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  1. #26
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    Pop should max him out then dip for the Nets.

  2. #27
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    10 mil is an overpay for a big that has no offensive presence. His defense is decent and he would have made for a valuable defensive anchor in the mid-2000s but you can't get away with playing 4 on 5 in the modern NBA. Ben Wallace style bigs are a thing of the past.
    Ben Wallace would be even better in this current NBA. Ben was super athletic in his prime and built like a truck. He would still be getting a lot of blocks and rebounds and would be great in small ball situations.

  3. #28
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    Ben Wallace would be even better in this current NBA. Ben was super athletic in his prime and built like a truck. He would still be getting a lot of blocks and rebounds and would be great in small ball situations.
    They'd intentionally foul him so much he'd be on the bench.

  4. #29
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    They'd intentionally foul him so much he'd be on the bench.
    He would still be great. There is only so much fouling you can do until you end up in the penalty. Look at what happened to the Spurs when they got carried away with Hack-A-Jordan in '15.

  5. #30
    Club Rookie of The Year DJR210's Avatar
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    Yeah.

    The issue though is on the feel-of-the-game-o-meter, Poeltl is about a 9/10 and Eubanks is about a 2/10 at this stage.
    It's gonna be interesting

  6. #31
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    I look at Poeltl as a poor man's version of Splitter while Eubanks is a poor man's version of Chris Andersen. None of them should be getting starter money.

  7. #32
    Believe. Down Under's Avatar
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    Not a bad comparison, tbh. Although...

    1) Bogut was still able to do Bogut/Poeltl things after his Warriors days and could barely get any contract offers.
    2) Bogut hasn't signed a big contract in about a decade so can't use him as a direct comp to Poeltl.
    3) If Warriors Bogut was a free agent today, I don't think he makes more than ~$8 million at most.
    Possibly, but Bogut looked pretty washed (not moving that well) when he played in the NBL down here in 2018 (even though he was the MVP ) - he had the knee injuries during the 2016 finals, then broke his leg pretty bad the start of the next season with Cavs. Agree RE how long ago the contract was, but I still think he would have decent value today as a rim running big.

  8. #33
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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  9. #34
    Veteran Spursfanfromafar's Avatar
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    I think the more important question for the Spurs is to whether or not to move from the Demar-Lamarcus veteran core. If Demar declines his option and becomes a free agent, then there is a domino effect from there ..if not, then the Spurs must think of trading Aldridge for a rebounding PF or a long SF and retain Poeltl. While Aldridge is really good at what he does, he doesn't fit the guard centric roster we have and is not the guy to have during a youth movement as well.

    Demar has proved that he can gel well with the younger lot and allows them to grow. Aldridge has expanded his game but he is also too old now and too slow to defend at the perimeter.

    Poeltl is valuable as a rim protecting, screen setting, pick and roll big. He needs to add some more polish to his finishing and he will max out as a Tyson Chandler. Eubanks can back him up.

  10. #35
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    I think the more important question for the Spurs is to whether or not to move from the Demar-Lamarcus veteran core. If Demar declines his option and becomes a free agent, then there is a domino effect from there ..if not, then the Spurs must think of trading Aldridge for a rebounding PF or a long SF and retain Poeltl. While Aldridge is really good at what he does, he doesn't fit the guard centric roster we have and is not the guy to have during a youth movement as well.

    Demar has proved that he can gel well with the younger lot and allows them to grow. Aldridge has expanded his game but he is also too old now and too slow to defend at the perimeter.

    Poeltl is valuable as a rim protecting, screen setting, pick and roll big. He needs to add some more polish to his finishing and he will max out as a Tyson Chandler. Eubanks can back him up.
    Anybody knows for sure when is the deadline for DDR for exercising or not his player option? Its before or after the lottery and before or after the draft? I also think al, team startegies for next season will depend on his choice so the timing will be extremely important to comprehend the future choices of our FO....

  11. #36
    Believe.
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    Poeltl's worth should be 8-12 million. If necessary I would slightly overpay for him, say 3y/42 to keep the young core together. Why? Poeltl fits perfectly with their style of play and the young guards benefit from Poeltl on defense as their anchor, but more so on offense (screen setting, rolling). If I were the Spurs I wouldn't want to loose a center with his skillset.

    A 3 year contract also allow them to draft & develop a young center for the future. If Poeltl gets better within these 3 years, great for the Spurs! If not, the young center should be ready to start for them and Poeltl leaves or takes a new contract for less money.
    A 3 year contract also means his contract would be off the books when Keldon & Samanic are due for an extension.

    What are the other options?
    1) LMA stays. Why should the Spurs keep him on the roster and why would LMA want to stay in SA? He doesn't fit IMO and the Spurs aren't making the playoffs next season anyway. Giving him a new contract after this season would be dumb, so they should trade him for assets now or no later than the trade deadline.
    2) Eubanks. I really like him, but he's a backup-center and needs more time. Should Poeltl leave after his 3 year contract ends Eubanks can play the backup.

  12. #37
    Veteran cd021's Avatar
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    Ben Wallace would be even better in this current NBA. Ben was super athletic in his prime and built like a truck. He would still be getting a lot of blocks and rebounds and would be great in small ball situations.
    Yeah, I don't agree. Ben was a stellar shot blocker and rebounder but his strength allowed him to defend players like Shaq and Duncan one on on. He'd have no chance guarding out of the paint in today's NBA.

  13. #38
    Believe.
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    The final complicating factor that needs to be addressed is that Poeltl doesn’t sound like he’ll be happy to return to San Antonio if he’ll be coming off the bench. In an interview during the stoppage, Poeltl made it clear he wasn’t thrilled by his lack of minutes this season and that he wants to be a starter going forward.
    That stance by Poeltl might force the Spurs to either commit to Poeltl as a starter or prepare to let him leave. If he’ll truly be unhappy coming off the bench and finds a team willing to pay him and start him, Poeltl could sign an offer sheet and publicly announce that he doesn’t want the Spurs to match it. That could get messy — and it’d be the risk of allowing him to set his own market.
    Some things have to be clarified. Poeltl NEVER said that he demands to start. In the interview with the Austrian APA, when he talked about this stuff, he said that he isn't happy with his playing time. He didn't expect to start, but to increase his minutes every season. And he was very self-critical: That it's on him to earn it and that he expected more from himself (!).

    He also said that he likes SA and the organization, but for his development it wouldn't be good to play another year under similar conditions (means: 16-18 mpg). Poeltl would be happy to return to SA if he played 22+ mpg. If not, he surely would prefer an other destination.

  14. #39
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    Poeltl's worth should be 8-12 million.
    Sounds like a lot for a filler guy.

    1) LMA stays. Why should the Spurs keep him on the roster and why would LMA want to stay in SA? He doesn't fit IMO and the Spurs aren't making the playoffs next season anyway. Giving him a new contract after this season would be dumb, so they should trade him for assets now or no later than the trade deadline.
    They barely missed the playoffs this year (and might've made it had Murray not messed it up). The idea that they'd be worse next year with a high pick, no Forbes and the development of the younger players doesn't sit right. Certainly, Aldridge is the best big on the team, and if he wants to sign and extension, it makes sense to listen. The dude's a HoFer still playing at a high level. He's also a local player who's been the engine of the team for years now. If he wants to stay, you let him.

    2) Eubanks. I really like him, but he's a backup-center and needs more time. Should Poeltl leave after his 3 year contract ends Eubanks can play the backup.
    If Poeltl leaves, the team will have to sign a center to compete with Eubanks and/or draft a center who can already play NBA minutes. I'm a strong proponent of them drafting a center anyway, but if everyone stays, that player would likely push Drew off the team.

    But 3) Just sign someone else -- it's a real option. The reason why Poeltl's contract isn't slated to be as high as you are stating is that the center market is pretty saturated every year. For half that money, they can find a good player. In a normal year, there'd be an issue with using the MLE, but because the Spurs may not even use the MLE this year due to tax issues, using it instead of Poeltl actually works. It's a pretty decent list: https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/center/ and the team can probably find one of those guys who'd agree to the LLE even if they have an MLE target.

    You seem to really like Poeltl despite trying to downplay that. That's whatever -- he's not the worst player to like. But it's dissonant that you think both that he's worth almost twice the market value of non-star centers AND that he'd only be a stop gap to a young center the team develops. If the team isn't contending anyway, why not just not sign Poeltl, sign a cheap meh guy and then develop a young center? If LMA should be traded, why shouldn't the Spurs be looking to get value from Poeltl too, since he's apparently worth so much on the open market? And it's not like if LMA is traded, a center is likely to be coming back in the exchange anyway.

  15. #40
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    Yeah, I don't agree. Ben was a stellar shot blocker and rebounder but his strength allowed him to defend players like Shaq and Duncan one on on. He'd have no chance guarding out of the paint in today's NBA.
    People just don’t understand the sea change that has happened in the NBA, and to be honest, it took me maybe two years What did it for me was when Houston salary dumped Clint Capela. He was an athletic big, not some lumbering dinosaur, and Golden State played him off the floor in the playoffs.

  16. #41
    Veteran offset formation's Avatar
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    He's getting way more than that from whoever IMO. Elite rim protectors who can move their feet when they get switched onto guards on the perimeter, who also make good decisions & have good timing in PnRs are getting paid $10mil+.
    Who is this elite rim protector that makes good decisions guy that you're referencing?

    Not the guy that got his pushed in in very limited minutes because of foul trouble vs Jokic and Embiid, surely.

    If you want big boy dollars, you've gotta take big boy minutes and big boy centers.

    3 yrs 15 is the best I do. If he takes it, good for both sides.

  17. #42
    2 Doors Down BillMc's Avatar
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    Have we all given up on Metu?

  18. #43
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    Merely being a good rim-protector isn't good enough in the NBA nowadays because teams shoot so many jumpers. You have to be switchable. I wouldn't go so far as to say you have to be able to really stay with PGs, but you have to be able to follow the gameplan and force the shooter off the line and in the direction your team expects. A lot of that is more mental than folks here are saying. Ben's defensive IQ was world-class, and he had above-average mobility in his day. I doubt he'd be the borderline HoFer in the modern era, but he'd probably still be on a roster. The biggest issue is he wouldn't be scoring enough to make up for his lessened defensive effectiveness.

    People overrate the importance of shooting for bigs. It's always helpful, and not being able to shoot certain caps a guy's ceiling. But vertical spacing is also important, and a guy who runs hard and finishes opens up gaps for shooters. Like, I think DeJuan Blair would still be an offensive force in the modern NBA (don't get too excited @play blair -- I mean the young version of him). He was a strong roller, tenacious rebounder and excellent finisher. He's struggle to play the four in the modern NBA, but the deemphasis on centers would actually help him. Still, his defense would be doodoo. Maybe if he'd had ACLs, he'd've been a bit more mobile. Whatever.

    Poeltl, yeah. He's just not aggressive enough on offense, and I'm not sure he has any potential there. Even when he overwhelms a team, it feels more like luck. He's just a lunch-pail player on that end. And it's not like his a DPOY either. He's a great backup center and an okay starter. They just need to not get confused and think he's a sure-fire starter or that he provides a ton of value over replacement-level players. A lot of young guys will be looking for contracts in the upcoming off-seasons if they want to keep a lot of them, they can't afford to overpay any of them.

  19. #44
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    Have we all given up on Metu?
    I never really loved him, but I could see PatFO still liking him. They apparently were really secretive about scouting him, and they gave him a better deal than most second-rounders get. I think they keep him past his guarantee date, but they might cut him after that. They seem to be in love with dead money nowadays.

  20. #45
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    Have we all given up on Metu?
    Metu was drafted, Eubanks was not, and E signed a two way contract. In the two years since, E has made clear and definite progress, and is the better NBA prospect. He looks like he belongs on the floor, and and metu really still doesn’t. I’d dump him unless there was no other way to put together a 13 man roster.

  21. #46
    Veteran r0drig0lac's Avatar
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    25/4 or GTFO

  22. #47
    Believe.
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    If the team isn't contending anyway, why not just not sign Poeltl, sign a cheap meh guy and then develop a young center? If LMA should be traded, why shouldn't the Spurs be looking to get value from Poeltl too, since he's apparently worth so much on the open market?
    These are options I also thought about.

    They barely missed the playoffs this year (and might've made it had Murray not messed it up). The idea that they'd be worse next year with a high pick, no Forbes and the development of the younger players doesn't sit right.
    With Golden State back to full strength & Phoenix rising, also New Orleans with Zion getting better, I would wonder if they had a chance.

  23. #48
    Don't stop believin' Dex's Avatar
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    It would be a shame to give up on Poeltl this early. Considering DeMar's time in San Antonio is probably limited, he is one of two assets that Spurs got from the Kawhi trade that they can use to build for the future (with the other being Johnson).

    He's never gonna be a star player but I like the Splitter/Oberto comparisons. He was a 9th overall pick, and I do think that centers like him have a place in tday's NBA. I also don't support the Spurs going micro-ball like Houston or Boston has, which means you have to have at least one "traditional" center on the team.

    Yes, they need to focus on size and athleticism on the wings (a defensive SF or mobile PF), but I think that would elevate Poeltl's game since he wouldn't have to be plugging up defensive leaks all the time.

    I agree that the Spurs shouldn't break the bank for him, and hopefully the market will support that. But I would hate to look back in a few years and say all we got out of giving up Kawhi and Green was KJ.
    Last edited by Dex; 08-18-2020 at 09:02 AM.

  24. #49
    Veteran tbdog's Avatar
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    Merely being a good rim-protector isn't good enough in the NBA nowadays because teams shoot so many jumpers. You have to be switchable. I wouldn't go so far as to say you have to be able to really stay with PGs, but you have to be able to follow the gameplan and force the shooter off the line and in the direction your team expects. A lot of that is more mental than folks here are saying. Ben's defensive IQ was world-class, and he had above-average mobility in his day. I doubt he'd be the borderline HoFer in the modern era, but he'd probably still be on a roster. The biggest issue is he wouldn't be scoring enough to make up for his lessened defensive effectiveness.

    People overrate the importance of shooting for bigs. It's always helpful, and not being able to shoot certain caps a guy's ceiling. But vertical spacing is also important, and a guy who runs hard and finishes opens up gaps for shooters. Like, I think DeJuan Blair would still be an offensive force in the modern NBA (don't get too excited @play blair -- I mean the young version of him). He was a strong roller, tenacious rebounder and excellent finisher. He's struggle to play the four in the modern NBA, but the deemphasis on centers would actually help him. Still, his defense would be doodoo. Maybe if he'd had ACLs, he'd've been a bit more mobile. Whatever.

    Poeltl, yeah. He's just not aggressive enough on offense, and I'm not sure he has any potential there. Even when he overwhelms a team, it feels more like luck. He's just a lunch-pail player on that end. And it's not like his a DPOY either. He's a great backup center and an okay starter. They just need to not get confused and think he's a sure-fire starter or that he provides a ton of value over replacement-level players. A lot of young guys will be looking for contracts in the upcoming off-seasons if they want to keep a lot of them, they can't afford to overpay any of them.
    I actually think shooting bigs is pretty potent. I explained a while back that if you can't block a jump shot, it's pretty much an open shot these days. You can't crowd the shooter. You must allow him to land. Brook Lopez is 7ft and will shoot 5 ft behind the line. You have to guard that with size. And if your out there guarding that, who in the is protecting the rim in the league where you can't handcheck guards.

    This is why I think Mills has regressed. He can still put the ball in the basket but players now just shoot over him, more so than ever. And he can't block a jump shot then and he won't now. Same as Forbes.

  25. #50
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    Anybody knows for sure when is the deadline for DDR for exercising or not his player option? Its before or after the lottery and before or after the draft? I also think al, team startegies for next season will depend on his choice so the timing will be extremely important to comprehend the future choices of our FO....
    I thought it was one week from his last game played?

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