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  1. #26
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    To be honest after What happened this past summer on loosing out on one of our trades and trading Bertans for a guy Poop never played and ended up trading him for nothing. That is not a good look and I don’t think players will come here if they is any other options.

  2. #27
    bandwagoner fans suck ducks's Avatar
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    To be honest after What happened this past summer on loosing out on one of our trades and trading Bertans for a guy Poop never played and ended up trading him for nothing. That is not a good look and I don’t think players will come here if they is any other options.
    Who says poop will be here ?

  3. #28
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    The team has drafted at least one forward for a few years now. There's no question that the team could use an ace PF, and I've said as much in so many threads that I'm not going to keep repeating that for your benefit. But the team needs a developmental center too. The ideal thing (outside of winning the lottery and getting Wiseman) would be to get a pick in the 20s and grab a guy to replace Eubanks or to push Eubanks for minutes if LMA or Poeltl leaves. It's a legit need that should be addressed in the draft.

    The team might well try again for getting a forward in free agency. If the team needs that position so much, then they need to use more immediate resources on it and not just every draft pick forever no matter what. Regardless, the Spurs did not lack size until they let all of their size go the off-season they traded Leonard. I agree there, but it's not like it was Kawhi who was the size for the Spurs. They should've gotten something back from Toronto like OG or Siakam and didn't. I like Johnson a lot, but it would've made sense to not get that pick if they had a chance to get more. And they'd already have a starting PF if they had just drafted Brandon Clarke over Samanic. I'll never be okay with that, just like I wasn't okay with drafting Milutinov over Harrell in 2015.
    The team needs a 3 and a 4 a lot more.

  4. #29
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    Am i the only one who feels the Spurs are going to have a fire sale on the vets this year in exchange for young talent?

    Aldridge, Rudy, Mills and DeRozan if he opts in are all on the last year of their contract after this season. If you were ever to extract value in a trade from any of those vets this off season is the time to do it.
    Mills isn’t getting traded FWIW

  5. #30
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    I know this won't happen especially after how Warren is playing in bubble but....



    i fixed it for you:

  6. #31
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    The team needs a 3 and a 4 a lot more.
    No, they don't need a three more than a five. Arguably their best prospect is a three, and their second-best prospect will play a lot of three in the modern NBA. If the Spurs luck in to a 6-8 guy, he'll be a four. There's no reason to keep pretending like SF is the same as it was back in the 90s. Even in the 2010's, SFs averaged at about 6-6. They need to replace their front court. They have nothing there, not even Walker or Johnson-level prospects.

    And again, if they NEED forwards that badly, they shouldn't be depending on the draft to get them. That was already stated in the bulk of the post that you ignored.

  7. #32
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    Main need is An athletic PF who has offense and defense game. Second would be a 6’8 SF who can play defense and hit the 3 ball. Third would be a athletic TOUGH center that can rebound and block some shots and has some outside game. Fourth would be anyone who has good handles and who can hit the 3 ball any position.

  8. #33
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    No, they don't need a three more than a five. [B]Arguably their best prospect is a three
    You mean Keldon? He's 6'5" on tiptoes. That's not a 3.

    and their second-best prospect will play a lot of three in the modern NBA. If the Spurs luck in to a 6-8 guy, he'll be a four. There's no reason to keep pretending like SF is the same as it was back in the 90s. Even in the 2010's, SFs averaged at about 6-6.
    Why the blatant lie son?

    Lebron 6'9"
    Paul George 6'8"
    Middleton 6'7"
    Covington 6'9"
    Ingles 6'7"
    Butler 6'7"
    Ben Simmons 6'10"
    Tatum 6'8"
    Anunoby 6'8"
    Porter Jr 6'10"

    Those are the SF of all the teams worth a .

    They need to replace their front court. They have nothing there, not even Walker or Johnson-level prospects.
    They have Poeltl at that position for the foreseeable future. A former lottery pick who has been posting great positive metrics ever since he got to the league. The dude is a starter level center, no matter what the "let's overreact for 2 bubble games on unsual cir stances" crowd thinks.

    And again, if they NEED forwards that badly, they shouldn't be depending on the draft to get them. That was already stated in the bulk of the post that you ignored.
    They need forwards so badly that they need to adress it in all the ways possible: draft and free agency.

    But, anyways, let me return the ball back to your side of the court. If you think they need a Center so badly, why adress it with the draft?

  9. #34
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    You're both partially right/wrong.

    Johnson is a 2.5, while most of the names DAF86 listed are 3.5's. Some of them, Johnson can probably adequately defend. The overpowering types, he probably can't.

    Ideally, the starting "SF" would be more of a 3.5, but a Walker-Johnson starting 2/3 is doable if 1) They become good enough to make it worthwhile and 2) They find a 4 similar to Gordon.

  10. #35
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    You're both partially right/wrong.

    Johnson is a 2.5, while most of the names DAF86 listed are 3.5's. Some of them, Johnson can probably adequately defend. The overpowering types, he probably can't.

    Ideally, the starting "SF" would be more of a 3.5, but a Walker-Johnson starting 2/3 is doable if 1) They become good enough to make it worthwhile and 2) They find a 4 similar to Gordon.
    Of course Johnson can play the 3. If you have a bunch of 6'4", 6'5" combo guards and no SFs, then it makes sense to play Johnson at the 3. It's less than ideal though. But if we are planning for the future we should be planning for the most ideal situations, not patches. And the ideal position for Johnson going forward is SG, not SF.

  11. #36
    fuk yo team clown Dingle Barry's Avatar
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    Main need is An athletic PF who has offense and defense game. Second would be a 6’8 SF who can play defense and hit the 3 ball. Third would be a athletic TOUGH center that can rebound and block some shots and has some outside game. Fourth would be anyone who has good handles and who can hit the 3 ball any position.
    #metu has the PF covered.

  12. #37
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    You mean Keldon? He's 6'5" on tiptoes. That's not a 3.



    Why the blatant lie son?

    Lebron 6'9"
    Paul George 6'8"
    Middleton 6'7"
    Covington 6'9"
    Ingles 6'7"
    Butler 6'7"
    Ben Simmons 6'10"
    Tatum 6'8"
    Anunoby 6'8"
    Porter Jr 6'10"

    Those are the SF of all the teams worth a .



    They have Poeltl at that position for the foreseeable future. A former lottery pick who has been posting great positive metrics ever since he got to the league. The dude is a starter level center, no matter what the "let's overreact for 2 bubble games on unsual cir stances" crowd thinks.



    They need forwards so badly that they need to adress it in all the ways possible: draft and free agency.

    But, anyways, let me return the ball back to your side of the court. If you think they need a Center so badly, why adress it with the draft?
    You say you want us to draft a tall forward in this upcoming draft but there arent many options. Vassell is a twig and wont be able to hold his own against those players you listed. Saddiq is no better than the best Gleaguer. Tyler Bey is a maybe. Deni is out of our reach unless we win the lottery.

    The best bet is to hope one of the PF prospects is mobile enough or is able to convert into your prototype SF

  13. #38
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    You say you want us to draft a tall forward in this upcoming draft but there arent many options. Vassell is a twig and wont be able to hold his own against those players you listed. Saddiq is no better than the best Gleaguer. Tyler Bey is a maybe. Deni is out of our reach unless we win the lottery.

    The best bet is to hope one of the PF prospects is mobile enough or is able to convert into your prototype SF
    dont underestimete vassel, giannis was a twig too and now he looks like a monster. Gainin some muscle is the easiest way to improve (but even murray cant do it...)

  14. #39
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    dont underestimete vassel, giannis was a twig too and now he looks like a monster. Gainin some muscle is the easiest way to improve (but even murray cant do it...)
    Ive lost hope in players gaining weight since Murray came. Players who muscle up like Giannis are rare. Also, you could tell by Vassel's frame that he doesnt look like he will gain much weight. His shoulder width is really narrow. Looks like a Tayshaun Prince body type.

    Another example of a player not gaining muscle is Kyle Anderson
    Last edited by Dejounte; 08-06-2020 at 06:57 PM.

  15. #40
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    #metu has the PF covered.
    Yeah, but who is talking about Austin?

  16. #41
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    You say you want us to draft a tall forward in this upcoming draft but there arent many options. Vassell is a twig and wont be able to hold his own against those players you listed. Saddiq is no better than the best Gleaguer. Tyler Bey is a maybe. Deni is out of our reach unless we win the lottery.

    The best bet is to hope one of the PF prospects is mobile enough or is able to convert into your prototype SF
    I really don't know who the prospects are, I'm just stating the team's main need. If there aren't any promising SF out there to be taken, then, sure, the right thing is to draft the best bailable talent, regardless of position.

  17. #42
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    You mean Keldon? He's 6'5" on tiptoes. That's not a 3.
    It's a three, it turns out.

    Why the blatant lie son?

    Lebron 6'9"
    Paul George 6'8"
    Middleton 6'7"
    Covington 6'9"
    Ingles 6'7"
    Butler 6'7"
    Ben Simmons 6'10"
    Tatum 6'8"
    Anunoby 6'8"
    Porter Jr 6'10"

    Those are the SF of all the teams worth a .
    It's not a lie. Listing players with above-average height does not disprove the claim that the average SF for a while has been 6-6ish.

    And no, when you list a guy like Porter, who plays for Chicago, you aren't just listing the SFs on good teams. Even if most SFs were 6-8 (which they aren't), that doesn't mean Johnson would struggle against them. Bowen is 6-7, and he played the position for years, even in the post-up era. You don't even have to go cheap with guys like Tony Allen to find good defenders who aren't really tall.

    They have Poeltl at that position for the foreseeable future. A former lottery pick who has been posting great positive metrics ever since he got to the league. The dude is a starter level center, no matter what the "let's overreact for 2 bubble games on unsual cir stances" crowd thinks.
    Poeltl's already on record for wanting out. While it's probable he'll start next season on the roster, I don't think you can say that's for the "foreseeable future" at all. Even if he stays, they still need a quality backup, especially with how much Jakob fouls.

    They need forwards so badly that they need to adress it in all the ways possible: draft and free agency.
    Not really. There are only so many rotation spots available. Like it or not, if DeRozan is on the team, there isn't even a spot in the rotation for an SF. I think you could totally justify signing one with the MLE anyway and having that guy push other players for minutes. But if they got like three SFs, only one would play anyway, and that's with assuming Samanic doesn't make a jump into the rotation (which I don't think is going to happen but could).

    But, anyways, let me return the ball back to your side of the court. If you think they need a Center so badly, why adress it with the draft?
    I actually said multiple times in the posts you've quoted that they need a developmental player there. You obviously don't NEED to sign a developmental player as a free agent. Basically, you want a guy on Eubanks' level but younger and with more upside. What sucks is that last year had a bunch of them in the middle of the draft, but the Spurs drafted Johnson instead. Obviously Keldon's been a good pick so far. But last year was the time to draft a young big and have for years of team control to see if you could move on from Aldridge and/or Poeltl.

  18. #43
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    You're both partially right/wrong.

    Johnson is a 2.5, while most of the names DAF86 listed are 3.5's. Some of them, Johnson can probably adequately defend. The overpowering types, he probably can't.

    Ideally, the starting "SF" would be more of a 3.5, but a Walker-Johnson starting 2/3 is doable if 1) They become good enough to make it worthwhile and 2) They find a 4 similar to Gordon.
    I basically agree with this. I think you and I personally have discussed this enough to where you probably know I want a Gordon-esque PF to guard those "3.5" players. Ideally, you have five Lebron's. But I also think a Walker/Johnson wing combo is the clearest path forward for the team. That could change if they acquire an elite talent at one of those positions. But if they got a 6-9 defensive type at 11, then yeah that guy is a PF and you keep going with the previous duo without caring about ideal position designations.

  19. #44
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    It's a three, it turns out.
    He's a guard.

    https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb...johnson-1.html

    He only plays the 3 in the Spurs because we have no other guys to play there. I guess it turns out DeRozan is a PF then.

    It's not a lie. Listing players with above-average height does not disprove the claim that the average SF for a while has been 6-6ish.
    First of all, link?

    Second, who care what the average is when all the teams that matter have SFs taller than that?

    And no, when you list a guy like Porter, who plays for Chicago, you aren't just listing the SFs on good teams
    I'm talking about Porter JR. You know, the rookie on Denver that tore our guards trying to play SF new assholes yesterday?

    Even if most SFs were 6-8 (which they aren't), that doesn't mean Johnson would struggle against them. Bowen is 6-7, and he played the position for years, even in the post-up era. You don't even have to go cheap with guys like Tony Allen to find good defenders who aren't really tall.
    You said it, Bowen was 6'7". The minimum required to play SF nowadays, imho. Not to mention he was an outlier in the sense that he was one of the greatest perimeter defenders ever.

    Poeltl's already on record for wanting out.
    Link?

    While it's probable he'll start next season on the roster, I don't think you can say that's for the "foreseeable future" at all. Even if he stays, they still need a quality backup, especially with how much Jakob fouls.

    So you would rather use a pick on a center, where we already have a starting caliber young man (not to mention a star that hasn't been traded yet, and, for all we know, never will), instead of in either forward position where we have to constantly be improvising players? Interesting reasoning. To not say completely re ed, tbh.

    Not really. There are only so many rotation spots available. Like it or not, if DeRozan is on the team, there isn't even a spot in the rotation for an SF. I think you could totally justify signing one with the MLE anyway and having that guy push other players for minutes. But if they got like three SFs, only one would play anyway, and that's with assuming Samanic doesn't make a jump into the rotation (which I don't think is going to happen but could).

    And if Aldridge and Poeltl are on the team where do you plan to play this potential drafted center of yours? The rotation at either forward position is a lot more open than at center.


    I actually said multiple times in the posts you've quoted that they need a developmental player there. You obviously don't NEED to sign a developmental player as a free agent. Basically, you want a guy on Eubanks' level but younger and with more upside. What sucks is that last year had a bunch of them in the middle of the draft, but the Spurs drafted Johnson instead. Obviously Keldon's been a good pick so far. But last year was the time to draft a young big and have for years of team control to see if you could move on from Aldridge and/or Poeltl.
    Developmental or play ready is still better to sign a forward than a center. What's with your weird fixation with bigmen son? It's 2020 COVID infested NBA, get with the times. Forwards >>>>> centers in terms of impact.

  20. #45
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    He's a guard.

    https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb...johnson-1.html

    He only plays the 3 in the Spurs because we have no other guys to play there. I guess it turns out DeRozan is a PF then.
    This is not evidence of anything. Danny Green played PF for much of his career at UNC. Also, DeRozan plays PF because that's his best position. Yes, he wouldn't start there if everyone were healthy, but he was getting minutes there during the regular regular season too.

    First of all, link?

    Second, who care what the average is when all the teams that matter have SFs taller than that?
    https://www.thehoopsgeek.com/average-nba-height/

    Because you're trying to claim that SFs ARE a certain size, and they aren't. And we've talked about why you listing players the way you have is disingenous.

    You said it, Bowen was 6'7". The minimum required to play SF nowadays, imho. Not to mention he was an outlier in the sense that he was one of the greatest perimeter defenders ever.
    He wasn't an outlier in terms of height, and he was 6-7 back when height was more important for wings than it is now.

    Link?
    Eh no. There was a whole thread on it here when he said it.

    So you would rather use a pick on a center, where we already have a starting caliber young man (not to mention a star that hasn't been traded yet, and, for all we know, never will), instead of in either forward position where we have to constantly be improvising players? Interesting reasoning. To not say completely re ed, tbh.
    Dude, are you even reading my posts or just skimming them? It's weird that you keep saying that I argued for a center over a PF. It's also dishonest to say DeRozan played SF out of necessity when Carroll literally sat on the bench most of the year because Pop didn't want to play him over guards. It's one thing to say the Spurs SHOULD play guys down a position. It's another to be so blind to the way the team works as to think it was an accident that they don't.

    And if Aldridge and Poeltl are on the team where do you plan to play this potential drafted center of yours? The rotation at either forward position is a lot more open than at center.
    It's not. You don't draft a guy with the idea that he HAS to play this year. I'd love for them to use their first pick on a PF that can play right away. But you don't get a guy later in the draft hoping to fill present holes, no matter the position. Free agency is to cover up current needs. The draft is the cover up future needs. Anyone with an ounce of foresight can see the center position is the barest on the team right now.

    Developmental or play ready is still better to sign a forward than a center. What's with your weird fixation with bigmen son? It's 2020 COVID infested NBA, get with the times. Forwards >>>>> centers in terms of impact
    You're trolling at this point...

    You need developmental players at EVERY position. Why is that so hard for you to understand? They already have developmental forwards. Right now, they have no one who projects to be on the team past next season at center. That's why they need to invest there.

  21. #46
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    That link literally says the average height for SFs is 6'7" and 1/2.

    Why would you provide that link and get it so wrong son?

  22. #47
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    This is not evidence of anything. Danny Green played PF for much of his career at UNC.
    Yeah, it is more normal to go down in positions as you make your transition from college to the NBA and you have to face, bigger, stronger folks.

    Also, DeRozan plays PF because that's his best position. Yes, he wouldn't start there if everyone were healthy, but he was getting minutes there during the regular regular season too.
    DeRozan plays PF with the Spurs because the roster construction is . This is something spur fans have been complaining for years.


    And we've talked about why you listing players the way you have is disingenous.
    How is my listing of players disingenous. I literally took the top teams in the league and just listed their starting SFs. Desingenous is saying the average SF is 6'6" when it's actually a full feet and a half taller, tbh.

    He wasn't an outlier in terms of height, and he was 6-7 back when height was more important for wings than it is now.
    I would argue that is not true.

    Eh no. There was a whole thread on it here when he said it.
    Yeah, you better not post any more links, tbh.

    Dude, are you even reading my posts or just skimming them? It's weird that you keep saying that I argued for a center over a PF. It's also dishonest to say DeRozan played SF out of necessity when Carroll literally sat on the bench most of the year because Pop didn't want to play him over guards. It's one thing to say the Spurs SHOULD play guys down a position. It's another to be so blind to the way the team works as to think it was an accident that they don't.
    Carroll is an ex-player, that's why he didn't play. And regarding "how the team works", it hasn't. All season long. Probably because they have no forwards outside of past prime Gay.

    It's not. You don't draft a guy with the idea that he HAS to play this year. I'd love for them to use their first pick on a PF that can play right away. But you don't get a guy later in the draft hoping to fill present holes, no matter the position. Free agency is to cover up current needs. The draft is the cover up future needs. Anyone with an ounce of foresight can see the center position is the barest on the team right now.
    Forward is the position of most need for now and for the future. Anyone with a pair of functioning eyes can see that.


    You're trolling at this point...

    You need developmental players at EVERY position. Why is that so hard for you to understand? They already have developmental forwards. Right now, they have no one who projects to be on the team past next season at center. That's why they need to invest there.
    No, they don't. They have a 6'9" PF that doesn't seem to be anywhere ready and probably never will (players who amount to anything real prove it on their first year. Think of Parker, Manu, Hill, Kawhi. heck, even Murray, White, Walker and Johnson. Who was the last player you remember, that the Spurs drafted, who didn't play at all in his rookie season and then became an important feature of the squad? All of the guys I listed had at least a moment of brillance in their first season.

    The other "developmental forward" you are probably referring to is Johnson, who, as already proven, would be better suited at SG than SF.
    Last edited by DAF86; 08-06-2020 at 09:30 PM.

  23. #48
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    Yeah, it is more normal to go down in positions as you make your transition from college to the NBA and you have to face, bigger, stronger folks.



    DeRozan plays PF with the Spurs because the roster construction is . This is something spur fans have been complaining for years.




    How is my listing of players disingenous. I literally took the top teams in the league and just listed their starting SFs. Desingenous is saying the average SF is 6'6" when it's actually a full feet and a half taller, tbh.



    I would argue that is not true.



    Yeah, you better not post any more links, tbh.



    Carroll is an ex-player, that's why he didn't play. And regarding "how the team works", it hasn't. All season long. Probably because they have no forwards outside of past prime Gay.



    Forward is the position of most need for now and for the future. Anyone with a pair of functioning eyes can see that.




    No, they don't. They have a 6'9" PF that doesn't seem to be anywhere ready and probably never will (players who amount to anything real prove it on their first year. Think of Parker, Manu, Hill, Kawhi. heck, even Murray, White, Walker and Johnson. Who was the last player you remember, that the Spurs drafted, who didn't play at all in his rookie season and then became an important feature of the squad? All of the guys I listed had at least a moment of brillance in their first season.

    The other "developmental forward" you are probably referring to is Johnson, who, as already proven, would be better suited at SG than SF.
    Regarding your last point:

    Spurs' use of the Gleague has never been as prominent as it has been since the last couple of years. Samanic not being "featured" this year is not an indicator of his success or failure as a future NBA player. Other things may be, sure, but not being featured isnt a reason.

  24. #49
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    Regarding your last point:

    Spurs' use of the Gleague has never been as prominent as it has been since the last couple of years. Samanic not being "featured" this year is not an indicator of his success or failure as a future NBA player. Other things may be, sure, but not being featured isnt a reason.
    White, Walker and Johnson played a lot of G-league ball but still had their moments with the main team on their rookie season, not to mention tearing up on the G-league. Samanic didn't do either.

  25. #50
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    White, Walker and Johnson played a lot of G-league ball but still had their moments with the main team on their rookie season, not to mention tearing up on the G-league. Samanic didn't do either.
    Samanic was always going to be a two year Austin project. He’s very young, not physically developed, and played a really low level of Euro ball. Year one was just weight room, and getting accustomed to the speed and verticality of American basketball. Year two, he’ll at least be co-featured with our lottery pick, and will start getting what the Spurs call vitamins. Learn the triple threat position, and how to attack from it. Learn the rocker step. Learn some back to the basket stuff.

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