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  1. #51
    SeaGOAT midnightpulp's Avatar
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    That happens to us all. I'm white. It happens to me.

    Guess who it doesn't happen to? The guy driving a Mercedes Benz. And if it does, he'll live. He's going to a job that easily pays whatever ticket he doesn't get.
    They want us fighting because then we're not talking about how they're getting rich.
    They don't want us talking about how they're getting rich for fake COVID hospitalizations.
    But your side doesn't want to increase their taxes and limit their power. Jeff Bezos shouldn't have 200 billion worth of power behind him. I'm no communist, but there has to be a middle ground to limit the kind of power a person of that kind of wealth has.

  2. #52
    SeaGOAT midnightpulp's Avatar
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    I don't care if you think Trump is the worst person in the world and it's somehow true.
    The fact that you don't understand what has happened here speaks to your hyper partisanship.
    You should step back and get perspective.
    So you believe, you really believe, that Trump is out to fight the "deep state?" The guy is really just a bargain basement republican with a big mouth. There's nothing "revolutionary" in his platform. Never has been. He's "deep state" all the same and is enriching himself just the same, like every other sociopathic politician.

  3. #53
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    But your side doesn't want to increase their taxes and limit their power. Jeff Bezos shouldn't have 200 billion worth of power behind him. I'm no communist, but there has to be a middle ground to limit the kind of power a person of that kind of wealth has.
    I don't think I ever argue so vociferously about taxing the uber rich. Nor do I sperm shield for the corporations tax loop holes.
    But let's not pretend that the we're not talking about just taxing the out of people who are just doing well when these debates arise.
    If we can compartmentalize it to the oligarchs, who I think are the root of these problems, then sure. Let's do that. Let's talk about getting rid of the fed, etc.
    I'm all for the social contract being real while not punishing merit.

  4. #54
    Ina world of hype, we win IronMexican's Avatar
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    That happens to us all. I'm white. It happens to me.

    Guess who it doesn't happen to? The guy driving a Mercedes Benz. And if it does, he'll live. He's going to a job that easily pays whatever ticket he doesn't get.
    They want us fighting because then we're not talking about how they're getting rich. They don't want us talking about how they're getting rich for fake COVID hospitalizations.
    It doesn't matter. I live in one of the upper class black neighborhoods in LA, but it means nothing. The old man watering his grass at 5 in the morning gets the light flashed at him, much like I do. Cars have nothingto do with it, and it's a lot about where you live. And if you live in an area with black and brown people, the cops are going to hit you with their lights, even if it's just a way to demoralize you.

  5. #55
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    So you believe, you really believe, that Trump is out to fight the "deep state?" The guy is really just a bargain basement republican with a big mouth. There's nothing "revolutionary" in his platform. Never has been. He's "deep state" all the same and is enriching himself just the same, like every other sociopathic politician.
    That's a goalpost move. You were laughing that the deep state is real. Let's not make this about your TDS.

  6. #56
    SeaGOAT midnightpulp's Avatar
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    You do realize it's Democrats who are taking the handouts in the red states? If you want to make welfare a state by state issue, guess who's gonna get their systems overloaded?

    Look, big government was never Cons utional. And the people who have sought to ins ute it haven't sought to change the Cons ution by the rules; they've only bypassed it. That's why we have all these problems. People like you don't want to play by the rules; but you want to cry your eyeballs out when stuff doesn't work.
    I'm sure all those white trash fentynal addicts in Missouri and Oklahoma are "democrats."

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/michaelpinto/2987025203

  7. #57
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    It doesn't matter. I live in one of the upper class black neighborhoods in LA, but it means nothing. The old man watering his grass at 5 in the morning gets the light flashed at him, much like I do. Cars have nothingto do with it, and it's a lot about where you live. And if you live in an area with black and brown people, the cops are going to hit you with their lights, even if it's just a way to demoralize you.
    Cops speak money like everyone else. If you live in that good a neighborhood, they're not systematically screwing with people. They've been paid.

  8. #58
    SeaGOAT midnightpulp's Avatar
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    That's a goalpost move. You were laughing that the deep state is real. Let's not make this about your TDS.
    Nice dodge of the question. This isn't about TDS. Trump's platform is mainstream republican. What makes you believe a mainstream republican is going to fight the "deep state?" I would expect someone who vowed to fight the "deep state" would have a revolutionary platform of some kind. But Trump is bargain basement tax cuts for the rich, hard-line immigration, pro-military, pro-Jeebus, and stacking the court with mainstream conservative judges.

  9. #59
    SeaGOAT midnightpulp's Avatar
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    I don't think I ever argue so vociferously about taxing the uber rich. Nor do I sperm shield for the corporations tax loop holes.
    But let's not pretend that the we're not talking about just taxing the out of people who are just doing well when these debates arise.
    If we can compartmentalize it to the oligarchs, who I think are the root of these problems, then sure. Let's do that. Let's talk about getting rid of the fed, etc.
    I'm all for the social contract being real while not punishing merit.
    I am. I wouldn't call for more taxes on the middle and lower classes. I would be in favor of tax breaks for small businesses under a certain valuation (because a 100 million dollar company can still call itself a "small business"). I'm all for building up small, family owned "mainstreet businesses" anyway possible and reducing corporate market share.

  10. #60
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    I'm sure all those white trash fentynal addicts in Missouri and Oklahoma are "democrats."

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/michaelpinto/2987025203
    I never mentioned race. Funny how your mind went there, eh? But those white addicts will be moving to the blue states too.
    Create incentives, people act accordingly.

  11. #61
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    I am. I wouldn't call for more taxes on the middle and lower classes. I would be in favor of tax breaks for small businesses under a certain valuation (because a 100 million dollar company can still call itself a "small business"). I'm all for building up small, family owned "mainstreet businesses" anyway possible and reducing corporate market share.
    I think that's a healthy outlook.

  12. #62
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    Nice dodge of the question. This isn't about TDS. Trump's platform is mainstream republican. What makes you believe a mainstream republican is going to fight the "deep state?" I would expect someone who vowed to fight the "deep state" would have a revolutionary platform of some kind. But Trump is bargain basement tax cuts for the rich, hard-line immigration, pro-military, pro-Jeebus, and stacking the court with mainstream conservative judges.
    Uh huh. And this all says the deep state is a hoax, somehow?

  13. #63
    Ina world of hype, we win IronMexican's Avatar
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    Nice dodge of the question. This isn't about TDS. Trump's platform is mainstream republican. What makes you believe a mainstream republican is going to fight the "deep state?" I would expect someone who vowed to fight the "deep state" would have a revolutionary platform of some kind. But Trump is bargain basement tax cuts for the rich, hard-line immigration, pro-military, pro-Jeebus, and stacking the court with mainstream conservative judges.
    He 100% offers all of what you mentioned. He's a neocom solely on following his oarty, but it's funny because he has helped rehabilitate W bush(among other republicans) and also made people like Spurtacular think he is offering something different when he isn;t. He's the same person W is and probably passed all the same bills McCain and Romney would have, had they won

  14. #64
    SeaGOAT midnightpulp's Avatar
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    Uh huh. And this all says the deep state is a hoax, somehow?
    If we define the "deep state" as a collective of sociopathic politicians and their corporate handlers doing unethical behind the scenes to enrich themselves, then the deep state is very real and Trump is a part of that "deep state." The "hoax" is that Trump is fighting these bad actors. He's a part of them. What's the first thing they did on their first official government visit to China? Ivanka cut a 150 million dollar trademark deal with a Chinese company

    Yeah, not acting like deep state oligarchs at all.

  15. #65
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    If we define the "deep state" as a collective of sociopathic politicians and their corporate handlers doing unethical behind the scenes to enrich themselves, then the deep state is very real and Trump is a part of that "deep state." The "hoax" is that Trump is fighting these bad actors. He's a part of them. What's the first thing they did on their first official government visit to China? Ivanka cut a 150 million dollar trademark deal with a Chinese company

    Yeah, not acting like deep state oligarchs at all.
    If you want to see it that way, fine. At least you're not denying the corruption of human nature.

  16. #66
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    He 100% offers all of what you mentioned. He's a neocom solely on following his oarty, but it's funny because he has helped rehabilitate W bush(among other republicans) and also made people like Spurtacular think he is offering something different when he isn;t. He's the same person W is and probably passed all the same bills McCain and Romney would have, had they won
    That's a misrepresentation of how I see it, tbh. I'm sure you only seen so many of my posts.

  17. #67
    SeaGOAT midnightpulp's Avatar
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    If you want to see it that way, fine. At least you're not denying the corruption of human nature.
    Not at all. The big problem is "the sociopath problem." Sociopaths crave power and control. Politics and wealth are ways of obtaining power and control, so ergo, those who will relentlessly pursue wealth and power are sociopaths. These are the people who wind up with the wealth and power and it invariably s us over, because I believe that decent, moral, "regular" people don't really crave power or excessive wealth (they would enjoy having excessive wealth, but they don't crave it nor would do anything to obtain it).

    I just don't see what Trump is doing to fight the "deep state?" Money controls politics, corporations have all the money, a true fighter of the deep state would roll in like Teddy Roosevelt and bust the out of all these conglomerates. Trump is just another nose in the trough.

  18. #68
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    Not at all. The big problem is "the sociopath problem." Sociopaths crave power and control. Politics and wealth are ways of obtaining power and control, so ergo, those who will relentlessly pursue wealth and power are sociopaths. These are the people who wind up with the wealth and power and it invariably s us over, because I believe that decent, moral, "regular" people don't really crave power or excessive wealth (they would enjoy having excessive wealth, but they don't crave it nor would do anything to obtain it).

    I just don't see what Trump is doing to fight the "deep state?" Money controls politics, corporations have all the money, a true fighter of the deep state would roll in like Teddy Roosevelt and bust the out of all these conglomerates. Trump is just another nose in the trough.
    Maybe not so much ultimately. It is good that people are understanding that these ins utions get off on their power and play by their own rules though.

    Before this, people cited FBI, CIA, etc. like they were infallible.

  19. #69
    Pronouns: Your/Dad TheGreatYacht's Avatar
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    Maybe not so much ultimately. It is good that people are understanding that these ins utions get off on their power and play by their own rules though.

    Before this, people cited FBI, CIA, etc. like they were infallible.
    Unfortunately both sides - left and right - still trust these criminal organizations when it suits their needs. The left trusts them when it comes to Covid and Russiagate and the blind MAGA patriots trust them when it comes to digging dirt on Venezuela, Iran or China. That's how you know when someone has woken up from the matrix, when they no longer have any trust in the criminal organizations of our government.

  20. #70
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    Unfortunately both sides - left and right - still trust these criminal organizations when it suits their needs. The left trusts them when it comes to Covid and Russiagate and the blind MAGA patriots trust them when it comes to digging dirt on Venezuela, Iran or China. That's how you know when someone has woken up from the matrix, when they no longer have any trust in the criminal organizations of our government.
    Conservatives not nearly as much. Obama weaponized IRS against them. Hillary/Obama weaponized FBI against them. CIA weaponized themselves against Trump.
    Many will have long memories.

  21. #71
    Pronouns: Your/Dad TheGreatYacht's Avatar
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    Conservatives not nearly as much. Obama weaponized IRS against them. Hillary/Obama weaponized FBI against them. CIA weaponized themselves against Trump.
    Many will have long memories.
    When leftists expose the US war crimes against Palestinians, Venezuelans or Yemen the conservatives just call them unpatriotic or conspiracy theorists. Sounds a lot to me like the snowflakes of the left tbh. But I do think it's much easier to wake up conservatives than Chumpettes.

  22. #72
    Still Hates Small Ball Spurminator's Avatar
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    That happens to us all. I'm white. It happens to me.

    Guess who it doesn't happen to? The guy driving a Mercedes Benz. And if it does, he'll live. He's going to a job that easily pays whatever ticket he doesn't get.
    They want us fighting because then we're not talking about how they're getting rich. They don't want us talking about how they're getting rich for fake COVID hospitalizations.
    Black guys in nice cars don't get harassed by police?

    Interesting take.

  23. #73
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    Nice way to deflect from owning up to your logic. Again, I ask, WHY are they cooking Covid stats to control us but didn't cook the CHAZ situation to also control us? I figure there is nothing the elites would hate more than a communal, autonomous society free from government and corporations. I just want your skepticism to be even-handed and consistent. The CHAZ was indeed a STATEMENT against elite control. Yet you started a thread decrying all the lawlessness in the CHAZ. What makes you think those murders weren't a "false flag?"

    And no, I wasn't in favor of the CHAZ if you want to request that I be consistent.
    why are you trying to apply logic with conspira s? if they had an ounce of introspection they would've asked those very basic questions themselves, and figured out rather quickly they don't add up. I would even hazard some of them are aware of that already, but "want to believe".

    When dealing with this kind of mentally troubled individuals, you definitely want to put in the balance what your time is worth, tbh

  24. #74
    Veteran vy65's Avatar
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    Okay, so Coronavirus has killed 130k people, and wingnuts on various forums and social media platforms keep insisting the media is "fear mongering" us so they can control us, drive up ratings, etc. They also keep saying, "Yeee haaaawwww, I'm less likely to die of the Covid than a car accident!" (not true). They'll also say that anyone fearing Covid (liberals) are pussies and need to toughen up and live life. Cool.

    But when a story breaks about an illegal alien murdering someone, Conservatives believe that is just the start of Messicans and other browns flooding into their neighborhoods and raping and pillaging everything in sight. Or we can go back further and do ent their fear of various Islamic terrorist factions, them thinking ISIS or Al Qaeda will be soon flying planes into every skyscraper in the country if we don't "shock and awe" the Middle East back to the stone age and ban travel from the Middle East.

    Facts are, you're much, much more likely to die of Covid than be killed by a Messican or Muslim, but conservatives fear the latter event much more.

    Any theories on why that is? Seems to make no sense to me given the odds of each happening. Again, you're more likely to harmed or killed by the Coronavirus than an illegal alien or terrorist. Wonder why conservative don't call it fear mongering when the Fox Newses and Briebarts breathlessly report on instances of an illegal killing someone in a car accident or Muslim knife attack in the UK. Those events are exceedingly are.
    I am really glad for the protests. I think it pretty obvious now that police departments throughout the country have deep, systemic issues that they need to address. In an ideal world, I’d support some version of anarchy because that be meaningful liberty from oppression, as you mention downthread. But we don’t live in that world, so a deep reckoning of police power is incredibly welcome.

    That said, there is something of an unspoken assumption in your post - that being that those on the other side are seemingly consistent and that the hypocrisy is solely on the conservatives side. I don’t think it consistent to push away concern for the coronavirus when we’re pushing for police reform and protesting racism and then be so concerned about it when those protests die down and we return to business as usual. There is an untold amount of suffering and pain being visited upon small businesses throughout the US. There’s no meaningful plan to help them weather the storm of the second surge over the past 5 weeks. If anything, it seems like we’ve collectively made a decision that bars, restaurants, small shops, etc will be sacrificed because we ed up round one of lockdown. I’m not scaremongering — Mayor Adler is proposing a 25 day lockdown of Austin, which is re ed because nowhere else in Texas or the sunbelt will follow suit.

    If people are concerned - as they should be - about alleviating others suffering, why aren’t “leftists” (I hate that term) having a conversation about how to save small business? Why aren’t liberals insisting on the need to go to restaurants or small shops etc (responsibly and safely) to make sure that they remain in business? I’m painting with broad strokes here, but the post-protest narrative have been “ es caused by reopening” and not “how do we make sure people can still make a living.” If the concern was truly about stopping suffering, I’d imagine that being a broader point of emphasis.

    I may be misreading between the lines of your post. But I don’t think it fair to characterize hypocrisy and contradiction as something exclusively in the possession of conservatives.

  25. #75
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    The thing I noticed about left wingers during the coronavirus pandemic is that they cowered in complete fear until they reached their limit then they lashed out with violent protests and total disregard for protecting others from the virus

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