Trade Murray

[TDomination]

Tre Jones is actually a better PG than DJ, if DJ were to get traded.

I think Tre has the potential to be a very good PG, albeit smaller. But that didn’t deter TP. Tre has the same burst of speed and deceptive athleticism. TP didn’t have the jump shot when he first started, but he had the spin moves and tear drops. I think the Spurs should focus on getting more minutes to Tre, instead of Forbes, and develop him as much as Spurs future starting PG.

I like Tre too. He seems good and would love for him to get more minutes but not at the expense of Murray though. Perhaps instead of White idk.

I still like White but man i'm just disappointed like i'm sure most spurs fans are in him. sucks.

[Sugus]

Sugs you are dead on here. I was saying during the off-season that I hoped DJ was having the kind of year he is having so his value goes up and we can trade him away. The dude does a lot of things well but he jacks up a lot of midrange shots to get his 20. His 3 still sucks and he can’t play off ball at all.

The trouble is that he is by far our best player. But the time to sell on DJ is now.

Yep, I too have been on the wagon for some time now. It's hilarious reading posters taking any criticism whatsoever of DJ's game as "hate", yet turning around and bashing other players up and down for things that are beyond their control or attacking them personally (cough cough Forbes, Jakob, etc). I never would've imagined, after all the actual hate, insults, "IG Baller" comments and stuff Dejounte got on here during his ACL rehab seasons, that he'd suddenly become ST's golden child, but here we are I guess.

Yeah, him being the Spurs' best player and leader, combined with the Spurs FO's conservative approach to roster building/shakeup, makes a trade unlikely if not impossible. But it's absolutely the right time. I don't know where people are getting this "exponential growth" BS either.

[Sugus]

This is where the dumb s on this forum desperately try to trade a guy having a career year for a late first round pick that has a 35% chance of becoming a role player. Because the s here think its addition by subtraction and every late first rounder is a star in the making until he hits court and reality sets in.

I wouldn't trade Murray for a lottery pick outside of the top 3 right now. We're one (non black hole DDR clone) semi-star away from being in the playoffs.

Lmao. Either Dejounte is playing so well that he's ""untradeable"", or he's playing bad enough to net a "late first round pick" only. They're mutually exclusive. Of course, the former is true, and a package centered around DJ could net the Spurs upwards of two quality FRPs, maybe a good prospect if the deal's good enough. Not to mention, DJ was a 29th pick; getting more, and higher quality/position, picks than were used to get him is a perfect ROI.

What's with the weird ST holdout regarding getting picks for players? Dejounte isn't some All-NBA talent that's a franchise building block. He's a very hardworking player, but there's a lot of those in the league - and for all the progress DJ has made, there's simply players with talent levels exponentially higher, coming out the womb with better offensive/defensive skillsets than Dejounte could ever hope for. It's just the reality of basketball.

I guess on a team like the current Spurs roster, people gotta grab onto whatever they can. I'm only sad that it's not Jakob people get so defensive about... I'd be having better discussions, at the least

[The Truth #6]

Now, I’m not opposed to trading DJ absolutely, but it would have to be in a certain context where his absence either is replaced by a more useful player or his absence creates the opportunity for a younger player to get an expanded role.

Anyway, this all theoretical. He isn’t going anywhere unless he decides to leave.

[Jsmythe]

Lmao. Either Dejounte is playing so well that he's ""untradeable"", or he's playing bad enough to net a "late first round pick" only. They're mutually exclusive. Of course, the former is true, and a package centered around DJ could net the Spurs upwards of two quality FRPs, maybe a good prospect if the deal's good enough. Not to mention, DJ was a 29th pick; getting more, and higher quality/position, picks than were used to get him is a perfect ROI.

What's with the weird ST holdout regarding getting picks for players? Dejounte isn't some All-NBA talent that's a franchise building block. He's a very hardworking player, but there's a lot of those in the league - and for all the progress DJ has made, there's simply players with talent levels exponentially higher, coming out the womb with better offensive/defensive skillsets than Dejounte could ever hope for. It's just the reality of basketball.

I guess on a team like the current Spurs roster, people gotta grab onto whatever they can. I'm only sad that it's not Jakob people get so defensive about... I'd be having better discussions, at the least

I disagree with "DJ was a 29th pick, so trading him for a higher position pick in a trade is good ROI". The problem is that the draft is a crapshoot, and even if you get a #10 pick from trading him (let's say), odds are that the player you end up picking will be worse (just look at recent drafts: Cam Reddish, Jalen Smith, Ziaire Williams). And even if you manage to find someone better than DJ in the draft, it's not a sure thing to be able to keep that person long term (Anthony Davis, Ben Simmons, etc). Also, the Spurs front office has been making questionable draft picks recently (Samanic/Primo, although Primo is looking like a good gamble right now). If you're going to trade DJ, it should be for another player and not some draft pick, unless the draft pick is very high. But teams with very high draft picks probably don't want or need someone like DJ.

Edit: By the way, I have nothing against Primo. I just get the feeling that even if the Spurs had the #1 pick, they would have picked him. The front office just seem to get locked in to one favorite player and ignore everyone else.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Depends on what you could get. Murray is exceeding expectations, IMO. He'll likely never be a superstar, but with the right cast around him he could be a significant contributor. He could be a Sean Elliott impact type of player.

[TDomination]

Depends on what you could get. Murray is exceeding expectations, IMO. He'll likely never be a superstar, but with the right cast around him he could be a significant contributor. He could be a Sean Elliott impact type of player.

agreed 100%

[mo7888]

Sugs you are dead on here. I was saying during the off-season that I hoped DJ was having the kind of year he is having so his value goes up and we can trade him away. The dude does a lot of things well but he jacks up a lot of midrange shots to get his 20. His 3 still sucks and he can’t play off ball at all.

The trouble is that he is by far our best player. But the time to sell on DJ is now.

I'm with you guys on DJ and if I'm being honest nobody on this team should be off limits but, my question regarding DJ is...trade him for what? What would he realistically fetch either by himself or packaged with another player?

[Leetonidas]

Id be kind of annoyed if they traded Murray this season simply because his was the only Fiesta jersey I could snag this year

[Dverde]

I feel like DJ ain’t feeling this rebuild. He looks pissed off losing games. Wouldn’t be shocked if he wants out after he gets his “career year” playing on a bad team. Not sure I’d be upset at him as long as he was open and not being a diva about it.

[KobesAchilles]

I'm with you guys on DJ and if I'm being honest nobody on this team should be off limits but, my question regarding DJ is...trade him for what? What would he realistically fetch either by himself or packaged with another player?

Tbh I’m hoping to trade him for Brown. At first I wanted Simmons for Murray but Simmons. I don’t want a quitter. Not again. So my unrealistic dream is Brown from the Celtics. I feel like Boston is close to making a huge trade.

[BacktoBasics]

Only ST would want to trade a guy who’s punched way above his draft position on a reasonably good contract to roll the dice on an unknown draft pick.

[exstatic]

He shouldn’t be traded, but he’s not really a lead guard. More of a secondary creator. Both White and Jones are better distributors.

[Dejounte]

Why'd you say he wouldn't fetch much? He's a do-it-all PG and many teams in the league could use that, Philly being the prime example. His numbers are inflated due to the offensive vacuum on the team and inefficient, he's bound to come back to Earth sooner than later, and/or with more talent on the team (exponential growth? Where? the dude is 25 and isn't putting up some kind of historic season, what are you talking about?). This is literally the "sell high" stage of him, at least from a Spurs POV (and ignoring the obvious fact that a trade-shy org like the Spurs won't consider this, sadly).

Sugus, no offense but this reeks of ignorance

Before you say "what are you talking about", at least recall the fact that you said you haven't really been keeping up with this season otherwise you wouldn't spout nonsense like this.

[Dejounte]

Unless I understood you wrong, you said if DJ's name was Lonnie, I'd be singing a different tune, AKA not advocating for trading him; and I'm telling you, even though I like Lonnie, if he was putting up inefficient numbers on a tanking team, I'd be trying to sell high on him too (can I say that I also like DJ too? Like, where's this coming from? I've had his back, never called him IG baller or , and knew he'd come back better from the ACL; I just don't marry to any one player, especially on a team like the current Spurs).

Yes, and I've never been married to any player either. I was on the hate train on DJ for at least a full year when it was justified because he wasn't showing any improvement. If there was a post search function, you'd easily find it. But here's the difference: I can easily give that up when a player starts to deserve recognition and I don't keep raising the bar for a player to standards he will never meet and pretend said player ever had a chance in proving to me that he should remain a Spur.

But saying the Spurs should sell high on a player that's likely close to his ceiling, and putting up good numbers on a bad team and that could fool some FO into overpaying for him, there's no personal attacks there.

Just so what? The Spurs could get an imaginary package of two first round picks and cross our fingers that they buy-in like DJ already has? You're so in a rush to repeat a cycle that's completely unnecessary. There's not much of an advantage you think there is with trading DJ. It won't move the Spurs' draft position, if at all. Let's look at the main reason why you think this is a good plan: You think players are like trading cards and you can switch them out whenever you desire. The problem is, it doesn't work that way-- you're not trading just the player and his stats, you're trading away the player the entire organization has invested their time (that they can never get back) pouring their knowledge and wisdom into and probably being a part of DJ's life and his emotional growth, because everyone knows DJ was some sort of a problem child since he walked through those doors. He is much matured now and I can't imagine what kind of life things they've experienced behind closed doors. You're not just giving up the player, you're giving up the HUMAN and that's what has always separated the Spurs from any other organization. Dejounte has become an integral part of the Spurs' iden y and I bet you they couldn't be any more proud of him. You say he's "already 25" but Pop has made remarks of the leadership growth he has had this year. Jrue Holiday is a good example of growth in their late 20's. Jrue has never been a model of efficiency, but I would take him as a building block over many other PG's 10 times out of 10.

I'll ask you a different question: what exactly is Murray "doing right now"? I specifically mean, what is he doing right now that is so irreplaceable that you wouldn't even consider trading him? Rebounding guards are overrated, especially in the modern NBA. His shooting isn't really especially, made even more apparent when you consider how midrange-heavy his game is (we've already gone back and forth over how his deficiency shooting 3's affects his game, I won't get into that here). His efficiency isn't special, his shooting isn't special (not the kind of special that makes a player untouchable, I mean), his playmaking isn't special.

Again, I think because you haven't watched many games, it leads to blatantly false statements such as this one. And even if you did, you'd still have the goggles you have on that doesn't enable you to assess DJ's play (and improvement) accurately.

Right now, DJ could net the Spurs two FRPs, a prospect, and who knows what else, from the many contenders and not-so-contenders through the league, Phoenix and Philly being two examples. So yeah, I don't get the over-protectiveness when there's a good case to be made for trading him, is all.

There's no "right now, DJ could net the Spurs two FRPs, a prospect, and who knows what else" when it is nowhere close to being truth. That is unless you're looking at other message boards and reading what dumb fans are saying they'd offer for Dejounte. Totally asinine to write that statement as if it's factual.

[Dejounte]

I disagree with "DJ was a 29th pick, so trading him for a higher position pick in a trade is good ROI". The problem is that the draft is a crapshoot, and even if you get a #10 pick from trading him (let's say), odds are that the player you end up picking will be worse (just look at recent drafts: Cam Reddish, Jalen Smith, Ziaire Williams). And even if you manage to find someone better than DJ in the draft, it's not a sure thing to be able to keep that person long term (Anthony Davis, Ben Simmons, etc). Also, the Spurs front office has been making questionable draft picks recently (Samanic/Primo, although Primo is looking like a good gamble right now). If you're going to trade DJ, it should be for another player and not some draft pick, unless the draft pick is very high. But teams with very high draft picks probably don't want or need someone like DJ.

Edit: By the way, I have nothing against Primo. I just get the feeling that even if the Spurs had the #1 pick, they would have picked him. The front office just seem to get locked in to one favorite player and ignore everyone else.

This is exactly correct. It is wishful thinking to say that mid-late FRP's are a good ROI because it completely ignores so many other things. People want the Spurs to pick a direction and build towards something, trading away the one player that's FINALLY seen worthwhile growth is not building towards anything. It's taking ten steps backwards.

[Ocotillo]

Draft is a crap shoot even for good drafting teams. Lonnie and Sandwich were decent draft positions but at this point, looks like late round Murray and even White have performed better.

[Sugus]

I disagree with "DJ was a 29th pick, so trading him for a higher position pick in a trade is good ROI".

You can disagree with the perspective; it doesn't make it any less true, tbh. Objectively (maybe Morey-vely?), getting even two late lottery picks for a player picked at #29 is a great ROI. You as a team simply can't keep every player you draft, and tough choices are made every year regarding who's kept, who's cut, and who's promising but has to go for the betterment of the team. Look at it this way: if there was no promise, no potential, no I-wanna-keep-him feeling over a player, why would another team want them? You gotta sell high sometimes and hope you're selling at the peak, and not selling Bitcoin in '15, if you know what I mean.

The problem is that the draft is a crapshoot, and even if you get a #10 pick from trading him (let's say), odds are that the player you end up picking will be worse (just look at recent drafts: Cam Reddish, Jalen Smith, Ziaire Williams).

What? No they aren't lmao, what are you talking about? Other teams making bad draft choices has literally no correlation to the Spurs' own pickings and draft probabilities. The correlation is actually the opposite of what you're describing; given the Spurs had such prowess to make a great pick in selecting DJ with a #29th pick, it's perfectly fair to assume they can make even better selections, or at least consistently solid/outperforming ones, given an even higher draft pick. I perfectly know the draft is uncertain, but that's a given with anything regarding development of players, and I very much trust the Spurs' drafting department here.

And even if you manage to find someone better than DJ in the draft, it's not a sure thing to be able to keep that person long term (Anthony Davis, Ben Simmons, etc). Also, the Spurs front office has been making questionable draft picks recently (Samanic/Primo, although Primo is looking like a good gamble right now). If you're going to trade DJ, it should be for another player and not some draft pick, unless the draft pick is very high. But teams with very high draft picks probably don't want or need someone like DJ.

Edit: By the way, I have nothing against Primo. I just get the feeling that even if the Spurs had the #1 pick, they would have picked him. The front office just seem to get locked in to one favorite player and ignore everyone else.

Uh, you can trade DJ for a pick and a player, you know that, right? I see where you're coming from though. At the end of the day, I guess it depends on how high you are on Dejounte - if you feel like he has "many levels" of untapped potential, then yeah, selling off just to get an uncertain draft pick(s) doesn't sound like a good plan. If, like me, however, you think he's close to his ceiling, and you don't think his ceiling is what the team needs, it's suddenly not such a crazy idea.

And at the end of the day, that's all I was arguing, because for some reason the pendulum's swung the other way, and where you got crazy looks two years ago for saying Dejounte would be a great player, now you get the crazy looks for saying he might not be the All-NBA talent the team needs to build around, and would be better served in a lesser role around a more complete and talented roster.

Just how the times change, I guess...

[Sugus]

Sugus, no offense but this reeks of ignorance

Before you say "what are you talking about", at least recall the fact that you said you haven't really been keeping up with this season otherwise you wouldn't spout nonsense like this.

Funny you say that, because despite missing like the last 8 Spurs games besides the one agains Minny, I was aware of both of those stats. I sure know I'm not placing as much importance on them as you seem to do... They're basic counting stats "accolades", offensive ones at that, in the most offensively-tilted NBA that has ever existed to date. Offensive boards are easier to get than ever before, with long rebounds off volume 3pt shooting (as opposed to yesteryear's on average shorter rebounds due to a focus on shorter jumpshots) and no clogged paint filled with heavy 7ft players boxing DJ's skinny ass back to half-court, TBH; not to mention the overinflated value of rebounds for guards as a statistic - look no further than Westbrook for explanations there. The assists are nice to see, though.

So no, DJ having a Westbrook-lite, counting-stats-and-triple-dubs galore season isn't what I call a "historic" season, any more than this season might be "historic" if the Spurs miss more games than they've done in the last 15 years. You get my point (even if you don't agree) by now, I guess.

[Sugus]

Yes, and I've never been married to any player either. I was on the hate train on DJ for at least a full year when it was justified because he wasn't showing any improvement. If there was a post search function, you'd easily find it. But here's the difference: I can easily give that up when a player starts to deserve recognition and I don't keep raising the bar for a player to standards he will never meet and pretend said player ever had a chance in proving to me that he should remain a Spur.

Sigh, this is turning into a flame war, exactly where I didn't want it to go. What's with the jab, the "difference"? What bar exactly am I raising? I've been making the same critiques re: Murray's game than I've been for the past few years, and he's still bad at the things I criticized him for. How do you know he'll never meet them, if he's on path to such hyperbolic growth? My bar has always had to do with what I consider a championship-calibre PG in the modern NBA, and I still don't see the way Murray plays as championship-calibre or close to it, sorry to say. I don't know what about this triggers so much in you.

Just so what? The Spurs could get an imaginary package of two first round picks and cross our fingers that they buy-in like DJ already has? You're so in a rush to repeat a cycle that's completely unnecessary. There's not much of an advantage you think there is with trading DJ. It won't move the Spurs' draft position, if at all. Let's look at the main reason why you think this is a good plan: You think players are like trading cards and you can switch them out whenever you desire. The problem is, it doesn't work that way-- you're not trading just the player and his stats, you're trading away the player the entire organization has invested their time (that they can never get back) pouring their knowledge and wisdom into and probably being a part of DJ's life and his emotional growth, because everyone knows DJ was some sort of a problem child since he walked through those doors. He is much matured now and I can't imagine what kind of life things they've experienced behind closed doors. You're not just giving up the player, you're giving up the HUMAN and that's what has always separated the Spurs from any other organization. Dejounte has become an integral part of the Spurs' iden y and I bet you they couldn't be any more proud of him. You say he's "already 25" but Pop has made remarks of the leadership growth he has had this year. Jrue Holiday is a good example of growth in their late 20's. Jrue has never been a model of efficiency, but I would take him as a building block over many other PG's 10 times out of 10.

Ooof, ok, you've gone full Pop here, man. "You're not just giving up the player, you're giving up the HUMAN"? Seriously?

Players are traded every single year, by every single team, and it's (almost) never personal. Yes, the Spurs have invested time in developing Murray, which has caused him to grow from a player that was almost out of the first round when the Spurs picked him up, to an above-average NBA starting guard. That's far from a marriage proposal... The Spurs aren't doing "wrong" by DJ if they trade him, it's just the name of the game and he knows it, everyone does. Why are you getting butthurt about this? at looking at DJ's "emotional growth" as something that should prevent the FO from dealing him... and "Let's look at the main reason why you think this is a good plan: You think players are like trading cards and you can switch them out whenever you desire." - what? I never said that, don't think that, and won't even engage that stupid line of thinking, as it's so obviously a veiled attack. Do better, D. You can.

Regarding the rest - he can grow as a leader all he wants, and it won't be enough (again, IMO, I don't know or care what the FO thinks of him). And Jrue is a terrible example to use, a player developing in his late 20's isn't a "building block" that a tanking team should use for their own, he's exactly the kind of player that's dealt away for assets that are actually within the team's timeline, unless he's CP3-levels of valuable as a teaching vet, which DJ isn't.

Again, I think because you haven't watched many games, it leads to blatantly false statements such as this one. And even if you did, you'd still have the goggles you have on that doesn't enable you to assess DJ's play (and improvement) accurately.

Bruh I've been watching DJ for what, three, four years now? And missed 7-8 games of the start of the season? What's this not-watching BS about? I know exactly what kinda player he is, and having watched his latest game against Minny, I saw absolutely nothing that I wasn't expecting already. Can you explain exactly how his playmaking has improved to "can't trade him" levels? I still see mechanical passes, tunnel vision when attacking the rim (especially in transition), an unability to get the rest of the team involved unless it's the basic drive&kick.

I feel like, if his playmaking was as special as you want it to be, you'd have a much better case to be made for it, instead of having to retort to the "you don't watch so you wouldn't know" narrative that's so obviously untrue. I'm NOT comparing them, but take Doncic for example: you don't gotta write paragraphs on how his playmaking is special - you watch any one game, and it pops out of the screen. Or highlights, whatever. It's extra-ordinary, where DJ's passes so often are nothing more than ordinary. That is "do not trade" special to me (and no, not an impossible bar, it's an example).

There's no "right now, DJ could net the Spurs two FRPs, a prospect, and who knows what else" when it is nowhere close to being truth. That is unless you're looking at other message boards and reading what dumb fans are saying they'd offer for Dejounte. Totally asinine to write that statement as if it's factual.

what's asinine is thinking this is a fair line of thinking. So thinking DJ, who to you is untradeable, could fetch two FRPs is "nowhere close to being truth"? I said the same to another poster - you can't have it both way. Either he's playing well enough that he'd fetch at least two assets out of another team, or he's playing bad enough not to fetch them, so why's he so irreplaceable? Lmao... It's binary.

And lastly, how precisely could I gauge the value of a player to the rest of the league, then? Seems like watching him with my own eyes isn't enough, and you even say that looking at other fans' opinions isn't enough either (since they're so dumb!). Do I have to be on the GM's Zoom calls listening in on their trade proposals just to know? Phone Adam Silver personally and ask him? Maybe throw a coin in a well and see what happens...

[Sugus]

Tbh I’m hoping to trade him for Brown. At first I wanted Simmons for Murray but Simmons. I don’t want a quitter. Not again. So my unrealistic dream is Brown from the Celtics. I feel like Boston is close to making a huge trade.

This is actually a great trade target, BTW. Spurs could make great use of a smart, big, good defensive and playmaking wing like Brown, it's a much harder niche to fill than shoot-first PG. And Boston could absolutely use a floor general, playmaker, that doesn't lose them a step on defense while taking the ball away from Tatum so he can learn to play some damn off-ball action for once.

Though I don't see Boston having DJ high on their target list. I garner it'd take a FRP from SanAn to even get them interested on a deal. But that could be a great team for us... Move White to the 1 and try to get him to his pre-Denver series level, pull Devin into the SL as the designated SG, Brown at 3, and well, Keldon at undersized 4 with Jak at 5. Defense at every position, shooting at most of them, a good balance of size but low on rebounding prowess. It'd be interesting for sure.

[Dejounte]

They're basic counting stats "accolades", offensive ones at that, in the most offensively-tilted NBA that has ever existed to date.

Offensive boards are easier to get than ever before, with long rebounds off volume 3pt shooting (as opposed to yesteryear's on average shorter rebounds due to a focus on shorter jumpshots) and no clogged paint filled with heavy 7ft players boxing DJ's skinny ass back to half-court

TBH; not to mention the overinflated value of rebounds for guards as a statistic - look no further than Westbrook for explanations there.

So no, DJ having a Westbrook-lite, counting-stats-and-triple-dubs galore season isn't what I call a "historic" season,

I commend you for getting through that obstacle course to arrive at your logic.

This reminds me of when Poeltl was having a hot start, averaging 20 and 10, and Poeltl-haters were still not satisfied saying things like, "I'd still trade him". And honestly, if Poeltl did go on to have a 20 and 10 season, it would still not change those people's minds.

The irony here is I've seen you defend Poeltl with all your might, yet those folks will still cling on anything to remain convinced that they're right even when you have presented a sound and reasonable argument. What's most unimpressive about people's stance sometimes, is that they are too rigid in their thinking and their viewpoint will never bend when challenged.

Now that the subject matter is about another player, I see you're on the opposite end of that spectrum this time.

"Empty stats" is such a crapshoot argument. You're so caught up in your logic that when I mentioned you've missed the games, you resort to running to the "fake numbers" game failing to see how uncompe ive the games would be if Dejounte has not played the level he has played. To me, the only thing "empty" is a person looking at stats and forming an opinion without any time spent or context to back it up.

[Dejounte]

Sugus TBH, it's nothing personal and it isn't a "flame war". This is what happens when folks are passionate about a team and IMO, we're keeping it entertaining for folks to read this site seeing as how no one really posts much anymore.

[Dejounte]

I know exactly what kinda player he is, and having watched his latest game against Minny, I saw absolutely nothing that I wasn't expecting already.

Bruh, of course you would refer to the Minny game to validate your point. Of course you would.

This sentence says so much about what kind of approach you have this to argument. "I know exactly what kinda player he is" - this right here is 100% proof that it's helpless for Murray to do anything impressive in your eyes. You know what kind of player he is, thus there's nothing to improve upon.

I'll make this short and sweet:

I never said Murray was untradeable. Only that he should be last in consideration to being traded. Is that counterintuitive to your logic of doing a wholesale trade of any Spurs players who have the highest value? Yes. I'll say this again: I see zero sense in giving up the one young asset this team has who has shown worthwhile improvement. There is no return for Murray that will give back an up-and-coming prospect who has any chance of reaching Murray's level right now. Murray has more value to the Spurs than to other teams.

I never said Murray was a franchise player right now. There's no delusion here thinking that he's having a MVP-caliber season. (you seem to be convinced that anyone who is pro-Murray believes this) Could he get there? My mind is open enough to believe there's a possibility. Others were saying there was no way he was better or could get become better than White. I have a saying, "never say never...". That opinion looks foolish right now.

[KobesAchilles]

This is actually a great trade target, BTW. Spurs could make great use of a smart, big, good defensive and playmaking wing like Brown, it's a much harder niche to fill than shoot-first PG. And Boston could absolutely use a floor general, playmaker, that doesn't lose them a step on defense while taking the ball away from Tatum so he can learn to play some damn off-ball action for once.

Though I don't see Boston having DJ high on their target list. I garner it'd take a FRP from SanAn to even get them interested on a deal. But that could be a great team for us... Move White to the 1 and try to get him to his pre-Denver series level, pull Devin into the SL as the designated SG, Brown at 3, and well, Keldon at undersized 4 with Jak at 5. Defense at every position, shooting at most of them, a good balance of size but low on rebounding prowess. It'd be interesting for sure.

If we get like the 10th pick then I would for sure trade Murray and our pick for Brown. Also according to some Celtic fans that I follow, they are very high in DJ. The dude is impressing people around the league tbh. I’m not really anti-Murray at this point either. But I’m at a point where we need some fixes and this conservative thinking (IMO) isn’t going to fix it. I’m not exactly sure we know how to draft SG anyways (and don’t bring up Ginobili people) so we might as well get a known commodity.
There is no easy way to fix this team. But we do have to sell high when the market presents itself and I think DJs time is now