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  1. #26
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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  2. #27
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    Also, I find your logic dissonance interesting. So the powerful elite, who wants to control us, is cooking up numbers in order to "put us back in our cages," but this same powerful elite isn't "cooking up numbers" with regards to murders in the CHAZ, which was actually a definitive statement against control and thus the elites? Isn't a declaration of freedom from government the ultimate declaration of liberty? Yet you started threads criticizing the CHAZ and citing the murders there with confidence. Hmmm. Maybe the "elites" feared the CHAZ would spark a national wide revolution if its members proved the concept, so stands to reason they'd cook up a few murders to demonize it.

    Seems like you're only concerned about "elites" when you perceive those elites to be on the side of leftist causes.
    I think you're in disbelief that there are elitists who seek to pull the levers of power in a way that doesn't benefit society.
    You seem very offended at the very thought.

  3. #28
    SeaGOAT midnightpulp's Avatar
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    I think you're in disbelief that there are elitists who seek to pull the levers of power in a way that doesn't benefit society.
    You seem very offended at the very thought.
    Nice way to deflect from owning up to your logic. Again, I ask, WHY are they cooking Covid stats to control us but didn't cook the CHAZ situation to also control us? I figure there is nothing the elites would hate more than a communal, autonomous society free from government and corporations. I just want your skepticism to be even-handed and consistent. The CHAZ was indeed a STATEMENT against elite control. Yet you started a thread decrying all the lawlessness in the CHAZ. What makes you think those murders weren't a "false flag?"

    And no, I wasn't in favor of the CHAZ if you want to request that I be consistent.

  4. #29
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    Nice way to deflect from owning up to your logic. Again, I ask, WHY are they cooking Covid stats to control us but didn't cook the CHAZ situation to also control us? I figure there is nothing the elites would hate more than a communal, autonomous society free from government and corporations. I just want your skepticism to be even-handed and consistent. The CHAZ was indeed a STATEMENT against elite control. Yet you started a thread decrying all the lawlessness in the CHAZ. What makes you think those murders weren't a "false flag?"

    And no, I wasn't in favor of the CHAZ if you want to request that I be consistent.
    Not at all. You have a strong predisposition to oppose people who don't buy the narratives of the powerful elite.
    You trust them implicitly. It's why you're struggling with people daring to call out the fakery of it all.
    Frankly, you really really believe in government; and that's amusing given how many ass clowns rise in their ranks.

  5. #30
    SeaGOAT midnightpulp's Avatar
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    Not at all. You have a strong predisposition to oppose people who don't buy the narratives of the powerful elite.
    You trust them implicitly. It's why you're struggling with people daring to call out the fakery of it all.
    Frankly, you really really believe in government; and that's amusing given how many ass clowns rise in their ranks.
    still deflecting.

    You seem to believe those same elites, too. You bought, hook/line/and-sinker, the "news" that the CHAZ turned into an orgy of lawlessness and murder. Why can't you just simply answer the question of why you believe the events and reporting on the CHAZ was accurate (which again, if you're not getting the point, was a demonstration against government), but the reporting on Covid is manufactured.

    I'm fine with cops doing their f*cking jobs and restoring order.
    . Cops are the tip of the spear of the elites, my dude.

  6. #31
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    You bought, hook/line/and-sinker, the "news" that the CHAZ turned into an orgy of lawlessness and murder.
    That's your hyperbolic language, not mine. It was lawlessness even if many person were behaving well enough. Cops were prohibited from enforcing the law.
    That's the very definition of lawlessness, dude.

    . Cops are the tip of the spear of the elites, my dude.
    In essence they are. And I called them out for clearing out people peaceably behaving on the streets.
    But that doesn't mean they weren't derelict of duty in letting anarchists have a pass before that.

  7. #32
    SeaGOAT midnightpulp's Avatar
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    That's your hyperbolic language, not mine. It was lawlessness even if many person were behaving well enough. Cops were prohibited from enforcing the law.
    That's the very definition of lawlessness, dude.
    And that law is crafted by elites. I'm surprised you're not asking yourself why the CHAZ was shut down so quickly? "Restoring order" is the first step toward tyranny. Always has been. Dictactors and fascists always promise to "restore order."

    Again, I'm not in favor of the CHAZ. I'm just surprised you weren't, given your beliefs. Oh, I know why you weren't. Because they are "leftists." So really, you're more motivated by banal partisan politics than an actual ideology of liberty. You might say, "Well, I was gonna give the CHAZ a chance until the murders." But again, how do we know those murders weren't a false flag to drum up sentiment against the CHAZ?

    In essence they are. And I called them out for clearing out people peaceably behaving on the streets.
    But that doesn't mean they weren't derelict of duty in letting anarchists have a pass before that.
    Anarchy is the only viable ideology with regard to total freedom from "elites." Once you introduce an instrument of control that is state sponsored (like police), you reopen the door for elite control. Self-policing via the community is the solution (but this could also degenerate to hierarchical control), which the CHAZ implemented. That's why, again, I'm surprised you weren't gung-ho to see it succeed.

  8. #33
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    And that law is crafted by elites. I'm surprised you're not asking yourself why the CHAZ was shut down so quickly? "Restoring order" is the first step toward tyranny. Always has been. Dictactors and fascists always promise to "restore order."
    So quickly? , they had weeks of just being vagrants on the street to the detriment of business owners.

    And I think you're taking liberty with the word order. There isn't a successful society doesn't have some form of order.
    Sure, tyrants often love the thinly veiled veneer of order; but that doesn't take away the need for it.

    People have rights; we should all fight to keep them. COVID-19 plandemic and the preceding events have all been about taking those rights away.

    Why would I be for CHAZ? Because they're protesting for what the elites want them to protest so they can divide and conquer?
    You shouldn't be surprised ever that I'm not a pawn. TheGreatYacht

  9. #34
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    Anarchy is the only viable ideology with regard to total freedom from "elites." Once you introduce an instrument of control that is state sponsored (like police), you reopen the door for elite control. Self-policing via the community is the solution (but this could also degenerate to hierarchical control), which the CHAZ implemented. That's why, again, I'm surprised you weren't gung-ho to see it succeed.
    Anarchy is not freedom. Anarchy is anarchy. You're really hitting special levels of stupid.

    But pushing past that, I don't live in a dream world where the power will ever be divided equally. But that's why it's extra important that our individual rights are respected. It's why we the people should take control of our government. At current, it is corporately owned more than ever.

  10. #35
    SeaGOAT midnightpulp's Avatar
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    Anarchy is not freedom. Anarchy is anarchy. You're really hitting special levels of stupid.

    But pushing past that, I don't live in a dream world where the power will ever be divided equally. But that's why it's extra important that our individual rights are respected. It's why we the people should take control of our government. At current, it is corporately owned more than ever.
    No. Anarchy is freedom. Freedom doesn't always imply positive outcomes, but it's defined as complete freedom for hierarchy, hence the name. But yes, freedom to murder, rape, steal isn't a positive freedom at all.

    It's why we the people should take control of our government.
    , this is anarchy. And your inability to see the contradiction is "special levels of stupid." This what the CHAZ attempted. By the people, for the people. This is why anarchy is skeptical of "government" because government always inevitably moves to a tier above "the people" on the ladder of social hierarchy. Indeed, government officials are supposed to be instruments of our collective will, but they all too often use their positions to grow their power, enrich themselves, and play favor to "special interests." There is "no taking it back" without anarchy.

    Best we can do is hold them to merciless accountability, but that's also not possible in the US because of the prevalence of conspiracy theories, partisan disagreement and R and D fans alike not wanting to abandon their team. Trump is the perfect example. He's ed up in so many ways that is beyond belief, he should've been ousted long ago, but the R team won't forsake him and think everything negative about him is a "deep state" ploy. So here we are.

    We also have too much political disagreement in the country to collectively "take our government back." I believe in universal healthcare, and no argument will convince me otherwise. You think it's the first step toward communism, and no argument will convince you otherwise, so again, here we are. I honestly think the best theoretical solution to this is implementing hard states rights. If Alabama wants for-profit-healthcare, cool. If California wants universal healthcare, cool. And states fund it out of their pocket, and we get rid of states subsidizing other states. Mississippi, Arkansas, Alabama and the rest of these deep south states can "pull themselves up by their bootstraps."

    And the role of the Federal Government should be restricted to foreign affairs ONLY (as originally intended), with the president basically acting as the lead diplomat. Not the LEADER of the country. I think this would heal a lot of division. The US is too culturally and ideologically different from region to region. One person can't and shouldn't represent us all. The President is an obsolete concept.

  11. #36
    Ina world of hype, we win IronMexican's Avatar
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    Okay, so Coronavirus has killed 130k people, and wingnuts on various forums and social media platforms keep insisting the media is "fear mongering" us so they can control us, drive up ratings, etc. They also keep saying, "Yeee haaaawwww, I'm less likely to die of the Covid than a car accident!" (not true). They'll also say that anyone fearing Covid (liberals) are pussies and need to toughen up and live life. Cool.

    But when a story breaks about an illegal alien murdering someone, Conservatives believe that is just the start of Messicans and other browns flooding into their neighborhoods and raping and pillaging everything in sight. Or we can go back further and do ent their fear of various Islamic terrorist factions, them thinking ISIS or Al Qaeda will be soon flying planes into every skyscraper in the country if we don't "shock and awe" the Middle East back to the stone age and ban travel from the Middle East.

    Facts are, you're much, much more likely to die of Covid than be killed by a Messican or Muslim, but conservatives fear the latter event much more.

    Any theories on why that is? Seems to make no sense to me given the odds of each happening. Again, you're more likely to harmed or killed by the Coronavirus than an illegal alien or terrorist. Wonder why conservative don't call it fear mongering when the Fox Newses and Briebarts breathlessly report on instances of an illegal killing someone in a car accident or Muslim knife attack in the UK. Those events are exceedingly are.
    Because conservatives are the party of trump now. The days of "moderate republicans" are long and gone, and probably have been since the tea party.

    This post had my dying, though, because they're probably more scared of MS 13 breaking though their house and assassinating the entire house than they are of dying of covidd

  12. #37
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    No. Anarchy is freedom.
    You really want to play this game?
    Sure anarchy is freedom if it can actually be achieved.
    The people in CHAZ never had some sort of real anarchy. They were always under a thumb.
    Snowflake anarchy is not freedom. Let's delve into ridiculous avenues.

  13. #38
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    , this is anarchy. And your inability to see the contradiction is "special levels of stupid."
    You're so butthurt that you're saying that the government by the people for the people is stupid.

  14. #39
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    , this is anarchy. And your inability to see the contradiction is "special levels of stupid." This what the CHAZ attempted. By the people, for the people. This is why anarchy is skeptical of "government" because government always inevitably moves to a tier above "the people" on the ladder of social hierarchy.
    It's debatable what CHAZ was doing because there's a lot of convoluted narrative surrounding it. But if I accept the premise that they were trying to "break free", then obviously I think that's wishful thinking at best. Frankly, I don't much stock in what they think they were doing. I maintain that they were tools of the corporations. Their "plight" is designed to distract from real issues. These aren't educated persons with great outlooks. They're fostered crybabies that are disassociated from the real world mostly. (And I get the irony that I sound elitist in saying this ).

  15. #40
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    Best we can do is hold them to merciless accountability, but that's also not possible in the US because of the prevalence of conspiracy theories, partisan disagreement and R and D fans alike not wanting to abandon their team.
    Crying about "conspiracy theories"

    Like I say, you take it personally that people are calling out the elites. You really believe they're looking out for you.

  16. #41
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    Trump is the perfect example. He's ed up in so many ways that is beyond belief, he should've been ousted long ago, but the R team won't forsake him and think everything negative about him is a "deep state" ploy. So here we are.
    Snowflake can't respect the voters.
    Cries about the team construct while bawling that his team lost.

  17. #42
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    We also have too much political disagreement in the country to collectively "take our government back."
    Sure. And it's made worse when we disagree about stuff that doesn't matter, like fake systematic racism. Again, the elites got what they wanted.
    They can now us over while their bought and paid for media highlights fake issues instead of talking about real ones. TheGreatYacht

  18. #43
    Ina world of hype, we win IronMexican's Avatar
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    You're so butthurt that you're saying that the government by the people for the people is stupid.
    We're ing stupid, though.

  19. #44
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    Because conservatives are the party of trump now. The days of "moderate republicans" are long and gone, and probably have been since the tea party.
    Negative. We still exist.

  20. #45
    Ina world of hype, we win IronMexican's Avatar
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    Sure. And it's made worse when we disagree about stuff that doesn't matter, like fake systematic racism. Again, the elites got what they wanted.
    To en extent I agree. I agree that we need to fight the racism that police have towards minorities. I hate leaving my house for work at 5 in the morning and having a cop flash their light at me, It's demoralizing and something no one should have to go thugh, and probably something only something peiple living in the city go through. So I enjoy when people push back and make police have to second guess what they do.

    I just can't stand the corporations who are just there, ready to cash in on whatever they can. That being the BLM movemenet, or slapping a rainbow on their billboard, because it's that time of the month.

  21. #46
    Ina world of hype, we win IronMexican's Avatar
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    Negative. We still exist.
    You exist but trump runs your party

    Ylu are few and far between

  22. #47
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    I believe in universal healthcare, and no argument will convince me otherwise. You think it's the first step toward communism, and no argument will convince you otherwise, so again, here we are. I honestly think the best theoretical solution to this is implementing hard states rights. If Alabama wants for-profit-healthcare, cool. If California wants universal healthcare, cool. And states fund it out of their pocket, and we get rid of states subsidizing other states. Mississippi, Arkansas, Alabama and the rest of these deep south states can "pull themselves up by their bootstraps."
    You do realize it's Democrats who are taking the handouts in the red states? If you want to make welfare a state by state issue, guess who's gonna get their systems overloaded?

    Look, big government was never Cons utional. And the people who have sought to ins ute it haven't sought to change the Cons ution by the rules; they've only bypassed it. That's why we have all these problems. People like you don't want to play by the rules; but you want to cry your eyeballs out when stuff doesn't work.

  23. #48
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    To en extent I agree. I agree that we need to fight the racism that police have towards minorities. I hate leaving my house for work at 5 in the morning and having a cop flash their light at me, It's demoralizing and something no one should have to go thugh, and probably something only something peiple living in the city go through. So I enjoy when people push back and make police have to second guess what they do.

    I just can't stand the corporations who are just there, ready to cash in on whatever they can. That being the BLM movemenet, or slapping a rainbow on their billboard, because it's that time of the month.
    That happens to us all. I'm white. It happens to me.

    Guess who it doesn't happen to? The guy driving a Mercedes Benz. And if it does, he'll live. He's going to a job that easily pays whatever ticket he doesn't get.
    They want us fighting because then we're not talking about how they're getting rich. They don't want us talking about how they're getting rich for fake COVID hospitalizations.

  24. #49
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    We also have too much political disagreement in the country to collectively "take our government back." I believe in universal healthcare, and no argument will convince me otherwise. You think it's the first step toward communism, and no argument will convince you otherwise, so again, here we are. I honestly think the best theoretical solution to this is implementing hard states rights. If Alabama wants for-profit-healthcare, cool. If California wants universal healthcare, cool. And states fund it out of their pocket, and we get rid of states subsidizing other states. Mississippi, Arkansas, Alabama and the rest of these deep south states can "pull themselves up by their bootstraps."

    And the role of the Federal Government should be restricted to foreign affairs ONLY (as originally intended), with the president basically acting as the lead diplomat. Not the LEADER of the country. I think this would heal a lot of division. The US is too culturally and ideologically different from region to region. One person can't and shouldn't represent us all. The President is an obsolete concept.
    Well, even though I 'd at your initial argumentation, I agree with you on limiting the scope of the Feds. We all know Commerce Clause, etc. was BS. Feds have the power. But we are certainly in the minority on our outlook. The people don't agree won't agree 'til it's too late and they're getting f'd up the arse by big brother.

  25. #50
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    I don't care if you think Trump is the worst person in the world and it's somehow true.
    The fact that you don't understand what has happened here speaks to your hyper partisanship.
    You should step back and get perspective.

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