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  1. #26
    coffee's for closers FrostKing's Avatar
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    Half their skill players will stay home tbh. Niners all the way


    Also, hot take -- this may be the year for the Browns to finally get it together. With all the Covid kerfuffling they could conceivably make the playoffs and make a splash, especially if compe ors start sitting since some of them are all fat and happy
    NFC West is more loaded than the entire AFC. Then the Super Bowl is a separate en y treated as a showcase for global audience.

    Chiefs wouldn't survive the NFC playoffs but that's the point, they don't have to.

  2. #27
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    NFC West is more loaded than the entire AFC. Then the Super Bowl is a separate en y treated as a showcase for global audience.

    Chiefs wouldn't survive the NFC playoffs but that's the point, they don't have to.
    the NFC has won exactly 1 time since 2014, and that was the cinderalla story eagles

  3. #28
    Enemy of the System Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    the NFC has won exactly 1 time since 2014, and that was the cinderalla story eagles
    .....because QB tends to carry the day in the Super Bowl. the AFC has consistently been worse from top to bottom, but top heavy and especially top heavy at QB. Sort of like the Eastern Conference with Jordan/LeBron despite the West having much better overall teams top to bottom. But superstars tend to defeat balance on the highest playoff stages, across sports. You see it in the NBA, you see it in the NFL with QBs, and in baseball with ace pitchers.

    AFC has had the better of the two QBs in every Super Bowl since the Rodgers/Big Rape SB, and even that one was debatable.

  4. #29
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    .....because QB tends to carry the day in the Super Bowl. the AFC has consistently been worse from top to bottom, but top heavy and especially top heavy at QB. Sort of like the Eastern Conference with Jordan/LeBron despite the West having much better overall teams top to bottom. But superstars tend to defeat balance on the highest playoff stages, across sports. You see it in the NBA, you see it in the NFL with QBs, and in baseball with ace pitchers.

    AFC has had the better of the two QBs in every Super Bowl since the Rodgers/Big Rape SB, and even that one was debatable.
    NFC has elite talent like Wilson, Rodgers, dak tbh

  5. #30
    Enemy of the System Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    NFC West is more loaded than the entire AFC. Then the Super Bowl is a separate en y treated as a showcase for global audience.

    Chiefs wouldn't survive the NFC playoffs but that's the point, they don't have to.
    Not sure Mahomes wouldn't beat all 4 of the NFC West teams in a neutral setting (he already beat arguably the best one fwiw); he is the best QB in the league, even better than Wilson and far better than Garoppolo, Goff, or Murray (though the latter is a junior Russell Wilson in the making). The better of the two QB generally carries the day in the Super Bowl, which is why the AFC has won the majority of SB's of late.

    Like spurraider alluded to, it took an all-time vintage clutch underdog performance from Nick Foles to out-duel the GOAT Tom Brady for the NFC to win even one super bowl since 2013-14.

    I do agree that the NFC West is, head-and-shoulders, the best division in the NFL. The Seahawks and 49ers are Super Bowl contenders, Arizona is my break-out team of the year, and the Rams are worse but still have some good pieces in place to compete.
    The NFC South has a chance to be second best if the Falcons return to old form; otherwise, Dan Quinn finally gets the guillotine (overdue honestly).
    The AFC North is a solid candidate for third, pending Big Rape's return to old form (not super likely), the Browns finally not sucking and Joe Burrow's speed of rise to prominence.
    The NFC North is a solid candidate for fourth, so long as the Packers' lucky record from last year wasn't a fluke, the Bears return to 2018 form and the Vikings don't implode with the loss of Diggs and a few guys on defense.
    The AFC South is a candidate for fifth, though the Texans will certainly regress without Hopkins, still a bad defense and terrible coach. Hopefully O'Bummer will finally get the axe.
    The NFC East is sixth IMO, with 2 teams (Cowboys and Eagles) with great talent but always seem to screw up (Cowboys) or get injured (Eagles) at the wrong time, and two teams that flat-out stink, though the Giants might improve slightly from the past couple years.
    The AFC West is seventh IMO, with the Broncos and Chargers stinking up the joint with no legitimate QBs, and who knows what will happen with the Raiders.
    The AFC East is dead last, and what a complete joke fest. I don't expect any team to finish with more than 8 wins. Seriously. Buffalo's 2019 was an all-time massive fluke. Trash Allen sucks. Tu'a is too green, the Jets are in turmoil and the Patriots are tanking. Just laughable.

  6. #31
    Enemy of the System Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    NFC has elite talent like Wilson, Rodgers


  7. #32
    coffee's for closers FrostKing's Avatar
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    If there are also no post-snap penalties called on the Chiefs in those neutral site games, then I agree they would win. Like I said the Super Bowl is essentially an exhibition to sell certain star players to the global audience.

  8. #33
    Believe. i'm_still_beta's Avatar
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    So, 2015 Peyton > 2015 Cam? Well, ok.

    Nick Foles Super Bowl MVP, 2015 Broncos and 2013 Seahawks shows that Qb play is important, but not that important. Defense usually prevails

  9. #34
    Enemy of the System Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    If there are also no post-snap penalties called on the Chiefs in those neutral site games, then I agree they would win. Like I said the Super Bowl is essentially an exhibition to sell certain star players to the global audience.
    Stop being butthurt. Holding happens on every play. When it's on the interior shoulder (i.e. closer to the center and not on the outside of the tackle) it's much more difficult for the referee to see, and thus gets called much less often.

    The real problem was your cornerback screwed up his cover 3 deep outside zone assignment and instead followed the outside WR to the center of the field instead of holding true to his zone and preventing the wide open corner route to Hill (the slot receiver). Blame your cornerback for not doing his job... don't blame the refs.

  10. #35
    Enemy of the System Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    So, 2015 Peyton > 2015 Cam? Well, ok.

    Nick Foles Super Bowl MVP, 2015 Broncos and 2013 Seahawks shows that Qb play is important, but not that important. Defense usually prevails
    Yes.

    Newton in 2015 was a big-n-husky version of today's Lamar Jackson (who is small-n-lightning-fast)... a bus driver who relied heavily on TEs and backs to do most of the work in the passing game as well as his legs and beefy upper body to break through tackles to get key first downs and touchdowns. But they were far worse than their 15-1 record that year. Defense got loads of sacks in the regular season which helped out as well. But Newton's gimmicky offense was exposed badly by Denver while Peyton was very solid even in a bus driver role.

    In 2013, you could argue the QBs were fairly even, though Manning had a record season which still stands on top today. But the defenses weren't even close to being even with Von Miller out injured and DeMarcus Ware still on the Cowboys. And the Denver o-line (beginning with the very first snap) and special teams completely the bed in that game, even though both units had been top-10 in the 2013 regular season for Denver. It was a massacre. With even or close-to-even QBs, anything can happen. But when it's a colossal mismatch like Mahomes vs. Garoppolo or Brady vs. Goff, the better QB always wins. Even Flacco was better than gimmicky Kaepernick as a pure passer.

  11. #36
    Believe. i'm_still_beta's Avatar
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    Yes.

    Newton in 2015 was a big-n-husky version of today's Lamar Jackson (who is small-n-lightning-fast)... a bus driver who relied heavily on TEs and backs to do most of the work in the passing game as well as his legs and beefy upper body to break through tackles to get key first downs and touchdowns. But they were far worse than their 15-1 record that year. Defense got loads of sacks in the regular season which helped out as well. But Newton's gimmicky offense was exposed badly by Denver while Peyton was very solid even in a bus driver role.

    In 2013, you could argue the QBs were fairly even, though Manning had a record season which still stands on top today. But the defenses weren't even close to being even with Von Miller out injured and DeMarcus Ware still on the Cowboys. And the Denver o-line (beginning with the very first snap) and special teams completely the bed in that game, even though both units had been top-10 in the 2013 regular season for Denver. It was a massacre. With even or close-to-even QBs, anything can happen. But when it's a colossal mismatch like Mahomes vs. Garoppolo or Brady vs. Goff, the better QB always wins. Even Flacco was better than gimmicky Kaepernick as a pure passer.
    I disagree with you. Was Patriots offense gimmicky? Remember what Broncos did to Rodgers that year? They were all-time defensive team

  12. #37
    Believe. i'm_still_beta's Avatar
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    Maybe I'm wrong and no way I hate or dislike Chiefs (I wanted Chiefs and Mahomes to win last Super Bowl) but I think 49ers were robbed. Their defense was outplaying Chiefs offense comfortably

    It was blatant holding on Jet Chip Wasp play, Garapolo was hit helmet to helmet and late (on 3rd downs). If I was Frost, I'd be pissed too. It's obvious that Chiefs win is better for NFL. Mahomes is their Jordan it looks like.
    Last edited by i'm_still_beta; 07-31-2020 at 02:34 PM.

  13. #38
    Enemy of the System Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    I disagree with you. Was Patriots offense gimmicky? Remember what Broncos did to Rodgers that year? They were all-time defensive team
    They were the best defensive team in 2015 for sure, but that defense couldn't hold a candle to the 2013 Seattle defense. Even 2012 and large parts of 2014 Seattle. Or, the 2000 Ravens, 2002 Bucs, or even the 2001-2004 Patriots.

    Even still, Manning was very good -- solid -- in that postseason. Clearly the better option over Lossweiler. Manning struggled and had to come out mid-season because of his shoulder/injuries to his throwing motion, but looked sharp as a tack upon his return. Obviously the defense was the calling card of that team, like the 2013 Seahawks, but in both cases the QB was just fine.

    Not a 2000 Ravens or 2002 Bucs situation where a legendary defense carried a below average C-tier quarterback to ultimate glory. Even in 2012 Flacco, Rice, Boldin, Pitta etc and that offense was legitimately good. It's really case by case.

    2013 Seahawks were just a legendary all-time team (similar to the 2007 Patriots who couldn't quite win it all; maybe even better than the '07 Pats). Legendary, generational, ultra-deep defense, killer special teams, playmakers on offense, Beastmode (best RB in the game along with AP at that point in time) and a budding superstar QB in Wilson. Just a truly epic team, of course they couldn't keep them all together because the cap and injuries.

  14. #39
    Believe. i'm_still_beta's Avatar
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    They were the best defensive team in 2015 for sure, but that defense couldn't hold a candle to the 2013 Seattle defense. Even 2012 and large parts of 2014 Seattle. Or, the 2000 Ravens, 2002 Bucs, or even the 2001-2004 Patriots.

    Even still, Manning was very good -- solid -- in that postseason. Clearly the better option over Lossweiler. Manning struggled and had to come out mid-season because of his shoulder/injuries to his throwing motion, but looked sharp as a tack upon his return. Obviously the defense was the calling card of that team, like the 2013 Seahawks, but in both cases the QB was just fine.

    Not a 2000 Ravens or 2002 Bucs situation where a legendary defense carried a below average C-tier quarterback to ultimate glory. Even in 2012 Flacco, Rice, Boldin, Pitta etc and that offense was legitimately good. It's really case by case.

    2013 Seahawks were just a legendary all-time team (similar to the 2007 Patriots who couldn't quite win it all; maybe even better than the '07 Pats). Legendary, generational, ultra-deep defense, killer special teams, playmakers on offense, Beastmode (best RB in the game along with AP at that point in time) and a budding superstar QB in Wilson. Just a truly epic team, of course they couldn't keep them all together because the cap and injuries.
    2013 Seahawks defense > 2015 Broncos defense. But Broncos offense gave their defense trouble with constant turnovers and inability to extend drives. 2015 Broncos definitely all-time great defense but not the best.

    Broncos offense was one of the worst in the league. Peyton had 9 tds and 17 interceptions in RS. He had 2 tds and 3 turnovers, 75.4 passer rating, 5.9 Y/A in the playoffs. Peyton had bad game vs Steleers, good game vs Patriots (90.1 passer rating) amd horrible game vs Panthers. He was bad and was carried by defense. Carolina had one of the best defenses too, but Cam was one of the best players that season and deseved MVP. He played great in postseason before Broncos crushed him ... like they did it to Brady, Big Ben, Rodgers.

    How can anyone say with straight face that Peyton was better than Cam in 2015?

  15. #40
    4-25-20 Will Hunting's Avatar
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    How can anyone say with straight face that Peyton was better than Cam in 2015?
    Simple really, the person saying it was born with his umbilical cord wrapped around his neck.

  16. #41
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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  17. #42
    Damns (Given): 0 Blake's Avatar
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    NFC West is more loaded than the entire AFC. Then the Super Bowl is a separate en y treated as a showcase for global audience.

    Chiefs wouldn't survive the NFC playoffs but that's the point, they don't have to.
    Lol what are you talking about. The chiefs just beat the best team in the NFC in the playoffs

  18. #43
    Enemy of the System Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    How can anyone say with straight face that Peyton was better than Cam in 2015?
    I said playoffs, not regular season

    The defense completely carried Carolina over Seattle, and largely shut down a blazing hot Arizona offense as well

    Peyton wasn't good by any means in the 2015 regular season, but was a solid better-than-bus-driver in the playoffs. Outgunned both the Steelers (albeit not at quite full strength) and the mighty Brady.

    Newton was atrocious in the Super Bowl.

  19. #44
    4-25-20 Will Hunting's Avatar
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    Newton was atrocious in the Super Bowl.
    and Peyton wasn’t? He had 1 interception and 2 fumbles just like Newton did (despite having significantly less usage and largely having a game manager role where his most important job was to not turn the ball over).

    18 of the Broncos 24 points came off 1) a defensive touchdown, 2) a field goal where Denver started its drive inside the red zone after a long punt return, and 3) a touchdown and 2 point conversion after they started inside Carolina’s 5 yard line. Only 6 of its points were off drives that didn’t start in Carolina’s red zone - you’re simply revising history by claiming Peyton’s 2015 playoff run involved him outgunning anybody.

  20. #45
    Believe. i'm_still_beta's Avatar
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    I said playoffs, not regular season

    The defense completely carried Carolina over Seattle, and largely shut down a blazing hot Arizona offense as well

    Peyton wasn't good by any means in the 2015 regular season, but was a solid better-than-bus-driver in the playoffs. Outgunned both the Steelers (albeit not at quite full strength) and the mighty Brady.

    Newton was atrocious in the Super Bowl.
    Payton had only one good game against Patriots. He was mediocre against Steelers (21-37 222, 0 TDs, 0 turnovers, 74.4 passer rating, 6 Y/A; yeah, Payton showed them) and was sad to watch against Panthers.
    Cam had ok game against Seahawks, pretty good game against Cardinals and bad against Broncos (missed some throws, didn't jump on the fumble). Still, that Broncos D completely outplayed Steelers, Patriots in the postseason and Packers in RS. If Broncos had even a decent QB that season, their defense could be even better. They would have more time to rest during drives and better field position.

  21. #46
    4-25-20 Will Hunting's Avatar
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    Payton had only one good game against Patriots. He was mediocre against Steelers (21-37 222, 0 TDs, 0 turnovers, 74.4 passer rating, 6 Y/A; yeah, Payton showed them) and was sad to watch against Panthers.
    Cam had ok game against Seahawks, pretty good game against Cardinals and bad against Broncos (missed some throws, didn't jump on the fumble). Still, that Broncos D completely outplayed Steelers, Patriots in the postseason and Packers in RS. If Broncos had even a decent QB that season, their defense could be even better. They would have more time to rest during drives and better field position.
    I don’t even think he played that well against New England. The touchdown New England scored off his re ed backwards pass was the only thing that kept the game close in the 1st half. He threw for less than 200 total yards - outside of the first drive of the game Denver’s offense was unproductive. That game should have never come down to an extra point with how banged up New England was.

  22. #47
    Enemy of the System Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    Newton in 2018-present just isn't good. At all. And half the Patriots defense quit on the season already. Sad times.

  23. #48
    Veteran SpursforSix's Avatar
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    Newton in 2018-present just isn't good. At all. And half the Patriots defense quit on the season already. Sad times.
    Except he had his highest completion for his career in 2018.

  24. #49
    4-25-20 Will Hunting's Avatar
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    Newton in 2018-present just isn't good. At all. And half the Patriots defense quit on the season already. Sad times.
    I’m hoping more of them sit the season out. They’re going to be awful this year, might as well tank for Trevor.

  25. #50
    Enemy of the System Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    Except he had his highest completion for his career in 2018.
    Did you actually watch the games? His throwing arm was a limp biscuit after like week 8. It was sad watching him motion as if he was unleashing a 50 yard bomb only to throw a 4 yard dump off to the best receiving back in football. That's why completion % is a bogus stat.

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