NBA: WTF is going on with the defense?

[lefty]

I miss the offensive variety too, but I think I miss the rivalries even more. In the 2000s alone you had Spurs-Lakers, Spurs-Mavs, Lakers-Kings, Spurs-Suns, Pistons-Pacers. That was gold.

yep
And before that, Knicks vs Heat, Knicks vs Pacers. NY had true rivalries with those 2 teams, not with Chicago, I felt Bulls vs Knicks rivalry was a bit manufactured.

Houston and Phoenix had a nice but short lived playoff rivalry

Charlotte and Orlando could have had a nice rivalry too, but Shaq and Zo bolted from their respective teams....
Shaq and Zo, LJ and Penny, cool pinstriped jerseys... oh well

[Dirks_Finale]

I'd gladly take the early and mid 2000s where teams like the Pistons (and of course the hot-and-cold offense Spurs with their consistently great defense) did in fact exist and then you had teams like the Mavs and Kings which were exciting and fun to watch because they were the exception, but not the norm.

The Grizzlies of the early 2010s were the last such team to employ that style of basketball, and they were solid contenders for a few years. But there hasn't been a single team since.

I don't like this recent return to 80s free-for-all ball (spearheaded by the late 00s Suns and Nellie's Warriors and perverted by the Steve Kerr Warriors and since mocked around the league), and with even stricter anti-defense rules now than back then. It makes basketball just as boring as if every game across the league was 2004 Detroit Pistons vs. 2013 Memphis Grizzlies.

Yeah and I think that Grizzly team wins a ring if they had anything that resembled a closer on it. Tony Allen was a damn doberman. Somehow he rarely got talked about... They always wanted to exalt Bowen or Artest but Allen may have been better than both of them on the defensive side.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Yeah and I think that Grizzly team wins a ring if they had anything that resembled a closer on it. Tony Allen was a damn doberman. Somehow he rarely got talked about... They always wanted to exalt Bowen or Artest but Allen may have been better than both of them on the defensive side.

Trick-or-Treat Tony Allen was maybe the only player in the history of the game to give Durant legitimate fits without fouling.

[ambchang]

Nba looking to empower WNBA by imitating their style of play. Just that they are moving the defensive radius from 18 feet to 30 feet. Same style.

[HarlemHeat37]

Players are significantly more skilled than ever + NBA has tried everything it can to remove defense by calling fouls on every play and allowing offensive players the benefit of the doubt at all times. It's been much worse in the bubble because only a couple of teams are giving any effort, the rest are avoiding injury, which is the correct move. Actually, even prior to the bubble, it was evident that players and coaches have finally realized that Regular Season basketball is almost meaningless.

Defense always gets better in the playoffs, though, as we saw with the Raptors last year. Let's just hope they stop calling fouls at the same rate.

[Neo.]

Players are significantly more skilled than ever + NBA has tried everything it can to remove defense by calling fouls on every play and allowing offensive players the benefit of the doubt at all times. It's been much worse in the bubble because only a couple of teams are giving any effort, the rest are avoiding injury, which is the correct move. Actually, even prior to the bubble, it was evident that players and coaches have finally realized that Regular Season basketball is almost meaningless.

Defense always gets better in the playoffs, though, as we saw with the Raptors last year. Let's just hope they stop calling fouls at the same rate.

this is a very significant aspect as to why defense seems lesser over the past 5 years or so as well

when you have lebron spending 8 straight years in the finals and barely caring about his team's seed or getting HCA in that timeframe, compared to teams like the raptors, rockets, hawks, cavs (pre-lebron to miami), thunder and warriors (2016) playing pedal to the medal for tons of wins and high seeds yet constantly coming up empty handed, it seems the leagues interest in playing so hard in the regular season really declined

[TDfan2007]

Players are significantly more skilled than ever + NBA has tried everything it can to remove defense by calling fouls on every play and allowing offensive players the benefit of the doubt at all times. It's been much worse in the bubble because only a couple of teams are giving any effort, the rest are avoiding injury, which is the correct move. Actually, even prior to the bubble, it was evident that players and coaches have finally realized that Regular Season basketball is almost meaningless.

Defense always gets better in the playoffs, though, as we saw with the Raptors last year. Let's just hope they stop calling fouls at the same rate.

Agreed that it's a bit of both. A huge drop in physicality coupled with improved offense (especially with the use of the pull-up 3) and a laughable use of moving screens now (used to be only the superstars would get away with them) seems to have done the trick.

Harden just waltzes to the rim on the regular because guys are afraid to touch him, and no handchecking on the perimeter means he can dance on the perimeter all he wants

[lefty]

Hand checking doesn’t do anything to great players and wouldn’t affect Harden

[Dirks_Finale]

Untrue.

If the guy doing hand checking has strong enough hands...like say Kawhi or JKidd, it impedes movement long enough for defenses to read/settle and rotate over.

If it's JJ Barea hand checking someone, then sure, no impact.

Hand checking doesn’t do anything to great players and wouldn’t affect Harden

[140]

Untrue.

If the guy doing hand checking has strong enough hands...like say Kawhi or JKidd, it impedes movement long enough for defenses to read/settle and rotate over.

If it's JJ Barea hand checking someone, then sure, no impact.

well...

[Dirks_Finale]

well...

[Neo.]

Hand checking doesn’t do anything to great players and wouldn’t affect Harden

tbh people are too stupid to realize that players still handcheck a ton, and that guys like harden, kd, kawhi, kobe, steph, dame and many others have simply figured out that you can make handchecking a worthless and even bad defensive move by either doing the swingthrough, or by grabbing/hooking the hand check in a way that the ref is forced to call a legal (albeit cheap) foul. and even if the ref doesn't call a foul, by doing the hook/grab, it throws the defenders balance and position off, and pretty much puts them at the offensive players mercy

and tbh its not his fault, nor the refs fault. it was just bound to happen in time that players find loopholes in the rules, just the same way 80s/90s players made flopping become a common strategy

[lefty]

well...

do you have a video of that sequence

[lefty]

Also they called HC back in the 90s especially when someone was trying to HC Jordan

[lefty]

tbh people are too stupid to realize that players still handcheck a ton, and that guys like harden, kd, kawhi, kobe, steph, dame and many others have simply figured out that you can make handchecking a worthless and even bad defensive move by either doing the swingthrough, or by grabbing/hooking the hand check in a way that the ref is forced to call a legal (albeit cheap) foul. and even if the ref doesn't call a foul, by doing the hook/grab, it throws the defenders balance and position off, and pretty much puts them at the offensive players mercy

and tbh its not his fault, nor the refs fault. it was just bound to happen in time that players find loopholes in the rules, just the same way 80s/90s players made flopping become a common strategy

Exactly

[DMC]

Is the lack of a crowd making the players even less invested than before? Are players being less physical in order to have themselves for the playoffs?

Some of these games have been glorified layup lines and 3 point drills...most have liked like summer pickup at UCLA. SMH

Hopefully it picks up in the playoffs. I want to watch good offense beat good defense. Watching a bunch of unimpeded scoring is boring tbh

Let's see, no Tim Duncan, no Manu, no Kawhi, no Danny Green. Seems obvious enough

[FrostKing]

I was unaware anyone was watching

[Neo.]

I was unaware anyone was watching

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so funny.