Spurs v Pacers | NBA Restart Scrimmage #3 - 7/28/2020 - ⏰ 3pm CT 📺 @FOXSportsSW, @NBATV

[KobesAchilles]

Dejounte can't play in a half court system. He doesn't have the handles to consistently get into the paint. The only time he's able to do so is when he has a lot of open floor to do so. Also 4 of his "assists" were passes to his teammates that caught the ball at the 3 point line, took 3-4 dribbles, and then made their shot

Pop needs to either run and gun this team or trade DJ. He should trade him anyways if the dude is going to continue to play/start as a PG. He has no 3ball either so we can't even play him as a SG

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Dejounte can't play in a half court system. He doesn't have the handles to consistently get into the paint. The only time he's able to do so is when he has a lot of open floor to do so. Also 4 of his "assists" were passes to his teammates that caught the ball at the 3 point line, took 3-4 dribbles, and then made their shot

Pop needs to either run and gun this team or trade DJ. He should trade him anyways if the dude is going to continue to play/start as a PG. He has no 3ball either so we can't even play him as a SG

We absolutely jumped the gun giving him that contract. But our front office has been woeful for years now.

[Dejounte]

We absolutely jumped the gun giving him that contract. But our front office has been woeful for years now.

Its not a terrible contract for someone who will average 11 ppg, 6rpg, 4 apg at his worst.

A comparable contract is Eric Bledsoe who earns roughly the same and hes averaging 16 ppg, 5rpg, 5 apg.

[Dejounte]

Another comparable contract... Eric Gordon. Averaging 15 ppg, 2rpg, 2apg

[KobesAchilles]

Its not a terrible contract for someone who will average 11 ppg, 6rpg, 4 apg at his worst.

A comparable contract is Eric Bledsoe who earns roughly the same and hes averaging 16 ppg, 5rpg, 5 apg.

Except Eric Gordon can actually hit a 3 at a high clip. DJ lack of jumper (along with DDR) is the reason why Pop starts Forbes. Eric Gordon would improve the Spurs so much.

[daslicer]

Its not a terrible contract for someone who will average 11 ppg, 6rpg, 4 apg at his worst.

A comparable contract is Eric Bledsoe who earns roughly the same and hes averaging 16 ppg, 5rpg, 5 apg.

In this era the market for a guy who scores around 11 points a game tends to be around 10-15 mil. So Dejounte pretty much got paid what the market dictated. In today's market he's not overpaid.

[Dejounte]

Except Eric Gordon can actually hit a 3 at a high clip. DJ lack of jumper (along with DDR) is the reason why Pop starts Forbes. Eric Gordon would improve the Spurs so much.

Yes, great for Eric Gordon and great for what kind of fit he would be for this team. I'm merely saying his contract isn't terrible and that it's basically the same pay as players with stats comparable to his (and that's at Dejounte's WORST). He's not overpaid.

[Trainwreck2100]

WOW spurs don't pay their on air talent, dude is doing it from his living room with a crap webcam and the millionaire can't even build out a home studio in his mansion to do the Post/Pre game show. WOW, FSSW or Spurs Sports and Entertainment cut off couple of nickles to get these guys decent lighting sound and Cams. If you're average twitch streamer can do it so should SSE. Who eve is the AV/Social Media guy is STEALING from the spurs. Guy in Living room on WIFI and a guy in his car on 4g......

FSSW is now owned by Sinclair Media, besides being pieces of , they're also cheap pieces of

[KobesAchilles]

Yes, great for Eric Gordon and great for what kind of fit he would be for this team. I'm merely saying his contract isn't terrible and that it's basically the same pay as players with stats comparable to his (and that's at Dejounte's WORST). He's not overpaid.

Except he is overpaid. The Spurs took a gamble last offseason and they lost (again). They expected DJ to take the next step. He isn't capable of taking that step. Nobody this year would offer DJ a 4 year $64 miilion contract. Nothing about his play this year shows that he is worth that. There's excuses to be made by his player fans and followers on IG, but the Spurs could've signed him much cheaper had they waited a year. Something like 4 year $44-48 million

[Dejounte]

Except he is overpaid. The Spurs took a gamble last offseason and they lost (again). They expected DJ to take the next step. He isn't capable of taking that step. Nobody this year would offer DJ a 4 year $64 miilion contract. Nothing about his play this year shows that he is worth that. There's excuses to be made by his player fans and followers on IG, but the Spurs could've signed him much cheaper had they waited a year. Something like 4 year $44-48 million

Sigh...
Saying he isnt capable of taking the next step is an opinion, not a fact.

Saying that nobody this year would offer the same contract is an opinion, not a fact.

Saying that his contract is comparable to numerous other players with the same stats is a fact, not an opinion. When there are other players with the same contract, it does not mean DJ and all the other players are overpaid.... It means the opposite. It means what daslicer said earlier, he's being paid market value.

Look man, I know youve been disappointed with the Spurs for their failures for the past few years.... Theres no reason to hunt down any post that does NOT say anything negative about one single thing they have done and try to twist into something bad they did. This is clouding your judgment and your logic. Im simply stating a fact.

Can you imagine what kind of hole this forum would be if everyone had the same mindset as you? If everyone agreed about the same thing? And when one states a fact, he gets blasted for it? Like come on, man...

[TimDunkem]

KJ, White, and LW4 are all already better than DJ tbh

[KobesAchilles]

Sigh...
Saying he isnt capable of taking the next step is an opinion, not a fact.

Saying that nobody this year would offer the same contract is an opinion, not a fact.

Saying that his contract is comparable to numerous other players with the same stats is a fact, not an opinion. When there are other players with the same contract, it does not mean DJ and all the other players are overpaid.... It means the opposite. It means what daslicer said earlier, he's being paid market value.

Look man, I know youve been disappointed with the Spurs for their failures for the past few years.... Theres no reason to hunt down any post that does NOT say anything negative about one single thing they have done and try to twist into something bad they did. This is clouding your judgment and your logic. Im simply stating a fact.

Can you imagine what kind of hole this forum would be if everyone had the same mindset as you? If everyone agreed about the same thing? And when one states a fact, he gets blasted for it? Like come on, man...

I mean your comp was about someone averaging 5 points more a game and shooting at a much better clip and somehow averaging more assists than DJ while playing with ball hogs like Westbrook and Harden. **edit** I just saw Gordons ty stats for the year. Dude had a horrific injury plagued year. But his previous one was better and I think that's what you were referencing.

The cap is going down this year.That's a "fact" as you would say. Teams don't have as much money to spend this offseason. Another fact. Dejounte has shown zero area of improvement except for elbow jumpers. That's also a fact. His dribbling hasn't gotten to an NBA starting PG level. Another fact. He can't space the floor. Another fact. His defense slipped this year because he was gambling way too much. Another fact. He has shown no ability to run a half court offense. Another fact. Name the team the Spurs would be competing against to sign Murray. The market was at an all time high last season, another fact. It will be much lower this offseason and had the Spurs waited, they would've gotten him on a cheaper contract. Not that hard a concept to understand brah

[TimDunkem]

I mean your comp was about someone averaging 5 points more a game and shooting at a much better clip and somehow averaging more assists than DJ while playing with ball hogs like Westbrook and Harden. **edit** I just saw Gordons ty stats for the year. Dude had a horrific injury plagued year. But his previous one was better and I think that's what you were referencing.

The cap is going down this year.That's a "fact" as you would say. Teams don't have as much money to spend this offseason. Another fact. Dejounte has shown zero area of improvement except for elbow jumpers. That's also a fact. His dribbling hasn't gotten to an NBA starting PG level. Another fact. He can't space the floor. Another fact. His defense slipped this year because he was gambling way too much. Another fact. He has shown no ability to run a half court offense. Another fact. Name the team the Spurs would be competing against to sign Murray. The market was at an all time high last season, another fact. It will be much lower this offseason and had the Spurs waited, they would've gotten him on a cheaper contract. Not that hard a concept to understand brah

Am I wrong in saying KJ, White, LW4 are all better (or at least impact winning more) than DJ right now? Even if you take away the ACL year he still is on the same timeline as White and he still stinks.

[Chinook]

Am I wrong in saying KJ, White, LW4 are all better (or at least impact winning more) than DJ right now? Even if you take away the ACL year he still is on the same timeline as White and he still stinks.

I don't think that's fair. You're only comparing them at their best to Murray's average. There were a number of games where Murray played like a star where the others were passive. Well, Johnson wasn't passive, but he was racking a streak of missed threes in Austin. Murray still has good potential, and I could certainly see him succeeding on another franchise as a guard version of Draymond.

What I think is fair is to say that White, Walker and Johnson fit well together and adding to that trio is the team's best chance at making their roster work in the near future. They also fit well enough with Aldridge, so the Spurs could easily make the playoffs again next year if they cut the fat from the roster and get lucky enough to draft a PF that Pop will actually play.

Murray's game doesn't match his ego or desired role, but his game is still there. He's not a huge negative like Metu. But it's possible that it can't work in SA because DJM was anointed the face of the franchise really early and can go from that to bench player without it causing major upheaval. But like under LeBron or with Curry, I think he'd be comfortable enough stepping down into the role his skill-set is actually suited for.

[KobesAchilles]

Am I wrong in saying KJ, White, LW4 are all better (or at least impact winning more) than DJ right now? Even if you take away the ACL year he still is on the same timeline as White and he still stinks.

No you're not wrong. Look I'm all for giving guys time and not to hate on the youth movement. I want the young guys to succeed because I'm a fan of the team. I'm the one person who wasn't mad at Kawhi for leaving and I wasn't mad about the Spurs trading for Demar. It was a ty scenario that caught us completely off guard. BUT our responses after Kawhi left have been a show. We are acting more like the Timberwolves instead of the Spurs. We lost ALOT of talent and people here don't seem to recognize that. We lost all of our assistant coaches (including the guy who worked exclusively with Kawhi to help him improve). We lost our GM of choice in Marks and replaced him with a guy who has no real experience and really not that much time to mold him. We lost Pop once his wife died. He's there but he isn't at the same time. And Peter Holt gave the team to his wife who gave it to their spoiled snot nosed kids with no experience of running a damn basketball franchise.

We are at a critical point in our franchise. We need to access our talent. See what we have and don't have. And this whole year was a waste of time in regarding the youth. Dejounte isn't being used properly. He's being asked to be the leader of the defense and constantly cover for Forbes. He's being asked to play slow ball for Gay, DDR, and LMA. We aren't running him enough and he isn't playing any minutes with the young guys who we assume are our future. These are good excuse for him. But from what I see, he isn't needed on the team. He can't shoot, dribble, or create. He could get better, but us paying him $16 million a year on the hope that he does get better seems pretty stupid.

I mean guaranteeing LMA's contract. Re-signing Rudy Gay. Getting rid of Bertans instead of Forbes. Playing Forbes at all nevermind starting him. The Carroll situation. Not knowing who the lead assistant coach is on your own damn team. These are things usually done by ty front offices who have zero experience in winning rather than PATFO. It's time to trim the fat and cut the dead weight. Trade Demar and Murray. Draft anything other than a SG. Don't play Gay. Don't re-sign Marco or Bryn. Force Pop out. Sign actual assistant coaches who know what the they are doing. Redesign the entire offense to fit the youth rather than the old. We aren't going to win many games doing this but living in 11th pick territory for the next couple of years would be the worst thing the Spurs could do imo

[SpurSpike]

I mean your comp was about someone averaging 5 points more a game and shooting at a much better clip and somehow averaging more assists than DJ while playing with ball hogs like Westbrook and Harden. **edit** I just saw Gordons ty stats for the year. Dude had a horrific injury plagued year. But his previous one was better and I think that's what you were referencing.

The cap is going down this year.That's a "fact" as you would say. Teams don't have as much money to spend this offseason. Another fact. Dejounte has shown zero area of improvement except for elbow jumpers. That's also a fact. His dribbling hasn't gotten to an NBA starting PG level. Another fact. He can't space the floor. Another fact. His defense slipped this year because he was gambling way too much. Another fact. He has shown no ability to run a half court offense. Another fact. Name the team the Spurs would be competing against to sign Murray. The market was at an all time high last season, another fact. It will be much lower this offseason and had the Spurs waited, they would've gotten him on a cheaper contract. Not that hard a concept to understand brah

Why are people saying DJM cant shoot 3's? He is above league average and his shot has improved a lot. He may have a slow shot when it comes to the 3 ball but i think he can develop that, you gotta start somewhere and he has shown he has the drive to get better.

Also he got his contract before COVID-19 hit, no one knew the cap was going to shrink at that time. It was smart to lock him down even if he is slightly overpaid. You can always use him in a trade, he has value being young and has started to gain recognition in the league as a defensive point guard.

[KobesAchilles]

Why are people saying DJM cant shoot 3's? He is above league average and his shot has improved a lot. He may have a slow shot when it comes to the 3 ball but i think he can develop that, you gotta start somewhere and he has shown he has the drive to get better.

Also he got his contract before COVID-19 hit, no one knew the cap was going to shrink at that time. It was smart to lock him down even if he is slightly overpaid. You can always use him in a trade, he has value being young and has started to gain recognition in the league as a defensive point guard.

He was coming off a serious injury. The Spurs bet that he would have a strong comeback year and in turn earn a huge payday from them later down the road, so they decided to "get-ahead" and offer him a contract. The thing is that he didn't have a huge bounce back year so they lost the gamble and could've signed him cheaper this year.

Also he averages .6 made threes a game. I think we played 63 games and .6 of 63 is something like 35 made threes for the whole season. It doesn't really matter what the heck his percentage is when he only made 35 all year. Brooke Lopez has made more 3s for example.

[TimDunkem]

I don't think that's fair. You're only comparing them at their best to Murray's average. There were a number of games where Murray played like a star where the others were passive. Well, Johnson wasn't passive, but he was racking a streak of missed threes in Austin. Murray still has good potential, and I could certainly see him succeeding on another franchise as a guard version of Draymond.

What I think is fair is to say that White, Walker and Johnson fit well together and adding to that trio is the team's best chance at making their roster work in the near future. They also fit well enough with Aldridge, so the Spurs could easily make the playoffs again next year if they cut the fat from the roster and get lucky enough to draft a PF that Pop will actually play.

Murray's game doesn't match his ego or desired role, but his game is still there. He's not a huge negative like Metu. But it's possible that it can't work in SA because DJM was anointed the face of the franchise really early and can go from that to bench player without it causing major upheaval. But like under LeBron or with Curry, I think he'd be comfortable enough stepping down into the role his skill-set is actually suited for.

Again, I think we end up at the same place here. In an ideal world, Murray would fit seamlessly. The reality isn't looking that way though. He's the odd man out. At least at the moment.

[SAGirl]

I think eventually (in a future that is not immediate, maybe not until the offseason after this one) they will have to decide who among White/Murray to keep. I think White is right now the better player, but there's really a tiny sample size of all 4 youngins together and frankly I prefer to trim the fat before talking about deciding between one of White and Murray. For once I am excited to see what White/Murray/Walker/Johnson can do for the team. I'd like to see them in different lineups and combinations next season and get a bigger sample to judge, maybe even with a more complimentary supporting cast? One can hope. Hopefully as Chinook says, the Spurs draft a forward/big that Pop will actually play or they trade for one.

Also agree with KobesAchilles that much of this season was wasted playing too much Bryn and veterans that have no future with the team and that the team tried to trade. (Does Bryn have a future with the team? Say it isn't so.)

For now, I am enjoying watching the young Spurs and I look forward to how they can develop as a team next season.

I'll agree with the general consensus though, that in a small sample size, Murray has looked like the least offensively talented of them all. He's athletic, has size and good defensive/rebounding stats, but offensively I think the other 3 have more potential with the ball, whether that be scoring for themselves or creating for others than Murray has shown. I can't say where this is heading, maybe Murray ends up getting traded for someone the team needs. That is fine. He needs to play well and succeed to be the asset that nets you whoever that is. Because right now, maybe White is looking like that asset instead.

As for why I think eventually they will need to make up their minds, its basically based on the assumption that Walker and Johnson also develop to warrant offensive possessions and bigger roles, etc. Their future looks really bright right now, maybe being a prisoner of the moment but that's okay for fans, and frankly it's been a while since I was that, maybe not since Murray was drafted (and I do see the irony there. I was really high on him).

Bottom line, keep Murray and continue to develop the youth, but have an eye out for potential trades to fill out holes in the team.

[Larry O]

When Murray was drafted & came to the team, I remember that there was all of this hype about him (and especially him hpyping his own self, SMH), and he had shown some flashes of possibilities. Of coarse, he had to stay in TP9's shadow for a while & then the ACL tear happened. He's definitely a good defender, although, I think White may be better by means that he is more aggressive; seems to have developed a defensive knack I his own right & he sacrifices his body. White also seems to be the better PG as well. Murray has handles issues, especially when he gets into the crowded paint with the ball. His shooting, including the 3-ball, is streaky. Could his inconsistencies be a mental thing with his post ACL injury, and that has also cause him to loose time with his development? Or perhaps DJ should be a SG instead of a PG? But as the NBA seems to be going "positionless," pairing White with Murray at the same time, I believe will work well for the team, as they build chemistry. DJ, of coarse, still needs to continue to work on his shooting, dribbling & playmaking. He's even said that he was also going to take the reigns as the team's key leader, on the floor & off. Hmmm... I'm not sure who is the clear player leader of this team right now. Is it DJ, LMA, Mills, DeRozan, White? But hopefully DJ will continue to gain confidence & grow as a basketball player & as a man, throughout his career & in life.

[TD 21]

I think eventually (in a future that is not immediate, maybe not until the offseason after this one) they will have to decide who among White/Murray to keep.

I always thought this would be the case, suspect a verdict is rendered this off season and that it'll be White due to his age, malleability (likely superior trade value) and the fact that they anointed Murray early and have already extended him.

I never bought the "back court of the future" talk. Of course, given the situation of this team, they should be playing significantly more together, but they're not actually a good fit offensively.

They'd either have to luck into one of two rare archetypes to build an average - above average without a dynamic/explosive guard: a do it all big wing or point center. Good luck with that.

[gambit1990]

i would be in no rush to trade murray.

packaging him with demar could lead to some interesting offers though...

[BackHome]

I agree the Spurs take risk with draft picks picking more for possible upside then current production they need to take the same risks with trades. I think DEROZZ trade with Murray could net us a very good player PF or SF or good player with a draft pick.

[poopbox]

I don't understand the hand ringing over Dejounte cause I do not know of a point guard in the nba playing with a worst collection of nba skill around him than dejounte is...

Dejounte is NEVER going to be able to pass the ball to a cutting Bryn Forbes for an easy basket because Forbes doesn't cut to the basket...he just hovers around the 3 point line...

Dejounte is NEVER going to be able to run a fast break and then pass it out to wide open Derozan for 3 because Derozan doesn't shoot 3's...

Dejounte is NEVER going to be able to run a pick and pop with Poeltl because Poeltl doesn't shoot anything that is not a 5 foot pop a shot or a dunk...and any pass Dejounte does throw has to be picture perfect cause if you put any traffic around Poeltl he gets stone hands...

Dejounte is NEVER going to be able to hit Lamarcus cutting to the basket because he doesn't do that...he is not really going to get any assist with Lamarcus because whenever he does get it in the post he pounds it forever...the only way Dejounte can get any assist out of LMA is when LMA is in straight pussy mode and won't play in the post at all and does nothing but pick and pop...

Then...who is setting up Dejounte to score when he doesn't have the ball ? Not LMA he is arguably the worst passing big I have ever seen... not Poeltl I don't think i have seen him have the ball in his hands longer than 4 seconds since he got here...not Forbes who is also an awful passer...Demar can when he is not looking to call his own number and pad his own stats, which is most of the time...

So Dejounte is playing with a guard who never goes to the rim, another guard who never shoots 3, one of the most if not THE most plodding big man in the nba, and a center who has no offensive game outside of dunking the ball...how is he supposed to help these guys score and exactly what are they doing to help him score ?

John Stockton couldn't run a pick and roll with the bigs on our team cause they either don't role to the basket ( LMA ) or have stone hand (Poeltl)

[ragas]

I don't understand the hand ringing over Dejounte cause I do not know of a point guard in the nba playing with a worst collection of nba skill around him than dejounte is...

Dejounte is NEVER going to be able to pass the ball to a cutting Bryn Forbes for an easy basket because Forbes doesn't cut to the basket...he just hovers around the 3 point line...

Dejounte is NEVER going to be able to run a fast break and then pass it out to wide open Derozan for 3 because Derozan doesn't shoot 3's...

Dejounte is NEVER going to be able to run a pick and pop with Poeltl because Poeltl doesn't shoot anything that is not a 5 foot pop a shot or a dunk...and any pass Dejounte does throw has to be picture perfect cause if you put any traffic around Poeltl he gets stone hands...

Dejounte is NEVER going to be able to hit Lamarcus cutting to the basket because he doesn't do that...he is not really going to get any assist with Lamarcus because whenever he does get it in the post he pounds it forever...the only way Dejounte can get any assist out of LMA is when LMA is in straight pussy mode and won't play in the post at all and does nothing but pick and pop...

Then...who is setting up Dejounte to score when he doesn't have the ball ? Not LMA he is arguably the worst passing big I have ever seen... not Poeltl I don't think i have seen him have the ball in his hands longer than 4 seconds since he got here...not Forbes who is also an awful passer...Demar can when he is not looking to call his own number and pad his own stats, which is most of the time...

So Dejounte is playing with a guard who never goes to the rim, another guard who never shoots 3, one of the most if not THE most plodding big man in the nba, and a center who has no offensive game outside of dunking the ball...how is he supposed to help these guys score and exactly what are they doing to help him score ?

John Stockton couldn't run a pick and roll with the bigs on our team cause they either don't role to the basket ( LMA ) or have stone hand (Poeltl)

omg. pick & roll with Poeltl works well for White & Lonnie. Toronto guards like Lowry & Van Fleet had no problem as well. Dejounte has no court vision. Instead of passing the damn ball he runs in the defenders at least 3 times a game, because he also is missing the ballhandling skills you need as a point guard. Spurs better trade him as long as anybody thinks he is on a good contract. Be serious: He‘s a backup at best at the moment. If he improves his shot he has some worth, but he will never be a point guard.