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Pretty sure it's related to Young Dolph being killed when he went back to his home city
https://twitter.com/spurs/status/1461132171985444865
Agreed man! Meanwhile half of Spurs talk see him as an impediment to White and Murray’s growth.
Pretty sure it's related to Young Dolph being killed when he went back to his home city
What? No I wouldn't, and you know it.
Trading Lonnie right now makes no sense, his value is at an all-time low. On the contrary, Murray's numbers are inefficient and pumped up due to an offensive vacuum that he's filling with increased touches (last I checked, he was averaging something like 20 points... On 20 shots per game). Literally the perfect time to trade him, before the Spurs either acquire better talent that takes away touches from him, or he starts getting gameplanned for and has his numbers drop. I'd love for a trade deadline package, though I acknowledge it's not gonna happen.
It's funny that you're saying this to me, since you've been weirdly over-protective of Dejounte on this forum for some time now. I like Lonnie, and Poeltl too, and would like for both to stick on the team, but wouldn't hesitate to trade either for the right offer. Nobody on this roster is untouchable - not even Primo, and especially not Dejounte, no matter how much of a "leader" he might be.
Didn’t say to trade Lonnie when his value is low.
weirdly overprotective? Yeeah okay. You know, i actually like you dude and i wont get into this with you since you sound snappy with this post. To me, it sounds like a lot of mental gymnastics to dismiss what Murray’s doing right now and to trade the guy for simply trading the guy for a +1% greater chance at lottery odds. Makes no sense.
Why'd you say he wouldn't fetch much? He's a do-it-all PG and many teams in the league could use that, Philly being the prime example. His numbers are inflated due to the offensive vacuum on the team and inefficient, he's bound to come back to Earth sooner than later, and/or with more talent on the team (exponential growth? Where?the dude is 25 and isn't putting up some kind of historic season, what are you talking about?). This is literally the "sell high" stage of him, at least from a Spurs POV (and ignoring the obvious fact that a trade-shy org like the Spurs won't consider this, sadly).
His contract being low is actually a selling point, moreso. The Spurs have no real need for "great value" contracts, having not a lot of money in the books and many expendable players; meanwhile, capspace-strapped contenders could definitely use his high production per dollar spent, and would probably pay a premium for it. The Suns, for example, are certainly thinking of a CP3 replacement to keep their playoff runs going into the future, whilst having to balance Booker, Ayton, etc's contracts.
Not nearly as crazy as you made it sound, brother.
Unless I understood you wrong, you said if DJ's name was Lonnie, I'd be singing a different tune, AKA not advocating for trading him; and I'm telling you, even though I like Lonnie, if he was putting up inefficient numbers on a tanking team, I'd be trying to sell high on him too (can I say that I also like DJ too? Like, where's this coming from? I've had his back, never called him IG baller or , and knew he'd come back better from the ACL; I just don't marry to any one player, especially on a team like the current Spurs).
Get into what, D? I'm not attacking you whatsoever, just your arguments. None of my posts here are "personal" in that regard, except when I'm bashing that re M
I'll ask you a different question: what exactly is Murray "doing right now"? I specifically mean, what is he doing right now that is so irreplaceable that you wouldn't even consider trading him? Rebounding guards are overrated, especially in the modern NBA. His shooting isn't really especially, made even more apparent when you consider how midrange-heavy his game is (we've already gone back and forth over how his deficiency shooting 3's affects his game, I won't get into that here). His efficiency isn't special, his shooting isn't special (not the kind of special that makes a player untouchable, I mean), his playmaking isn't special.
I'm not seeing the mental gymnastics, tbqh. And it's not just better lottery odds that you get for trading him (that's actually irrelevant, you can perfectly tank out a season with a player like DJ on the roster, simply sitting him in the 4th). Right now, DJ could net the Spurs two FRPs, a prospect, and who knows what else, from the many contenders and not-so-contenders through the league, Phoenix and Philly being two examples. So yeah, I don't get the over-protectiveness when there's a good case to be made for trading him, is all.
You don't gotta tag me if you're quoting me, pal. Might wanna expand some more on these brilliant thoughts of yours? I garner from your post that you'd go trade Walker tomorrow or the day after...?
Sugs you are dead on here. I was saying during the off-season that I hoped DJ was having the kind of year he is having so his value goes up and we can trade him away. The dude does a lot of things well but he jacks up a lot of midrange shots to get his 20. His 3 still sucks and he can’t play off ball at all.
The trouble is that he is by far our best player. But the time to sell on DJ is now.
Feel we will have to move on from White, Murray, Walker and maybe Johnson before this team starts to see an upward trajectory. These guys are the stopgap players to being good again. Could take another 3-5 years.
Murray is not a point , he lacks vision/feel.
DJM misses a lot of players cutting to the basket for easy shot opportunities and doesn't make his self available on offense if he doesn't have the ball in his hands. He does have that stripted one bounce pass off of a pick and roll that he does getting some assist off of but that's about it unless he finds a player open for a 3 standing still and ready for the set shot. He still rebounds from teammates to get his stats higher. If you listen to most of his past interviews, he ALWAYS says "I" tell ____(insert any teammate name) just be you, etc. He always says that he's a pass 1st point gaurd to getting his teammates open shots. All of us fans watching the games know that's not true. He is the best player on the team right now but when the Spurs are contending again he will have to be at least the 3rd option and not the best player on the team. Love his defense though. All could be alright in about 2 to 3 years when Primo is the #1 option, Vassell the #2 and DJM the #3. Add in Jacob's improvements over that span along with Tre Jones being integrated more, Forbes off the team, at least 1 more lottery pick after this season and White coming off the bench as the 6th man. Spurs contending team in 2 to 3 years could look something like this:
DJM, T. Jones
Primo, White
Vassell, Wiescamp
2022 lottery pick PF, KJ
Jacob, Z. Collins
We need a center like Valanciunas or KAT or Ayton, and a PF stud in the draft. Do that with Primo and his developmental potential, Vassell, and Murray and you've got a playoff team capable of doing damage, assuming your bench is deep.
While his trade value may be at an all time high I personally don't think trading our best young player on a good contract to be a smart move but it also depends on what we get in return. If its just picks then why trade a good prospect that is young and on a good contract for just the coin flip possibility of getting someone as good or better through the draft? If its for a legit all star that can immediately make us contenders then sure, but that isn't happening. If its to trade him for Simmons.... NO!!!!!!!!!
Murray may be stat stuffing on a bad team but he brings more to the team than just stat stuffing, his defense is great and will always be a valuable asset no matter how good the team is. He is also the longest tenured Spur at the moment and he is the last player on the team who has played with all of our great HOF players. That experience is valuable and hopefully he's been shown how to be an effective leader. DJM has also displayed that he gets better every year which is a testament to his dedication. You want guys like that on your team!
This is where the dumb s on this forum desperately try to trade a guy having a career year for a late first round pick that has a 35% chance of becoming a role player. Because the s here think its addition by subtraction and every late first rounder is a star in the making until he hits court and reality sets in.
I wouldn't trade Murray for a lottery pick outside of the top 3 right now. We're one (non black hole DDR clone) semi-star away from being in the playoffs.
This is a good take. You're not going to return a game changer. This season from DJ has more value if you can sign a few better players around him next offseason and maybe a solid somewhat NBA ready draft pick. His confidence will be up and a defensive minded guard who has found himself offensively isn't exactly an easy thing to replace.
DJ is the one guy you don’t trade. Smh at these bad takes in this thread. Y’all wanna tank for another 10 years?
I don't believe this at all. they just lack a superstar.
I think all the players you mentioned would be fantastic role players on a team with 2 solid stars.
Lets just say we had a prime Kawhi and an aging aldridge.
Murray - PG
Vassel - SG
Kawhi - SF
Johnson - PF
Aldridge - C
Bench:
White
Walker
McDermott
Poeltl
that would be a solid team. of course having a prime non injured Kawhi makes all the difference in the world. But these guys would i'm sure do very well in their supportive role.
right now, there is no go to guy. there is no star. so everyone is trying to "be that main guy"
honestly i think if Pop would just say that they are going to center their offense around "x" player, it may actually help the team just to find their role.
so my point is, we can keep these guys and hope we get super lucky and draft our next star. cause we sure aren't gonna be able to trade for him.
wow i'm glad to see there are still people with brains on this forum
Role players = stopgap players. You agree and don't even know you agree.
Tre Jones is actually a better PG than DJ, if DJ were to get traded.
I think Tre has the potential to be a very good PG, albeit smaller. But that didn’t deter TP. Tre has the same burst of speed and deceptive athleticism. TP didn’t have the jump shot when he first started, but he had the spin moves and tear drops. I think the Spurs should focus on getting more minutes to Tre, instead of Forbes, and develop him as much as Spurs future starting PG.
Last year I was open to trading DJ. But not at this exact moment. For me, I assumed White was actually better. That’s obviously no longer the case. And we haven’t seen enough of Tre to know if he can take on a bigger role.
DJ is definitely looking to get other players involved now, which was a tectonic shift. I didn’t think he would ever change. And most importantly, his drive and motivation is off the charts. DJ, Yak, and Vassel are the keepers so far. Keldon seems more like a potential trade target, but I like his vibe so I see no reason to get rid of him.
That’s my half-baked take. Go Spurs. Kawhi.
Last edited by The Truth #6; 11-19-2021 at 01:35 PM.
i guess if stopgap players = role players then we agree
but with what i don't agree is that we need to move on from them in order for this team to get better.
obviously we can't keep everyone but if these guys were on the roster along with 2 star players, they would be a real strong team imo. I believe we just lack the star player that every contender needs.
White - off the bench PG would be great IMO
Walker - off the bench SG is his role. Very inconsistent but can have great nights.
Johnson - I think he can be a starter if he's put in the Bruce Bowen role. Just focus on the corner 3 or the 3 ball period. Don't worry about driving at the moment. He tries to do too much too often.
And then there's Murray.
I love Murray, i think he's turned himself into a really really good player. I love his length, his work ethic and his love for the game. And I want him to stay a spur for life.
What I don't love are his handles or his decision making on fast breaks.
I feel like his decision making can and will improve. But his handles are likely to stay at the level they are at. I'm pretty sure he has worked on them extensively throughout his life but there is too much hitting the ball off of his own foot, too many deflections, too many unforced turnovers.
He's not horrible or anything but if we are looking to build a championship team, i believe we would need another player to be the main ball distributor in my opinion. And there in lies the problem since he's a PG.
Him being next to Primo could work since it seems like Primo has good handles from what I've seen.
You've gone full S if you think what I said is anywhere near "hate", lmfao. Criticisms of a player's game have never been "hate" and never will be. Hateful implies unjust judgement, personal attacks, things I've never once done - you can cite the "hate" you're seeing if you want, because there isn't any.More about the weird DM hate.
I guess asking posters to distinguish between criticism and "hate" is too much to ask for these days.
Tre Jones didn't have the best first year but after summer league, I was impressed. Although he is smaller he does the makings of a pretty good pg.
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