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  1. #51
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    Tyler Hero didn’t help win a Championship. Tim was plugged into a team that had already been to the WCFs, and there will never be another HOF player ready to dominate from year 1. There isn’t a sure fire generational player, but if the Spurs do this, they feel that there is a possible one.
    I'm speaking from the Warriors perspective.

  2. #52
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    If they end up drafting Avdija over Wiseman, what does that say to you? They wouldn't trade Wiggins in that scenario.
    You keep looking at this as a purely on the court decision, but it isn’t. They are in tax . Their bill will be $3.50 for every dollar over. Their payroll for next year is $148M. For the following year, it’s $158M. Those numbers don’t include pick #2. The salary for that pick is $9M, but the cost is $9M+3.5*$9M, or $40m...in year one. Even taking LMAs salary back, they save money next year, and save huge money the year after.

  3. #53
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    I'm speaking from the Warriors perspective.
    I simply addressed each of your points.
    Last edited by exstatic; 11-03-2020 at 09:45 PM.

  4. #54
    Believe.
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    Wiseman is closer to Jaxson Hayes than he is to Deandre Ayton. Still extremely raw. He could be all defensive type center but I doubt he can anchor an offense, poor passer and non existent footwork in the paint. Don't rely on the games he played in college three of those are against very bad teams and the only 1 good team he faced he got into foul trouble and barely scored until garbage time.

  5. #55
    Believe. PhantomDashCam's Avatar
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    Wiseman is closer to Jaxson Hayes than he is to Deandre Ayton. Still extremely raw. He could be all defensive type center but I doubt he can anchor an offense, poor passer and non existent footwork in the paint. Don't rely on the games he played in college three of those are against very bad teams and the only 1 good team he faced he got into foul trouble and barely scored until garbage time.
    There in lies the intrigue. Scouts are split on him. I'm in the believer camp. If he had played more games in college, I don't think there would even be trade conversations about him. He just wouldn't be available.
    Now he may not pan out. However, whenever are you going to even have the remote chance to grab somebody with his profile - Athletic, Intelligent (Supposed over 4.0 GPA), Driven - without winning the lottery?
    His floor may be Deandre Jordan, with decent FT %. Even so, that is something the current Spurs have never had and is extremely valuable. And again, that may just be his floor.
    Last edited by PhantomDashCam; 11-03-2020 at 11:56 PM. Reason: Mistyped

  6. #56
    Peace! bluebellmaniac's Avatar
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    There in lies the intrigue. Scouts are split on him. I'm in the believer camp. If he had played more games in college, I don't think there would even be trade conversations about him. He just wouldn't be available.
    Now he may not pan out. However, whenever are you going to even have the remote chance to grab somebody with his profile - Athletic, Intelligent (Supposed over 4.0 GPA), Driven - without winning the lottery?
    His floor may be Deandre Jordan, with decent FT %. Even so, that is something the Spurs have never had and is extremely valuable. And again, that may just be his floor.
    Something we've never had? We've had a guy named Tim Duncan and a guy named David Robinson.

  7. #57
    Believe. PhantomDashCam's Avatar
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    Something we've never had? We've had a guy named Tim Duncan and a guy named David Robinson.
    My apologies. Had meant to type - current Spurs have had. Meant no disrespect to TD or 5-0.

  8. #58
    Veteran Sugus's Avatar
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    There in lies the intrigue. Scouts are split on him. I'm in the believer camp. If he had played more games in college, I don't think there would even be trade conversations about him. He just wouldn't be available.
    Now he may not pan out. However, whenever are you going to even have the remote chance to grab somebody with his profile - Athletic, Intelligent (Supposed over 4.0 GPA), Driven - without winning the lottery?
    His floor may be Deandre Jordan, with decent FT %. Even so, that is something the current Spurs have never had and is extremely valuable. And again, that may just be his floor.
    I agree, I'm on the believer camp too. At the very least, I think that out of all the prospects on this year's top crop of draft picks, Wiseman is the one whose question marks are the least worrying. The fact that he barely played benefits a team that wants to trade up, since he hasn't truly shown his value. You don't "lose" the athletic ability, and physical prowess, just because you haven't been playing college basketball. I've seen him training, and would love for the Spurs to make a move for him. We need someone with his tools on this team so badly...

  9. #59
    Believe. D-Robinson 50 fan's Avatar
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    I'm also in the Wiseman believer group. Lol.

    I think barring injuries at worse he would be an athletic rim running, rim protector and rebounder who actually isn't awful at shooting free throws. Damn near every team (the teams that don't need it already have a guy) needs at least one of those types of players. That's his floor!! Lol.

    He actually showed in high school, practice videos and the couple of NCAA games he played in that he might have a 15 foot jumper also.

    I know the odds of drafting him or Okongwu are low for us but if we could get one of those guys that would be nice.

  10. #60
    Veteran cd021's Avatar
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    His floor seems to be a better DeAndre Jordan and his ceiling is probably peak Dwight but much bigger and a better free throw shooter- that's probably a 20 ppg, 10 rpg, 3 bpg type of center.

  11. #61
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    His peak is probably more so Ayton (who hasn't reached his obviously, but probably tops out as an All-Star candidate) than Howard.

    Obviously the game has changed a lot in the past decade, but his peak was top 5 (and briefly consensus 2nd best) player.

    Either way, he wouldn't solve the Spurs' need for an offensive centerpiece.

  12. #62
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    The more buzz I keep hearing about this kid potentially being a Spur, the more I want it to happen. I saw earlier today that NBADraft.net has him coming to us at 11. With that being said, I know mock drafts are almost never accurate, and I know Wiseman won't make it past #3.

  13. #63
    Starter off the bench Uriel's Avatar
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    The more buzz I keep hearing about this kid potentially being a Spur, the more I want it to happen. I saw earlier today that NBADraft.net has him coming to us at 11. With that being said, I know mock drafts are almost never accurate, and I know Wiseman won't make it past #3.
    I saw that too. Any reason why? I can’t imagine him falling outside the top 5, let alone #11.

  14. #64
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    I saw that too. Any reason why? I canít imagine him falling outside the top 5, let alone #11.
    The only reason I can think of for some people believing he'll fall outside the top 5 is because of his small sample size, having played only 3 games in college and it being a whole year since the last time he played. Even with that being the case, his potential alone will be enough to keep him in the top 5.

  15. #65
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    I appears that Minnesota might ignore his wishes and take him anyway.

    https://nba.nbcsports.com/2020/11/08...ith-no-1-pick/

  16. #66
    You Are Not Worthy ZeusWillJudge's Avatar
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    Something we've never had? We've had a guy named Tim Duncan and a guy named David Robinson.

    Those guys were no DeAndre Jordans.

  17. #67
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    It's hard for me to see Minnesota taking Wiseman unless they are planning on moving KAT. I don't think they will do that so I think this is just a smokescreen.

  18. #68
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    The Lakers play twin towers all the time. And KAT shoots as much 3s as Davis, if not more. In my opinion, they should draft Wiseman.

  19. #69
    Veteran Sugus's Avatar
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    The Lakers play twin towers all the time. And KAT shoots as much 3s as Davis, if not more. In my opinion, they should draft Wiseman.
    I don't really see the fit being there to play Wiseman and KAT on the court at the same time. AD makes it work due to his huge versatility and defensive presence, where even as a 4 he's still effective and can hang around on the perimeter while McGee or Howard take the more traditional, banging-on-the-post or rebounding big man roles. But KAT is an awful defender, even as a 5, and taking him out to the perimeter to guard 4's might not work out nearly as well. I don't see Wiseman playing the 4 either. So while yes, KAT shoots a lot of 3's (definitely more than AD, both in FGA and in %, he's probably the best shooting big man in the game right now despite his flaws), I can't see him and Wiseman working out at all on the court, especially given the rest of Minny's roster.

    Having said that, I don't disagree that Minny might do well to draft Wiseman. Just not to keep him - trade him to Charlotte on draft night, for example, or any other team that's desperate for him. Ironically, it seems Wiseman's low amount of games played and unknown-ness are doing him more good than bad, in this mediocre top draft class.

  20. #70
    Remember Cherokee Parks The Truth #6's Avatar
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  21. #71
    You Are Not Worthy ZeusWillJudge's Avatar
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    That report is almost a year old, and it paints a terrible picture of Wiseman. And a lot of it is just facts. In two years of Nike EYBL, I think Wiseman shot 60% from the FT line, which is a real problem for a guy who has to live in the box at this point in his development. He has virtually no shooting range right now. Anybody who has been in basketball as long as he has will get one to drop now and then, but if he puts one up from outside about 5 feet, you can pretty much count on it not going in.

    Bottom line, people keep saying that old school centers are no longer desirable, and when you look at what he actually does right now he's about as old school as it gets. I know he drops out and runs, but he's not going to get by with much of that in the NBA. I still think he's going fairly high, just on upside. But if he doesn't develop some range, he will have to be on just the right team to get value from that pick.

  22. #72
    Remember Cherokee Parks The Truth #6's Avatar
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    That report is almost a year old, and it paints a terrible picture of Wiseman. And a lot of it is just facts. In two years of Nike EYBL, I think Wiseman shot 60% from the FT line, which is a real problem for a guy who has to live in the box at this point in his development. He has virtually no shooting range right now. Anybody who has been in basketball as long as he has will get one to drop now and then, but if he puts one up from outside about 5 feet, you can pretty much count on it not going in.

    Bottom line, people keep saying that old school centers are no longer desirable, and when you look at what he actually does right now he's about as old school as it gets. I know he drops out and runs, but he's not going to get by with much of that in the NBA. I still think he's going fairly high, just on upside. But if he doesn't develop some range, he will have to be on just the right team to get value from that pick.
    Good points. Granted this was just one review, but I generally trust their site, and it paints a terrible picture as you say. Taking on Wiggins to move up to draft Wiseman sounds like a bad idea. If there was someone else at #2 that they really coveted, then that might be more useful. But just in writing that, I struggle to see the point of taking on expensive garbage for a huge longshot. This draft is about depth. As counterintuitive as it sounds, I'd rather trade LMA to get additional later picks if it can be done without taking on an awful contract.

  23. #73
    You Are Not Worthy ZeusWillJudge's Avatar
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    Good points. Granted this was just one review, but I generally trust their site, and it paints a terrible picture as you say. Taking on Wiggins to move up to draft Wiseman sounds like a bad idea. If there was someone else at #2 that they really coveted, then that might be more useful. But just in writing that, I struggle to see the point of taking on expensive garbage for a huge longshot. This draft is about depth. As counterintuitive as it sounds, I'd rather trade LMA to get additional later picks if it can be done without taking on an awful contract.


    Stepien, in general, has some pretty good articles and analysis. It's still different people, and some are better than others. The one who wrote that article is a pretty smart guy and a law school grad, so he's not just some bonehead with a keyboard. If you click on his name, you'll see his articles on some other guys like Desmond Bane, Killian Tillie, etc. Some of the stuff he said about Wiseman is pretty hard to argue with. He only played a few college games, but he was pretty well known from the Nike youth league.

    I don't hate Wiggins as much as a lot of people here do, but his contract is toxic, and I would really like to see the Spurs finally get out of cap . Taking on that contract isn't a good way to accomplish that. I don't hate Wiseman, but I would hate to see the Spurs take on Wiggins' contract to get him.

  24. #74
    Veteran R. DeMurre's Avatar
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    I rewatched a bunch of Wiseman videos last night and the thing that stood out to me most was his rebounding, especially in traffic. He routinely uses that wingspan to grab rebounds that seem far outside of his proximity, reaching over even opponents with good position in the paint to pull them in. That's always a nice skill, but especially valuable now in the three point shooting era.

    It seems there is a bit of Scouting Fatigue going on recently on quite a few websites I've look at. Whereas I saw lots of David Robinson and Kevin Garnett comps earlier, now there's more DeAndre Jordan and Hassan Whiteside. It would make sense if there were new games to look at, but there aren't. But to be honest, Hassan Whiteside with a good at ude and a higher BB IQ would be pretty imposing. In almost every interview I've seen, Wiseman talks about defense-- he brings it up, which is nice. I've watched multiple Obi Toppin interviews where he never mentions defense once, and only addresses it when specifically asked. I find that disturbing, considering every scouting report on him labels him a poor defender.

  25. #75
    Believe. PhantomDashCam's Avatar
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    Good points. Granted this was just one review, but I generally trust their site, and it paints a terrible picture as you say. Taking on Wiggins to move up to draft Wiseman sounds like a bad idea. If there was someone else at #2 that they really coveted, then that might be more useful. But just in writing that, I struggle to see the point of taking on expensive garbage for a huge longshot. This draft is about depth. As counterintuitive as it sounds, I'd rather trade LMA to get additional later picks if it can be done without taking on an awful contract.
    I concur, in the fact being if you view the risk is too high, the entry fee too steep - avoid at all costs.
    But if you’re in the believer camp, you’re betting on a franchise changing talent who bottoms out as a high level starter in an undervalued position; sacrificing financial flexibility without unloading future draft assets.

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