Reply With Quote
Whatever backup PG's are making these days.
What do you guys estimate as the market value of Murray is right now if he was restricted excluding unforeseen effects like cap not rising and covid revenue hit?
Whatever backup PG's are making these days.
The best ones 12-14, above average 7-8. Do you think he'll be one of the best backup point guards or just above average?
Barely above average, if that.
Also, outside of Mills' loyalty contract, which backup PG's are making 12-14 millions per year?
george hil 10, schroeder 15, cojo 12, smart 13, dinwiddie 11.5, clarkson 12.5
Murray would be top 5 PG if he learned to shoot the three.
For me it’s his Fathead mentality when it comes to shooting. Just take the damn 3! Idgaf about percentages, it’s the mindset that I care about. If he shot 5 threes a game and made 1.5 of them I would be content
There's a place for Murray since most teams are running 2 PGs on the court at the same time these days. He just has to stop ing sucking.
Could be a mental block. I think Murray may at least be working to get better. I get the feeling Fathead just wasn't trying. He wouldn't even take wide open corner threes.
In Murray‘s defense, he seems to have been working on his deficiencies for the last few years, mainly shooting and passing—granted, things that are pretty fundamental to being a point guard, but in the process I wonder if he has gotten away from his strengths, which initially were defense and rebounding. I would need to look up the stats, of course. But in general, he seems like a player who is no longer in his comfort zone. His comfort zone, however, might make him a limited player. Hence, the rub.
My main issue is what was Pop thinking when they tried to put a square into a round whole what and I mean that from day one it was easy to see he was not a PG. To be a true PG you have to have handles and you have to court vision which it became clear very early on he did not have these skills traits. He should have been moved to SG very early on and he should focus on defense and the 3 ball and he would probably be a much better player as of right now.
I will give him credit he really does have a sweet mid shoot and his 3 ball is getting better and if he keeps working on it I think will keep seeing improvement. But I don’t think he will improve in the skills necessary to be a PG he should focus on being a better Danny Green with a mid game.
I see your point and mostly agree with that. However, I do think it is good that the team is developing his skills, for example, his mid range game is something Bruce Bowen never had or strived to achieve. To me the problem with Murray is not that he wasn’t born a point guard, it’s that his at ude precludes him, it seems, from accepting different roles.
I think some of the challenges with Murray can be mitigated if pop is able to keep the same lineup that he had in the bubble. DD took up a lot of the play-making responsibilities, or at least shared it with Murray and White, and so no one was the point guard, which helped to reduce any player feeling rejected.
This is a roundabout way of saying they should probably trade Aldridge to keep the other egos in line.
Bobo could be pretty infuriating passing up wiiiide open 3s
Dude would make em when it counted tho
Agree with this - I want to expand on it, even. You can teach (almost) any player to have a proper shooting form. You can iron out kinks, smooth the jumping and shooting motion, teach them where and when they should be shooting, what kinds of shots they should be taking and what shots they shouldn't.
What you can't ever teach - and it's increasingly apparent Murray doesn't have - is a shooter's mentality. Dejounte simply doesn't look to shoot from behind the 3pt line, whether he's the one handling the ball or receiving a pass: he always, automatically, goes for a pump fake or an outright penetration. It's just how he's played basketball his entire life, and it's not something you can force a player to change, at 24yo nonetheless. He will certainly become a better shooter in time, because his motion can use work - but he'll never be a true SG (or shooting PG, whatever you want to call him).
To anyone doubting my statement, think about this hypothetical: game on the line, down 2 or 3, Dejounte has the ball. Is there really any scenario where he goes for a pull-up 3? No, there isn't. He will always, invariably, drive and try to force a shot at the rim or midrange, and we've seen this doesn't change even with excelling defenders in the paint, ready to meet him. I call it the "DeRozan Conundrum".
Last edited by Sugus; 09-25-2020 at 01:59 PM.
Sugus, I agree with what you’re saying, but I suppose I’m more concerned about his passing than his shooting mentality.
I'm equally concerned about both, tbh.
Just re-read all your posts on DJ. The thing is that, whether the Spurs try to develop his abilities or not... He's just not a very good player. I don't recall a single pass from him that made me go "wow, what a passer this guy is!" - in fact he still struggles with basic entry passes to LMA or DD. His playmaking has also always been suspect, he is not a capable handler in the PnR (doesn't try to at least, unlike Derrick who's literally top of the league at it) nor makes good plays for his teammates other than a kick and drive; on top of that, he's prone to tunnel vision, especially when driving and moreso now that his pull-up midrange game is flourishing. As for his dribbling, it's still inadequate and I haven't really seen an improvement there (though I'd be open to seeing some video comparisons, I'm just going off the eye test of watching most of his games).
So the obvious question is - why should the Spurs try so hard to bring a below-average player into even average territory in these basic skills, when he doesn't even have elite upside in any other thing (besides maybe rebounding for a guard, the most useless position to be elite at this)? Why not just draft, or develop, or trade for, another player who does have these skills figured out, and also elite upside in these or other areas? The only answer I can really come up with is either, loyalty for having drafted him, or the fact that they've already paid him. Both are problematic.
The kicker for me though, is that other teams, who haven't put in nearly the amount of hours that I've spent watching Dejounte, are likely still unaware of the presence or depth of these problems in DJ's game. He's to me the literal definition of selling high on a player; I don't see him ever living up to his current contract, much less get the Spurs value on it by performing above expectations. I could be completely wrong and have to eat my words in one or two years... But I'd much rather have another team be in possession of the gamble, tbh.
The scoring would be the key for him next season , specially besides white, they both have to be aggressive on shooting the three ball for that pairing to work. If they keep the same bubble starting lineup then Dejounte will handle the ball less and he can focus on threes and defense. If he can come close to those incentives then he's a completely different player.The young guard can make up to $70 million if he can make over 125 three-pointers in a season, exceed a True Shooting percentage, of 58 percent or make an All-Defensive team, according to The Athletic’s John Hollinger.
Last edited by rankingtear; 09-25-2020 at 04:54 PM.
Let's see, Murray made 41 threes this season in 66 games and had a TS of 52.4%. He must be banking on that All-Defensive selection.
Things change fast in professional sports. A year ago, especially given the hype we were fed from the media via the Spurs, it seemed reasonable or better.
Now, it looks foolish. Outside of mostly uncontested, low efficiency shots, he hasn't made progress and if White and Johnson are anything close to what they showed in the bubble, they're clearly better (the former already had it in him, he just showed it with consistency we'd yet to see) and Walker remains more intriguing/malleable.
They also probably overvalued themselves. He'd long been thought of as their most promising young player since S bag and since they had a hand in him and Parker, among others, becoming the players they did, they probably thought they could turn him into an average starting or better "PG".
Joseph is the only true backup "PG" of the bunch and that contract came from a joke organization, with an inexperienced, in over his head executive.
The rest are either starters or third guards.
None of the others start or are you saying they are not PG? Dinwiddie would be the closest to starting but he is the backup to Kyrie when healthy. If your going to say they are combo guards so is Murray.
I'd be all in on trading Murray if this team was poised to be compe ive next year. But it looks like the Spurs may be rebuilding the next couple of years. I think White is the better point guard but he's also 26 years old. He is what he is. By the time these younger Spurs reach their potential White may be 30 years old. So either keep Murray and see what he can become or draft or trade for a point guard.
Didn't they know Bertans inside and out? Asking for a friend.
I don't understand, what difference does the Spurs being compe ive or not make in the decision to trade Murray? If we're compe ive, he hinders the team with his below-average-for-pay production. If we're not compe ive, he hinders the team by using up cap space that could be destined to other, more upside-laden prospects, or destined to absorbing bad contracts from other teams in exchange for picks or players. In any case, if he's bad enough to warrant trading, what does the Spurs outlook have to do with it?
Second question - what's the issue with White being 30 when the team's players are reaching their potential? That's kind of the ideal age you'd want for a PG if you're having championship aspirations, which the Spurs would ideally be having once they're "reaching their potential". I ask this because it's brought up a lot, and I fail to see a problem... It's not like every player on a team has to be the same age, and it's not like 30 is an age where production suddenly declines, like 33-35 would be. White is perfect the way that he is, assuming the bubble White is here to stay... Can't ask for much more out of him. Even then, he's bound to get better just by physically developing and gaining experience, this is only his second year of fully NBA play. I don't see a need to draft for a PG, unless they're by and large the BPA, and assuming Dejounte is finally relegated to SG/whatever and we anoint White as our true PG, tbh.
In his current incarnation Murray ing stinks. If another team wants him it's solely based on potential. The Spurs have time to wait and see what he becomes.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
