I know he is seen as overrated. But he led the Warriors to a le with Draymond Green as his 3rd best player. The dude revolutionized the game except he's the only one who can win that way. His defense sucks, but I don't care about Point Guard defense. The best Point Guard defender of all-time isn't even in the Top 50 of all time great defenders. Steph shoots amazing, he moves off the ball. He never complains about touches and is a willing passer. He has made over 400 3s in a season multiple times. He is a 2x MVP. 3x Champion. He made it to 5 straight Finals. He's a 6x All star and 6x All NBA. He's led the league in steals and is part of the 50-40-90 club. I expect the Warriors to be players in the future. When it's all said and done he will lead the NBA in most 3s ever made.

    18. Dirk Oneringsky. He's a 14x All Star. MVP. Finals MVP. 12x All NBA. I was caught between him and Karl Malone. They are totally two different types of players but I feel like Dirk was a slightly better player. He's part of the 50-40-90 club. He's the best shooting 7 footer of all time. He led the Mavs to their best success of all time. Twice they went to the Finals and it took the refs to make him lose the 1st ring. He lost to the 8th seed and became the first team ever to do that in a 7 game series, but Malone also lost in the 1st round something like 9 times so that wasn't enough for me to put Dirk behind him. Dirk is one of 4 NBA players to win a ring as a lead dog without another All Star. Rick Barry, Hakeem, and Timmy are the other 3. He beat the Heat who were beyond the favorites that year. He had the game icer in Miami where he took Bosh to school while sick. He knocked out Kobe, Durant, and Lebron to win that ring. Dirks story is one of greatness

    19. Karl Malone. Utah was horrible before Malone. They were known as a sucky franchise going nowhere. Malone was drafted and he put in the work. Sure he is a child rapist. Sure he banged Vanessa Bryant. Sure he gave no help to his son of the 12 year old he impregnated, but he was so good at basketball that we forget all that. He was a 14x All Star. 14x All NBA. He is a 2x MVP. He led the Jazz tot he Finals twice. He is second all time in scoring. He was 31 and 11 in his prime. He has 17 straight years of scoring 20+ points per game. He lost to Jordan twice and choked in 97-98 but the Mailman did deliver the Jazz tot heir best success in franchise history.

    20. Kevin Durant. I know. How is Durant below Curry? How is he behind these other all time greats? He is a 2x Champion. He has 2 Finals MVP. He led the league in scoring 4 times. He is a 10x All Star and 9x All NBA. But Durant lost a lot of points with me by running away from his responsibilities. I get it. He wanted a ring. He didn't want to be made fun of anymore for being ringless. But he led the Thunder to the Finals. He was up 3-1 against the Warriors before he blew it. Kevin Durant was on his way to being an all time great, he didn't need to join the Warriors. Durant IS great. I count his les. But I'm not a les or bust person. I'm not a Finals MVP or bust person either. Weird to say it but there's some grace in being a Malone or a Ewing. They gave it their all night in and night out and they didn't doubt themselves. Barkley went on live television and said "God wanted him to win a championship." Durant never had that kind of swagger or that kind of leadership. You never felt like you were bulletproof because you had Durant. The Warriors needed Durant during last year. No doubt. But you do wonder how they would've fared if they kept their "Big 3" and got better role players around them. I think they would've done the same. The best thing you can say about Durant is that he is a cheat code that broke the NBA. At the same time I feel like it's the worst thing you can say about him.

  2. #2
    Believe. i'm_still_beta's Avatar
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    We all know who the consensus top 10 are (no order): Kobe, Mike, Magic, Larry, Wilt, Shaq, Jim, Jabbar, Lebron, and Bill. Maybe some trolls have Kobe out of the top 10 and switch him with someone else (that's fine just tell us who you are replacing Kobe with). But who are the next 10 players? Everyone has their own list and their own criteria.

    11. Moses Malone. 3X MVP. 13 time All-Star. Led Multiple teams to the Finals and won one in 83 along with a Finals MVP where he abuse Kareem. 31 points and 15 rebounds per game in his prime. He was arguably the greatest offensive rebounder of all time and he made your team a contender

    12. Hakeem: MVP, All time Blocks leader. 2 time DPOY. Led league in rebounds. 2 time champion and Finals MVP. 12X Allstar and 12x All-NBA. He was arguably the most skilled big man of all time. It took the Rockets nearly 20 years to even sniff any post season success once he left.

    13. Dr. J: He joined the NBA late but he was by far the best player of the 70s after Kareem. He had a flawless game, he scored easy, had every move in the book, he could create and defend. Dr. J was a mismatch against anyone he faced. He is a 3x ABA MVP and a NBA MVP. He won 2 ABA les and 1 NBA le. He was an 5x ABA All Star and 11x NBA All Star. Had he played in the NBA from the get go he would've had far more NBA success. The dude was a straight baller and maybe the most underrated of all time

    14. Charles Barkley. I know he doesn't have a ring, but Charles was a beast. He's an 11x All Star. MVP, led the Suns to their first finals since the triple OT loss to Boston. 11x All NBA. He led the league in rebounding. Charles was a match up nightmare. He was too fast and athletic for big men and too strong and imposing for guards. He has 11 straight years of 20+ points per game and 10+ rebounds per game. To put that in perspective, here's a list of all PFs to pull that off: Charles Barkley.

    15: Oscar Robertson. The original Mr. Triple Double. He did everything for his teams. He was a one man show for most of his career. He was never surrounded by help while he was in his prime. He was too strong for guards to defend him, to quick for bigs to defend him. He was a NBA champion. MVP. 12x All Star. 11x All NBA. He led the NBA in assists 6 times. He didn't have the team success as his numbers indicate he should have but that's more on management than him.

    16. Jerry West. The logo himself. The white boy could play. He made it to the Finals like 9xs. He won an NBA championship. Finals MVP. He's a 14x All Star. 12x All NBA. He could defend with the best of them. He was one of the greatest shooters to ever play and was nicknamed Mr. Clutch (even though he lost so many Finals ) He averaged 30, 7, and 6 in his prime.

    17. Steph Curry. I know the jokes. I know he is seen as overrated. But he led the Warriors to a le with Draymond Green as his 3rd best player. The dude revolutionized the game except he's the only one who can win that way. His defense sucks, but I don't care about Point Guard defense. The best Point Guard defender of all-time isn't even in the Top 50 of all time great defenders. Steph shoots amazing, he moves off the ball. He never complains about touches and is a willing passer. He has made over 400 3s in a season multiple times. He is a 2x MVP. 3x Champion. He made it to 5 straight Finals. He's a 6x All star and 6x All NBA. He's led the league in steals and is part of the 50-40-90 club. I expect the Warriors to be players in the future. When it's all said and done he will lead the NBA in most 3s ever made.

    18. Dirk Oneringsky. He's a 14x All Star. MVP. Finals MVP. 12x All NBA. I was caught between him and Karl Malone. They are totally two different types of players but I feel like Dirk was a slightly better player. He's part of the 50-40-90 club. He's the best shooting 7 footer of all time. He led the Mavs to their best success of all time. Twice they went to the Finals and it took the refs to make him lose the 1st ring. He lost to the 8th seed and became the first team ever to do that in a 7 game series, but Malone also lost in the 1st round something like 9 times so that wasn't enough for me to put Dirk behind him. Dirk is one of 4 NBA players to win a ring as a lead dog without another All Star. Rick Barry, Hakeem, and Timmy are the other 3. He beat the Heat who were beyond the favorites that year. He had the game icer in Miami where he took Bosh to school while sick. He knocked out Kobe, Durant, and Lebron to win that ring. Dirks story is one of greatness

    19. Karl Malone. Utah was horrible before Malone. They were known as a sucky franchise going nowhere. Malone was drafted and he put in the work. Sure he is a child rapist. Sure he banged Vanessa Bryant. Sure he gave no help to his son of the 12 year old he impregnated, but he was so good at basketball that we forget all that. He was a 14x All Star. 14x All NBA. He is a 2x MVP. He led the Jazz tot he Finals twice. He is second all time in scoring. He was 31 and 11 in his prime. He has 17 straight years of scoring 20+ points per game. He lost to Jordan twice and choked in 97-98 but the Mailman did deliver the Jazz tot heir best success in franchise history.

    20. Kevin Durant. I know. How is Durant below Curry? How is he behind these other all time greats? He is a 2x Champion. He has 2 Finals MVP. He led the league in scoring 4 times. He is a 10x All Star and 9x All NBA. But Durant lost a lot of points with me by running away from his responsibilities. I get it. He wanted a ring. He didn't want to be made fun of anymore for being ringless. But he led the Thunder to the Finals. He was up 3-1 against the Warriors before he blew it. Kevin Durant was on his way to being an all time great, he didn't need to join the Warriors. Durant IS great. I count his les. But I'm not a les or bust person. I'm not a Finals MVP or bust person either. Weird to say it but there's some grace in being a Malone or a Ewing. They gave it their all night in and night out and they didn't doubt themselves. Barkley went on live television and said "God wanted him to win a championship." Durant never had that kind of swagger or that kind of leadership. You never felt like you were bulletproof because you had Durant. The Warriors needed Durant during last year. No doubt. But you do wonder how they would've fared if they kept their "Big 3" and got better role players around them. I think they would've done the same. The best thing you can say about Durant is that he is a cheat code that broke the NBA. At the same time I feel like it's the worst thing you can say about him.
    Nice try

  3. #3
    Believe. Dirks_Finale's Avatar
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    Barkley is underrated imo. Wouldn't put him above Dirk , though...even if i hated Dallas

  4. #4
    6X ST MVP
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    Lebron might not be top ten in a non WWE league. Certainly not Kobe.

  5. #5
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    Based on career accomplishments, mixed with peak individual seasons*

    Top 10: Jordan, Lebron, Duncan, Magic, Bird, Wilt, Russell, Kareem, Shaq, Robertson

    11- Hakeem
    12- Moses Malone
    13- Durant
    14- Curry
    15- Kobe
    16- Robinson
    17- Garnett
    18- Dirk
    19- Karl Malone
    20- Barkley

    Kawhi is one regular season MVP or another ring away from leapfrogging all the way to top 10.

  6. #6
    Veteran
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    Based on career accomplishments, mixed with peak individual seasons*

    Top 10: Jordan, Lebron, Duncan, Magic, Bird, Wilt, Russell, Kareem, Shaq, Robertson

    11- Hakeem
    12- Moses Malone
    13- Durant
    14- Curry
    15- Kobe
    16- Robinson
    17- Garnett
    18- Dirk
    19- Karl Malone
    20- Barkley

    Kawhi is one regular season MVP or another ring away from leapfrogging all the way to top 10.
    What kind of logic is this? It's not just you, I see it all over the place. This prisoner of the moment, no context/nuance, strictly results oriented nonsense.

    Look how he "won" last season. By intentionally destroying his value and unwittingly setting up an iteration of a team that would have otherwise never existed (most complete in the league), sitting out 95 games over 2 seasons and having the best team in the league suc b to extreme fatigue/injuries.

    Then he blackmails the Clippers into trading for a borderline top 10 player, once again ends up on the most complete team in the league and now all of a sudden he's above reproach?

    What ever happened to how you win and longevity? Say what you want about Malone, for example, but the sheer body of work is impressive. S bag doesn't have that and more than likely never will because of his "load management".

  7. #7
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    What kind of logic is this? It's not just you, I see it all over the place. This prisoner of the moment, no context/nuance, strictly results oriented nonsense.

    Look how he "won" last season. By intentionally destroying his value and unwittingly setting up an iteration of a team that would have otherwise never existed (most complete in the league), sitting out 95 games over 2 seasons and having the best team in the league suc b to extreme fatigue/injuries.

    Then he blackmails the Clippers into trading for a borderline top 10 player, once again ends up on the most complete team in the league and now all of a sudden he's above reproach?

    What ever happened to how you win and longevity? Say what you want about Malone, for example, but the sheer body of work is impressive. S bag doesn't have that and more than likely never will because of his "load management".
    My logic is that Kawhi is already a better player than most of the guys I ranked above him, exactly because of that you say about longevity is that I still have him outside the top 20.

  8. #8
    Because I choose to. Neo.'s Avatar
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    Based on career accomplishments, mixed with peak individual seasons*

    Top 10: Jordan, Lebron, Duncan, Magic, Bird, Wilt, Russell, Kareem, Shaq, Robertson

    11- Hakeem
    12- Moses Malone
    13- Durant
    14- Curry
    15- Kobe
    16- Robinson
    17- Garnett
    18- Dirk
    19- Karl Malone
    20- Barkley

    Kawhi is one regular season MVP or another ring away from leapfrogging all the way to top 10.
    wow finally backed off your re ed manu > dirk take?

    or is there still some alternate universe you alone live in where he's still superior

  9. #9
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    My logic is that Kawhi is already a better player than most of the guys I ranked above him, exactly because of that you say about longevity is that I still have him outside the top 20.
    Based on what? He's put together roughly 4 years of superstar caliber play, won nothing legitimately in that span (in fact, his teams often fell short of expectations in the playoffs) and only won with pristine cir stances that were partially of his creation.

    If the Warriors were healthy last season, he's not even in the conversation with these players, but now somehow he's on the verge of passing a bunch because he's caught an obscene amount of breaks?

    Contrived = tainted.

  10. #10
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    wow finally backed off your re ed manu > dirk take?

    or is there still some alternate universe you alone live in where he's still superior
    Me saying Manu > Dirk never happened son. It was a myth created by butthurt Mavfans after I schooled their asses on several arguments.

  11. #11
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    Based on what? He's put together roughly 4 years of superstar caliber play, won nothing legitimately in that span (in fact, his teams often fell short of expectations in the playoffs) and only won with pristine cir stances that were partially of his creation.

    If the Warriors were healthy last season, he's not even in the conversation with these players, but now somehow he's on the verge of passing a bunch because he's caught an obscene amount of breaks?

    Contrived = tainted.
    Based on watching him play. A 50-40-90 player that also happens to be an all-time great defender. He's just a beast son. I will always despise him but I'm not going to let my hate cloud my judgement.

  12. #12
    Because I choose to. Neo.'s Avatar
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    Me saying Manu > Dirk never happened son. It was a myth created by butthurt Mavfans after I schooled their asses on several arguments.
    so you don't think manu > dirk? and never did?

  13. #13
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    so you don't think manu > dirk? and never did?
    The whole thing started before Dirk won his ring and I argued that Manu's career > Dirks' (including international play). It was never about who the better player was.

    FWIW, I still think Manu's career > Dirks'. Although after 2011, Dirk fans can make a case at least.

    And in terms of who is better, I do think Dirk is better, but, imho, they are roughly in the same tier: just a level below the true elite franchise players. I know this is where most will disagree with me because they never saw Manu as a franchise player in the NBA for an extended period of time, but I have no doubt in my mind he will have done pretty damn good at that role.

  14. #14
    what uganda do about it? Joseph Kony's Avatar
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    swap Hakeem and Kobe imo

    11. Oscar
    12. Kobe
    13. Curry
    14. Dr. J
    15. Moses
    16. Garnett
    17. D. Robinson
    18. Nowitzki
    19. Barkley
    20. Durant

  15. #15
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    Based on watching him play. A 50-40-90 player that also happens to be an all-time great defender. He's just a beast son. I will always despise him but I'm not going to let my hate cloud my judgement.
    Except he's never went 50-40-90 and his play making (literally the co-most important thing for players in his role), intangibles and durability are pathetic.

    Alert me when he does something for more than 5 minutes and it occurs in non pristine cir stances partially of his own creation.

    He's an Affluenza suffering wannabe, who's all of a sudden become bizarrely worshipped by media, Stockholm syndrome Raptors fans and cuckold Spurs fans alike.

  16. #16
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    Except he's never went 50-40-90 and his play making (literally the co-most important thing for players in his role), intangibles and durability are pathetic.

    Alert me when he does something for more than 5 minutes and it occurs in non pristine cir stances partially of his own creation.

    He's an Affluenza suffering wannabe, who's all of a sudden become bizarrely worshipped by media, Stockholm syndrome Raptors fans and cuckold Spurs fans alike.
    If Kawhi wins a third finals MVP with a third different franchise, it will be hard to argue against his legacy, tbh.

    Also, everybody in their absolute peak, give me Kawhi over Kobe, Curry, Malone, Barkley, Robertson, etc.

  17. #17
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    If Kawhi wins a third finals MVP with a third different franchise, it will be hard to argue against his legacy, tbh.

    Also, everybody in their absolute peak, give me Kawhi over Kobe, Curry, Malone, Barkley, Robertson, etc.
    You sound like a casual/agenda driven media. What does that matter when the first he had no business winning as a role player (and nod to James) and the other two are/would be contrived and therefore tainted? You make it sound like he's dragging mediocre teams to championships.

    In the "player empowerment" era, Finals MVP has become wildly overrated. It's a microcosm, many times the opponent is overmatched and when close, they become arbitrary. You'd think the Ginobili fanboy of all people would know that.
    Last edited by TD 21; 06-18-2020 at 11:45 PM.

  18. #18
    Erryday I'm Hustlin' Robz4000's Avatar
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    Top 10: MJ, Lebron, Kareem, Magic, Duncan, Bird, Wilt, Shaq, Hakeem, Russell

    11-20: Kirby, Dirk, Curry, Moses Malone, Oscar Robertson, Admiral, KG, Dominos, Pedo Malone, Barkley

  19. #19
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    You sound like a casual/agenda driven media. What does that matter when the first he had no business winning as a role player (and nod to James) and the other two are/would be contrived and therefore tainted? You make it sound like he's dragging mediocre teams to championships.

    In the "player empowerment" era, Finals MVP has become wildly overrated. It's a microcosm, many times the opponent is overmatched and when close, they become arbitrary. You'd think the Ginobili fanboy of all people would know that.
    I know how great Ginobili was. And I know how great Kawhi is. Don't hate me for calling it how it is, tbh.

    You seem to be ignoring the fact that I would take peak Kawhi over every player ever except the 7 or 8 elite ones.

  20. #20
    6X ST MVP
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    Basketball Reference used to have rankings voted on by internet users. They get rid of those?

  21. #21
    Because I choose to. Neo.'s Avatar
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    I know this is where most will disagree with me because they never saw Manu as a franchise player in the NBA for an extended period of time, but I have no doubt in my mind he will have done pretty damn good at that role.
    could have would have should have

    fact is manu never was a franchise player at any point of his career. i also dont doubt that he could have had success as i feel he was always very underrated and underappreciated. regardless, he never actually did.

    on the other hand, dirk had a type of long-term success that few players have ever had (winning 50+ for 11 straight years in a tough western conference, getting to the finals twice, winning a championship, finals MVP, league MVP, 11 all-nba selections including 4 first-teams in a forward heavy era), which is more baffling that you say he is not a true elite franchise player, when he actually legitimately was, unlike manu who never was the franchise player at any point, yet you think he is a tier right below true elite franchise players

    to say dirk wasnt a true elite franchise player (when he was), and that manu is in the same tier as him as being just below true elite franchise players (despite never at any point being a franchise player period), is about as ridiculous as it gets. basically, manu > dirk levels of bad.

  22. #22
    Believe. i'm_still_beta's Avatar
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    11- Moses Malone
    12- Kobe
    13- Oscar Robertson
    14- Jerry West
    15- Dr J
    16- Curry
    17- Dirk
    18- Garnett
    19- Barkley
    20- Karl Malone

  23. #23
    Enemy of the System Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    -Erving
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    -Leonard
    -Barkley

  24. #24
    Veteran KobesAchilles's Avatar
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    Based on career accomplishments, mixed with peak individual seasons*

    Top 10: Jordan, Lebron, Duncan, Magic, Bird, Wilt, Russell, Kareem, Shaq, Robertson

    11- Hakeem
    12- Moses Malone
    13- Durant
    14- Curry
    15- Kobe
    16- Robinson
    17- Garnett
    18- Dirk
    19- Karl Malone
    20- Barkley

    Kawhi is one regular season MVP or another ring away from leapfrogging all the way to top 10.
    My two cents. Both Durant and Steph haven’t had better careers or better peaks than Kobe. Can’t even say it’s a talent thing bc Durant played with 3 MVPs in his career. If Durants career ended today (which honestly it might as we know it) he is behind Kobe I’m almost every feasible way. Points, assists, les, all nba, all star, etc etc

    Also Garnett is not the second greatest PF of all time. He just isn’t. One ring isn’t enough to put him ahead of Charles, Dirk, and Malone. Garnett never led the T-Wolves to except one year. Charles led teams made the Finals/ CF. Same for Dirk (except he won his ring as lead dog), and Malone making it to the Finals twice with Utah’s ty ass roster is more impressive than the 08 season to me.

  25. #25
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    I know how great Ginobili was. And I know how great Kawhi is. Don't hate me for calling it how it is, tbh.

    You seem to be ignoring the fact that I would take peak Kawhi over every player ever except the 7 or 8 elite ones.
    These are just pla udes that don't address any point I brought up.

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