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  1. #1
    Veteran offset formation's Avatar
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    I thought these young guys would show some better ability to stay in front of their opponents than Bryn, Beli, DeMar, and to a lesser extent Rudy and Patty do, but jesus...

    I knew not having Aldridge back there was going to hurt us. His defensive presence and experience is overlooked and underappreciated. But man, our defense is simply atrocious. Even more so than with the vets. KJ has shown some nice things but hes not consistent, nor are White and Murray.

    Long story short, I'm quite deflated about the future. Most of these guys have been in the system for a couple or three years. Pop and the Spurs system is known for their defensive systems and their player development, especially on the defensive side, first and foremost. So it all adds up to make me feel like the future is simply not bright on D. We don't have a problem scoring it doesn't appear, but we will be outscored more often than not.

    Makes you really appreciate what the Big 3 brought. And even what kind of presence Aldridge has had back there for the last 6 years. And he's getting old.

    In other words, I think we be ed.
    Last edited by offset formation; 07-26-2020 at 10:23 PM.

  2. #2
    Veteran Degoat's Avatar
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    I don’t blame the young guys, the problem is we don’t have much size right now. We’re playing just about everybody 1 spot above their position.

  3. #3
    Veteran offset formation's Avatar
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    109 to Bucks team that only played Giannis like 21 min in a 40 MINUTE game.

    125 or whatever to a Brooklyn Nets team without DeAndre Jordan, Spencer Dinwiddy, Kyrie Irving. And of course they won have hit 175 with Durant in there too.

    What the actual is wrong with the D?

  4. #4
    what uganda do about it? Joseph Kony's Avatar
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    -spurs have exactly 0 3&D wing players / no real SF
    -DeRozan / Forbes
    -LMA / Lyes out
    -terrible frontcourt defense outside of Poeltl

    D has been bad all year though, nothing really new here just made worse without the Spurs starting frontcourt

  5. #5
    Veteran offset formation's Avatar
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    I don’t blame the young guys, the problem is we don’t have much size right now. We’re playing just about everybody 1 spot above their position.
    On the frontcourt, yes. But our guards are average size.

    And for the longest time we ed about the inability of the gaurds to just stay in front of of their opponent.

    I don't buy the undersized argument.

  6. #6
    Veteran Sugus's Avatar
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    We were absolutely undersized playing against the Bucks. But our defense is trash, I agree - though I do wonder how much blame do the players themselves have. The Spurs teams of past seasons had Messina and Udoka to help coordinate defensive and offensive schemes; our defense nowadays looks disarrayed. I think having started two of the worst defensive players in the league - DeRozan and Forbes - together all season long is a recipe for failure, no matter who you surround them with, but then again it's not about finding a scapegoat either.

    I've seen the young players play good individual D multiple times through the season. Whether that can translate to a good team defense is yet to be seen, but I truly think any team with the Spurs roster's deficiencies will never be able to be a good judging parameter. Toss the corpse of Rudy Gay off the back truck, let Forbes walk, trade DeMar for a positive defender even if he isn't an offensive talent, get a real 4 and get the young guards 20-25mpg through the season, playing together. Then we can see how much chemistry and cohesiveness they have. Right now, and all through the season, Pop's lackluster coaching job at every level of game planning, scheming, rotations, and in-game management has hindered the team. I truly believe a coach like Becky could do wonders for this team - the talent is there, we saw them almost get to the second round just a season ago. There wasn't individual dropping off that justifies the worsening of this season's Spurs, but these external factors help explain it somewhat.

    I also think we have the length and quickness in our guards to play a modern, switching scheme defensively. We just need bigs who both space the floor and aren't really old vets, so they can avoid being exposed and burned. Luka could be like that some day, but he's a long ways away, so I'd be looking in the trade market if I were the Spurs, or maybe looking at drafting Achiuwa in the draft. Jakob is just fine and should be resigned at all costs, he has a great developing chemistry with White and now Lonnie.

  7. #7
    Take the fcking keys away baseline bum's Avatar
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    I thought these young guys would show some better ability to stay in front of their opponents than Bryn, Beli, DeMar, and to a lesser extent Rudy and Patty do, but jesus...

    I knew not having Aldridge back there was going to hurt us. His defensive presence and experience is overlooked and underappreciated. But man, our defense is simply atrocious. Even more so than with the vets. KG has shown some nice things but hes not consistent, nor are White and Murray.

    Long story short, I'm quite deflated about the future. Most of these guys have been in the system for a couple or three years. Pop and the Spurs system is known for their defensive systems and their player development, especially on the defensive side, first and foremost. So it all adds up to make me feel like the future is simply not bright on D. We don't have a problem scoring it doesn't appear, but we will be outscored more often than not.

    Makes you really appreciate what the Big 3 brought. And even what kind of presence Aldridge has had back there for the last 6 years. And he's getting old.

    In other words, I think we be ed.
    Bend over, I'll give you The D

  8. #8
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    The historical defensive success of the Duncan era was never about "Pop and the Spurs system"' and any future success won't be about whoever the coach is either. Now more than ever, in a genized league, it's about personnel.

    That "culture/system" nonsense was just the narrative the ignorant media fed the masses because they didn't have a cliche American superstar to hype/sell.

    They obviously need big wings in the worst way, but the offense is far more concerning going forward. I doubt all of the youth will remain intact for long, but most either already excel defensively or have the tools to at least not be liabilities. Offensively, there's no lead play maker and possibly scorer.

  9. #9
    Veteran offset formation's Avatar
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    Bend over, I'll give you The D
    Spurs do it nightly. I'll be good for the next 2weeks. I'll look you up after then?

  10. #10
    Veteran offset formation's Avatar
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    We were absolutely undersized playing against the Bucks. But our defense is trash, I agree - though I do wonder how much blame do the players themselves have. The Spurs teams of past seasons had Messina and Udoka to help coordinate defensive and offensive schemes; our defense nowadays looks disarrayed. I think having started two of the worst defensive players in the league - DeRozan and Forbes - together all season long is a recipe for failure, no matter who you surround them with, but then again it's not about finding a scapegoat either.

    I've seen the young players play good individual D multiple times through the season. Whether that can translate to a good team defense is yet to be seen, but I truly think any team with the Spurs roster's deficiencies will never be able to be a good judging parameter. Toss the corpse of Rudy Gay off the back truck, let Forbes walk, trade DeMar for a positive defender even if he isn't an offensive talent, get a real 4 and get the young guards 20-25mpg through the season, playing together. Then we can see how much chemistry and cohesiveness they have. Right now, and all through the season, Pop's lackluster coaching job at every level of game planning, scheming, rotations, and in-game management has hindered the team. I truly believe a coach like Becky could do wonders for this team - the talent is there, we saw them almost get to the second round just a season ago. There wasn't individual dropping off that justifies the worsening of this season's Spurs, but these external factors help explain it somewhat.

    I also think we have the length and quickness in our guards to play a modern, switching scheme defensively. We just need bigs who both space the floor and aren't really old vets, so they can avoid being exposed and burned. Luka could be like that some day, but he's a long ways away, so I'd be looking in the trade market if I were the Spurs, or maybe looking at drafting Achiuwa in the draft. Jakob is just fine and should be resigned at all costs, he has a great developing chemistry with White and now Lonnie.
    I agree with a bunch of this but I think we are giving too much credit to lack of experience and cohesion.

    DWhite and Murray have been in the system 3+ years. Lonnie 2. Jakob 2. Metu 2. Drew 3, or 4. Bryn, well 100 yrs wouldn't overcome his shortcomings.

    At some point, it's about staying in front of your man, knowing where the to be and then doing those things.

    I just see brain after defensive inability after poor rotation after lack of quickness repeated time and time again.

    Now I grant you that trust is a big part of this but man all you hear from the young guys is, "let us show you what we can do..."

    Well, what I see, after an admittedly small sample, is not much to get excited about. Matter of fact, it's disconcerting if you're a fan hoping the undeniable downturn is short-lived and not steep.

  11. #11
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    This offseason will be pivotal.

  12. #12
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    I never thought Derrick would finally be aggressive on offense but he's bringing it now.

    I never thought Lonnie's basketball IQ would improve on offense, but it has.

    It's bound to happen for defense, too.

  13. #13
    Veteran offset formation's Avatar
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    The historical defensive success of the Duncan era was never about "Pop and the Spurs system"' and any future success won't be about whoever the coach is either. Now more than ever, in a genized league, it's about personnel.

    That "culture/system" nonsense was just the narrative the ignorant media fed the masses because they didn't have a cliche American superstar to hype/sell.

    They obviously need big wings in the worst way, but the offense is far more concerning going forward. I doubt all of the youth will remain intact for long, but most either already excel defensively or have the tools to at least not be liabilities. Offensively, there's no lead play maker and possibly scorer.
    You're more concerned abt the offense? We aren't losing because we aren't scoring enough.

    Now granted, we aren't efficient behind the 3pt line but the departure of DeMar alone being replaced with a more efficient 3pt shooter changes that with just one player swap. There are always vets on the open market to fill those kinds of voids too to bolster the team 3pt shooting.

    And our offense ought to be behind our defense but it's not. We were in the top half of the league in offensive efficiency.

    We have a 20 year old prototypical PF that should be able to score inside and outside for yrs to come as well as a SG (PG) in Walker and White that's showing an early ability to put up points.

    And we have our highest draft pick in 21 years coming up this year. That should net us another young scorer because college players in the lottery tend to be better scorers than defenders.

    I'm not worried about the offense much at all.

    In fact the last several years have shown the trend line of increasing offensive efficiency compared to a decreasing defensive efficiency.

  14. #14
    Veteran offset formation's Avatar
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    I never thought Derrick would finally be aggressive on offense but he's bringing it now.

    I never thought Lonnie's basketball IQ would improve on offense, but it has.

    It's bound to happen for defense, too.
    That's all I'm left with -- hope. Because in practice, there hasn't been too much to hang our hat on.

  15. #15
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    Unfortunately we were set back 3 years after losing 2 of our best 3/D guys.

    We need more true SFs (strong enough to guard PFs but quick enough to stay with guards) - as I've said before the most vital position in today's NBA.

    Dejounte, White, Walker are great 1/2 depth but not equipped enough to be a true SF.

    Keldon has the tools but we still need more depth.

  16. #16
    Emperor Duncan>>>>>King James tim_duncan_fan's Avatar
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    And Keldon BARELY has the tools. He's 2-guard size.

  17. #17
    Veteran ace3g's Avatar
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    And Keldon BARELY has the tools. He's 2-guard size.
    This is true, I do prefer my SFs to be 6'7-6'8.

  18. #18
    Emperor Duncan>>>>>King James tim_duncan_fan's Avatar
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    This is true, I do prefer my SFs to be 6'7-6'8.
    We have to get the front office out of love with small ball. This has been going on for too long.

    No team needs 6 players under 6'7.

  19. #19
    Veteran KobesAchilles's Avatar
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    We have a bunch of young guys. I knew our D was gonna be . We gotta go back to the old Spurs philosophy. Our best defense is taking more shots than the other guys. Fast break and quick shots. We don’t have the horses for slow half court offense. We have young wild colts who don’t know the game but are athletic, quick, and can push the pace

  20. #20
    Veteran KobesAchilles's Avatar
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    We have a bunch of young guys. I knew our D was gonna be . We gotta go back to the old Spurs philosophy. Our best defense is taking more shots than the other guys. Fast break and quick shots. We don’t have the horses for slow half court offense. We have young wild colts who don’t know the game but are athletic, quick, and can push the pace

  21. #21
    Believe.
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    Dont forget Spurs lost two projected true SFs in Marcus Morris and Carroll.

  22. #22
    #21 timtonymanu's Avatar
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    So pretty much this team is just as bad as they were before covid19. What a crazy revelation.

    It sucks that covid made us extend seeing this trash team for a couple more weeks instead of just dumping all these useless players like a regular offseason would have done. Everyone wants Rudy gone but the front office was stupid enough to pay him another 14 million for next season.

  23. #23
    OH YOU LIKE IT!!! slick'81's Avatar
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    So pretty much this team is just as bad as they were before covid19. What a crazy revelation.

    It sucks that covid made us extend seeing this trash team for a couple more weeks instead of just dumping all these useless players like a regular offseason would have done. Everyone wants Rudy gone but the front office was stupid enough to pay him another 14 million for next season.

    Its like were realizng how much the spurs actually suck all over again

  24. #24
    R.C. Drunkford TimDunkem's Avatar
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    And Keldon BARELY has the tools. He's 2-guard size.
    The Slurpers have convinced themselves that playing small means being small at every position because that's seemingly what PATFO thinks is going to work. We can't play big or small because multiple players with fatal flaws are playing positions that put them in position to fail. Examples include:

    DJ should be playing PG but is best at SG because he has no PG instincts.

    DDR playing SF because we have no true SF but he can't defend the position at the level needed to contend.

    Rudy being a 4 at this point in his career but playing center because our options behind LMA in a best case scenario is no skill Yakob or Trey ing Lyles.

    KJ not being big enough to play the 3 full time.

    Forbes playing at all. He doesn't have the skill to ever play PG or the size and athleticism to defend any position.

    Patty Mills when he plays the 2. Remember when Pop refused to adjust when he would switch on to KD?

    DW not being athletic enough to defend the best 1s or big enough to handle the best 2s. He's an average role player at best. Reminds me of Delonte West without the crazy.

    This team doesn't know how to zig or zag.

  25. #25
    Veteran offset formation's Avatar
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    So pretty much this team is just as bad as they were before covid19. What a crazy revelation.
    Well clearly they were going to suck without their best player and defensive anchor on the floor. But did you expect to see our supposedly hungry young guys get beat so routinely, and so consistently to give up 124 pts to a group of scab Nets? Or 109 in **40 ing minutes** to the Bucks?

    Specifically, I had a bit of hope coming into these scrimmages to see a bit of improvement of what we saw all season with these new young kids. I heard Lonnie, and Murray specifically talking about their defensive effort and attention to defense being the most notable thing in these restart practices. I heard Rudy talking about it. Patty. Coach Becky.

    And you know what we saw in reality? That was the reason for my post. Of course the D sucked. I just expected a hint of improvement, not a deterioration of it.

    I advise you to go listen to their restart practice interviews, and how they were pimping their defense and attention to it as their primary focus in these scrimmages and upcoming games.

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