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  1. #101
    4-25-20 Will Hunting's Avatar
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    ^^^ Snowflake exhibit A... BTW, as I was telling TGY, it's not your body that's being protected here, it's somebody else's.

    This is closer to drink & drive. It's not protecting you, it's protecting the people you can potentially kill by your carelessness.
    There’s also been ordinances since before any of us were alive requiring a certain amount of clothing in public. It’s never been legal to walk around in public completely nude, face mask requirements are just an extension of those laws. It’s not some grossly uncons utional government overreach the way the snowflakes pretend it is.

  2. #102
    Still Hates Small Ball Spurminator's Avatar
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    However, I think that all forms of business need to be opened up to the extent they can. There’s no reason why an outdoor bar should be closed right now. There’s no reason why an outdoor concert should be stopped right now. If we could protest racism for weeks, we can provide people a night out at some approximation of normalcy. Fighting racism is incredibly important and laudable. So is making a living. If we are for one we should be for the other as well.
    I don't disagree with this. I think some of the closures have treated some businesses in the affected categories as though they all operate exactly the same. Not all bars are unsafe. Not sure about concerts but there's probably a limited-capacity option that keeps outdoor venues open.

    In hindsight the government needs a backup option to manage essential businesses in extreme cir stances. We should have shut everything down in March. Ration food and essential supplies. Stop loan repayments and all penalties. Stop mortgage and loan payments. Larger stimulus checks for individuals. There's a way to get it done, we just don't have the stomach for it. We're afraid to pause capitalism.

  3. #103
    Veteran vy65's Avatar
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    Its never going to happen, but if you simply replaced the electoral college with a popular vote and got rid of a ed up system where Dakota gets twice as many senators as California because of arbitrary borders I think that would take care of it. The ultimate issue is that muh deepstate is overrepreseted because of an outdated cons ution that doesn’t account for massive population disparities.
    My con law professor wrote a book about how undemocratic the cons ution is - and you don’t need to look further than the electoral college or the process of abolishing it to realize he’s right.

    My ideas don’t require a change to the college - although that is an obvious and quick fix. So conceiveably it could be palatable to the soros crowd. But it ain’t never gonna happen.

  4. #104
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    Agree with much of this. States have to balance this and that doesn’t make sense in a pandemic. Viruses don’t observe state lines. The states have a profound role in handling the response, but the primary responsibility is on the federal government.

    I disagree with the concert analogy. And this is my point: if we’re not taking issue with the protests then we shouldn’t take issue with ACL. There’s been several studies that show there has been de minimis transmission from the protests. Outdoor concerts are no different. It’s inconsistent to say outdoor protests where people are packed together are fine while other outdoor events with similar density are not. And things like ACL would provide a massive economic shot in the arm too.
    I take issue with protests. I get that people are angry and want to be heard, but it's undeniably a boneheaded thing to do during a pandemic, and while not the sole reason we're seeing serious infection rebounds in places, I'm sure it's also a factor.

  5. #105
    Veteran vy65's Avatar
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    I don't disagree with this. I think some of the closures have treated some businesses in the affected categories as though they all operate exactly the same. Not all bars are unsafe. Not sure about concerts but there's probably a limited-capacity option that keeps outdoor venues open.

    In hindsight the government needs a backup option to manage essential businesses in extreme cir stances. We should have shut everything down in March. Ration food and essential supplies. Stop loan repayments and all penalties. Stop mortgage and loan payments. Larger stimulus checks for individuals. There's a way to get it done, we just don't have the stomach for it. We're afraid to pause capitalism.
    The bit about rationing food is a bit too extreme for me, but otherwise yes. I mean, ostensibly that’s what FEMA is all about (insert x files conspiracy theory here). And many places did some approximation of what you suggest and the curve was bent. Part of the issue is how the time we bought was wasted.

  6. #106
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    There’s also been ordinances since before any of us were alive requiring a certain amount of clothing in public. It’s never been legal to walk around in public completely nude, face mask requirements are just an extension of those laws. It’s not some grossly uncons utional government overreach the way the snowflakes pretend it is.
    It's worse in that this is a safety measure at this time.

  7. #107
    4-25-20 Will Hunting's Avatar
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    My con law professor wrote a book about how undemocratic the cons ution is - and you don’t need to look further than the electoral college or the process of abolishing it to realize he’s right.

    My ideas don’t require a change to the college - although that is an obvious and quick fix. So conceiveably it could be palatable to the soros crowd. But it ain’t never gonna happen.
    The senate is even worse imo. Why the are there two Dakotas? It makes no logical sense that California gets half as many votes in judicial confirmation hearings than a population that’s a small fraction of California’s just because there’s an arbitrary line diving Dakota into a north and a south state.

  8. #108
    Veteran vy65's Avatar
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    There’s also been ordinances since before any of us were alive requiring a certain amount of clothing in public. It’s never been legal to walk around in public completely nude, face mask requirements are just an extension of those laws. It’s not some grossly uncons utional government overreach the way the snowflakes pretend it is.
    This.

  9. #109
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    I also think it’s more important than ever to take a step back and ask some fundamental questions about the system of government itself. When you look at the es and the amount dead and compare it to other first world countries, there can be no conclusion other than that America failed and failed hard. And that’s directly on our leadership, especially at the federal level. I don’t think there’s any question that the Donald is uniquely ill suited, under qualified, and absolutely unfit for the job. But his ability to us over this hard is directly on a voting public that thinks it more important to drink libcuck tears or Muh Deepstate than to actually evaluate whether someone is capable of leading. This is the flip side of the fact that trump supporters can’t defend his coronavirus response and endlessly deflect to other inane topics.

    So what do we do about that? You could impose voting restrictions based on education level. (I’m in favor). You could make political office more appealing to smarter people by ins uting an nba-level pay scale for senior office. You could place qualification requirements on candidates (I.e., education). Or some mixture of all the above. I know that’s profoundly anti-democratic, but we’re living at the opposite end of the spectrum where you’re as qualified as a preeminent epidemiologist if you have a twitter account, apparently. The pandemic and the federal response is direct refutation of the notion that everyone should have a say in how government operates.
    I think we do ask those questions all the time. The problem is, with this level of polarization, how do you even pass a Cons utional amendment? So it's somewhat moot.

    There's actually an important case in front of the SCOTUS right now, Chiafalo v. Washington (and a separate, but related one), which can have large implications about the Electoral College.

  10. #110
    Veteran vy65's Avatar
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    The senate is even worse imo. Why the are there two Dakotas? It makes no logical sense that California gets half as many votes in judicial confirmation hearings than a population that’s a small fraction of California’s just because there’s an arbitrary line diving Dakota into a north and a south state.
    It makes sense when you understand that the original cons utional architecture was a watered down confederacy of states. While a confederacy of states was ultimately rejected, what we have was an attempt to prioritize states rights while still maintaining federal supremacy.

    That all changed with the civil war and the 14th and 15th amendments. Changes should’ve been crammed down at that time.

  11. #111
    Veteran vy65's Avatar
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    I think we do ask those questions all the time. The problem is, with this level of polarization, how do you even pass a Cons utional amendment? So it's somewhat moot.

    There's actually an important case in front of the SCOTUS right now, Chiafalo v. Washington (and a separate, but related one), which can have large implications about the Electoral College.
    We do ask those questions, but I think it anathema to suggest that people shouldn’t get a say or a voice or a vote. Frankly, given that we have idiots like Chris and Spurtacular able to spout their re ed garbage is a real problem. So I think that there should be a conversation about restricting speech - I think that we don’t deserve democracy right now.

  12. #112
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    We do ask those questions, but I think it anathema to suggest that people shouldn’t get a say or a voice or a vote. Frankly, given that we have idiots like Chris and Spurtacular able to spout their re ed garbage is a real problem. So I think that there should be a conversation about restricting speech - I think that we don’t deserve democracy right now.
    I think that's completely anti-democratic. I'm not concerned about the Chris or Derps (or boutons, for that matter), because, at the end of the day, they're a minority. They're not the main reason Trump won.

    What we really need to have a discussion about, and doesn't require a Cons utional amendment, is why do we end up with the POTUS candidates we end up with? And that's probably what should be addressed more thoroughly.

  13. #113
    4-25-20 Will Hunting's Avatar
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    It makes sense when you understand that the original cons utional architecture was a watered down confederacy of states. While a confederacy of states was ultimately rejected, what we have was an attempt to prioritize states rights while still maintaining federal supremacy.

    That all changed with the civil war and the 14th and 15th amendments. Changes should’ve been crammed down at that time.
    To be fair, Lincoln was already walking a tight rope just to do something as obviously overdue as outlawing slavery. If he tried something like making it so states like New York and Pennsylvania got more senators for having more people, border states like Kentucky and Missouri might have jumped ship..

  14. #114
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    To be fair, Lincoln was already walking a tight rope just to do something as obviously overdue as outlawing slavery. If he tried something like making it so states like New York and Pennsylvania got more senators for having more people, border states like Kentucky and Missouri might have jumped ship..
    In retrospect, that doesn't sound like a terrible idea... shoulda let Mexico annex them, tbh

  15. #115
    4-25-20 Will Hunting's Avatar
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    In retrospect, that doesn't sound like a terrible idea... shoulda let Mexico annex them, tbh
    I would definitely let re states secede from the union and after enough of them do, make all the cons utional amendments that are much needed, then let Alabama back in after its devolved into complete chaos because it needs it needs the tax welfare it gets from blue states.

  16. #116
    Veteran vy65's Avatar
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    I think that's completely anti-democratic. I'm not concerned about the Chris or Derps (or boutons, for that matter), because, at the end of the day, they're a minority. They're not the main reason Trump won.

    What we really need to have a discussion about, and doesn't require a Cons utional amendment, is why do we end up with the POTUS candidates we end up with? And that's probably what should be addressed more thoroughly.
    Exactly. That’s why I like the idea of making federal office seem monetarily prestigious.

    If I’m a smart guy, I’m going to choose the career path where I can make 10s of millions of dollars versus the option where I’m maxed out at 200k. People go where the money is at. That’s why I suggested increasing pay for federal officials by 10x. You can sure as bet more intelligent and younger people will vie for federal office if they are looking at making millions rather than thousands.

  17. #117
    non-essential Chris's Avatar
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    We do ask those questions, but I think it anathema to suggest that people shouldn’t get a say or a voice or a vote. Frankly, given that we have idiots like Chris and Spurtacular able to spout their re ed garbage is a real problem. So I think that there should be a conversation about restricting speech - I think that we don’t deserve democracy right now.
    asinine

  18. #118
    Veteran vy65's Avatar
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  19. #119
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    Both party establishments are financed by the oligarchy.

    Even the Dems will nominate no candidate, espouse no policy, regulation, or law that upsets BigDonor.

    That's why Dems blocked progressives like Bernie, made sure McGrath won, sniff at The Squad, and are against anything progressive, like Medicare for All.

    Occam's razor. In politics, simplest is to Follow The Money

  20. #120
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    Exactly. That’s why I like the idea of making federal office seem monetarily prestigious.

    If I’m a smart guy, I’m going to choose the career path where I can make 10s of millions of dollars versus the option where I’m maxed out at 200k. People go where the money is at. That’s why I suggested increasing pay for federal officials by 10x. You can sure as bet more intelligent and younger people will vie for federal office if they are looking at making millions rather than thousands.
    I dunno about that, I think politicos (appear at least) to make a decent living. I would definitely put an age ceiling, just like we have a floor, for POTUS qualification if we're amending the Cons ution, tbh... if you're over 55 once your term would start, you would be ineligible. This also applies to re-election.

  21. #121
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    double post

  22. #122
    Veteran vy65's Avatar
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  23. #123
    4-25-20 Will Hunting's Avatar
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    I dunno about that, I think politicos (appear at least) to make a decent living. I would definitely put an age ceiling, just like we have a floor, for POTUS qualification if we're amending the Cons ution, tbh... if you're over 55 once your term would start, you would be ineligible. This also applies to re-election.
    I’d agree with that but would probably go 65. Definitely against presidents in their 70s though.

  24. #124
    SeaGOAT midnightpulp's Avatar
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    We do ask those questions, but I think it anathema to suggest that people shouldn’t get a say or a voice or a vote. Frankly, given that we have idiots like Chris and Spurtacular able to spout their re ed garbage is a real problem. So I think that there should be a conversation about restricting speech - I think that we don’t deserve democracy right now.
    The government should never restrict speech, but this goal can be achieved in a different way. Social media platforms just need to mercilessly crack down on "bull ." I can hear Chris, et al caterwauling about "Big Brother" as I typed that, but they forget FREEDOM OF ASSEMBLY is also a feature of the first amendment, and a PRIVATE company has the right to police their platforms in who they allow to assemble.

    A simple analogy is: If I had some conspira spouting dangerous nonsense in my house, I'd tell him to shut the up or leave.

    I'm okay with innocuous "conspiracy theories" being shared. Lizard people controlling the government, Aliens, flat earth, and what have you. But the buck stops when it comes to like this:

    https://www.snopes.com/tachyon/2020/...masks-post.png

  25. #125
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    Well, if you want to get specific, I noticed right wingers couldn't bring themselves to say anything critical of President Trump while going out of their way to shame me for buying and wearing masks in general. One tried to shame me for posting a picture of what was later to be determined the wrong kind of mask unless part of that mask was covered in tape when that mask wasn't even purchased.
    Oh man that's sounds horrible and must be traumatic for you. If that person wasn't such a terrible human being he would've offered to send you the proper type of masks at his expense.

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