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  1. #76
    Veteran The Truth #6's Avatar
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    I concur, in the fact being if you view the risk is too high, the entry fee too steep - avoid at all costs.
    But if you’re in the believer camp, you’re betting on a franchise changing talent who bottoms out as a high level starter in an undervalued position; sacrificing financial flexibility without unloading future draft assets.
    It's definitely a polarizing situation, because getting a #2 pick sounds amazing in a vacuum. I'd rather have 3 picks between 11-20 then just the #2. I'd love to get the bpa at 11 and then Tyler Bey and Tyrese Maxey. Obviously, that's too many players to handle in one year, not to mention whoever we would get back in a trade, but I think the Spurs have an opportunity with potential trades with both LMA and DD and I would love for them to maximize it. We aren't getting any star back with those potential trades (unless you consider Wiggins) and so I think the Spurs need to accept the reality of this draft and what opportunities we have as well as what path lies ahead.

  2. #77
    D up! exstatic's Avatar
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    If the Spurs make the trade for Wiggins and #2, it’s because they’re very bullish on someone who’s likely to be there. The Spurs aren’t known for taking huge risks, or doing dumb stuff with first rounders that they pick for themselves.

  3. #78
    Veteran The Truth #6's Avatar
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    If the Spurs make the trade for Wiggins and #2, it’s because they’re very bullish on someone who’s likely to be there. The Spurs aren’t known for taking huge risks, or doing dumb stuff with first rounders that they pick for themselves.
    What's also interesting to me is that the Young Holts seem to be onboard with taking back salary if these trade rumors are to be believed. On the other hand, the Spurs are accustomed to such a high degree of smoke and mirrors on draft day that these trade rumors (as they often are with regarding the Spurs) are either not legitimate or not done sincerely.

  4. #79
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    If the Spurs make the trade for Wiggins and #2, it’s because they’re very bullish on someone who’s likely to be there. The Spurs aren’t known for taking huge risks, or doing dumb stuff with first rounders that they pick for themselves.
    All but 1 player will be there at #2.....

  5. #80
    Veteran Sugus's Avatar
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    That report is almost a year old, and it paints a terrible picture of Wiseman. And a lot of it is just facts. In two years of Nike EYBL, I think Wiseman shot 60% from the FT line, which is a real problem for a guy who has to live in the box at this point in his development. He has virtually no shooting range right now. Anybody who has been in basketball as long as he has will get one to drop now and then, but if he puts one up from outside about 5 feet, you can pretty much count on it not going in.

    Bottom line, people keep saying that old school centers are no longer desirable, and when you look at what he actually does right now he's about as old school as it gets. I know he drops out and runs, but he's not going to get by with much of that in the NBA. I still think he's going fairly high, just on upside. But if he doesn't develop some range, he will have to be on just the right team to get value from that pick.
    It's a good report, for sure, but I didn't think it painted as bleak of a picture as you took from it. It highlights how raw Wiseman is, and the tools that could make him a significant impact player. I don't think anyone is expecting him to cross people off the dribble or be nailing 3 pointers like KAT does - he's traditional in that sense. But his athleticism makes him much more valuable than Poeltl-style "traditional" centers, and both his offensive and defensive rebounding are also extremely likely to translate, and be an asset in this era of long-distance bombing. I definitely agree with other commenters that it's a Believers Vs Non Believers thing right now, with so many question marks surrounding Wiseman, especially in whether he's grown/evolved his game in the time off college/pandemic, and what it looks like now.

    It's a major risk drafting him, to be sure. But it's also the kind of move that could make the Spurs actual contenders in the near future, instead of endlessly tanking or mediocrity. I'd much rather they try, and fail (we can always tank next season and the next one - even having traded for Wiseman), than shy away from a trade just to preserve useless cap space for '21, or worse, trade down and get a team full of role-players with nobody to step up and be "the guy" (maybe Keldon could develop into that role; we don't know for now, and either way it won't be enough with just him).

    E: Also, if there's one team that can get value out of Wiseman, it's the Spurs for sure. The cliché of Timmy training every big man the Spurs pick into a franchise player is overblown, but there's truth to it. The fact that Wiseman needs to add post moves, clean up footwork, be more consistent in his shooting form, learn fade aways and midrange moves... Screams Spurs pick to me.

  6. #81
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    All but 1 player will be there at #2.....
    You just don’t get insight like this anywhere else.

  7. #82
    You Are Not Worthy ZeusWillJudge's Avatar
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    It's a good report, for sure, but I didn't think it painted as bleak of a picture as you took from it.

    I'm just talking here - I'm really not in the mood to fight with anyone. I had read that report shortly after it was posted, and I'll tell you what I saw in that sort of synopsis section at the top. (I had to re-type it since it was an image file - I got most of the words.) If you look, even the positive things are sort of ass-backwards negatives. Like where it says he's not a shooter right now - but could become one. That last part didn't really distract me from the "not a shooter" part.

    Not a shooter right now, but there is reason to buy shot due to form. Not a good passer, clogs paint and has poor spacing feel (doesn’tmove out to open up passing lanes), questionable decision maker (andturnover prone in past with poor shot selection in HS/AAU)… gazellein straight line and has vertical pop when he has time to load… bu takes him time to load. … Questionable shot selection going backto EYBL – need to keep him in the box until he is able to develop. Average hands – misses contested rebounds and passes. Not aself-creator.


    That may not all be strictly accurate, but you can't get around the shooting. I've seen a chart and it's bleak. But assume it's fairly accurate - if you put it all together, he's got to develop some range or he's pretty one-dimensional. And being one-dimensional is a big hill to climb in the New NBA. I'm sure he could learn, but we can say that about nearly all of them until they've been there at least a few years. So like I said - I might throw the #2 pick at him, but I wouldn't throw the #2 pick PLUS Wiggins' terrible contract at him.

    I'm really getting anxious to see how the actual FO's rate some of these guys.

  8. #83
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    I'm just talking here - I'm really not in the mood to fight with anyone. I had read that report shortly after it was posted, and I'll tell you what I saw in that sort of synopsis section at the top. (I had to re-type it since it was an image file - I got most of the words.) If you look, even the positive things are sort of ass-backwards negatives. Like where it says he's not a shooter right now - but could become one. That last part didn't really distract me from the "not a shooter" part.

    Not a shooter right now, but there is reason to buy shot due to form. Not a good passer, clogs paint and has poor spacing feel (doesn’tmove out to open up passing lanes), questionable decision maker (andturnover prone in past with poor shot selection in HS/AAU)… gazellein straight line and has vertical pop when he has time to load… bu takes him time to load. … Questionable shot selection going backto EYBL – need to keep him in the box until he is able to develop. Average hands – misses contested rebounds and passes. Not aself-creator.


    That may not all be strictly accurate, but you can't get around the shooting. I've seen a chart and it's bleak. But assume it's fairly accurate - if you put it all together, he's got to develop some range or he's pretty one-dimensional. And being one-dimensional is a big hill to climb in the New NBA. I'm sure he could learn, but we can say that about nearly all of them until they've been there at least a few years. So like I said - I might throw the #2 pick at him, but I wouldn't throw the #2 pick PLUS Wiggins' terrible contract at him.

    I'm really getting anxious to see how the actual FO's rate some of these guys.
    We aren't going to see that lol.

    I wish.

    My proudest moment would be is if Jalen Smith + Mason Jones were on top of their draft board too.

  9. #84
    Veteran The Truth #6's Avatar
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    It's a good report, for sure, but I didn't think it painted as bleak of a picture as you took from it. It highlights how raw Wiseman is, and the tools that could make him a significant impact player. I don't think anyone is expecting him to cross people off the dribble or be nailing 3 pointers like KAT does - he's traditional in that sense. But his athleticism makes him much more valuable than Poeltl-style "traditional" centers, and both his offensive and defensive rebounding are also extremely likely to translate, and be an asset in this era of long-distance bombing. I definitely agree with other commenters that it's a Believers Vs Non Believers thing right now, with so many question marks surrounding Wiseman, especially in whether he's grown/evolved his game in the time off college/pandemic, and what it looks like now.

    It's a major risk drafting him, to be sure. But it's also the kind of move that could make the Spurs actual contenders in the near future, instead of endlessly tanking or mediocrity. I'd much rather they try, and fail (we can always tank next season and the next one - even having traded for Wiseman), than shy away from a trade just to preserve useless cap space for '21, or worse, trade down and get a team full of role-players with nobody to step up and be "the guy" (maybe Keldon could develop into that role; we don't know for now, and either way it won't be enough with just him).

    E: Also, if there's one team that can get value out of Wiseman, it's the Spurs for sure. The cliché of Timmy training every big man the Spurs pick into a franchise player is overblown, but there's truth to it. The fact that Wiseman needs to add post moves, clean up footwork, be more consistent in his shooting form, learn fade aways and midrange moves... Screams Spurs pick to me.
    I know it is counter-intuitive to want to trade down, but your example of Keldon somewhat reinforces my point: good players sometimes drop way too far. And my other point: some players who have size get overhyped and picked way too high. I think Tyrese has some potential to be a star. Not a lot, but who does in this draft, and that is just one example, and, granted, my subjective opinion. I would rather take multiple attempts at finding talent then going all in on a guy that I don't think will be a star and will take too much time to develop, at which point he will probably be leaving anyway.
    Last edited by The Truth #6; 11-09-2020 at 07:10 PM.

  10. #85
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    I know it is counter-intuitive to want to trade down, but you're example of Keldon somewhat reinforces my point: good players sometimes drop way too far. And my other point: some players who have size get overhyped and picked way too high. I think Tyrese has some potential to be a star. Not a lot, but who does in this draft, and that is just one example, and, granted, my subjective opinion. I would rather take multiple attempts at finding talent then going all in on a guy that I don't think will be a star and will take too much time to develop, at which point he will probably be leaving anyway.
    Here's the key thing people forget:

    There wasn't a tournament.

    For all we know, a couple of these players would have blown up in that tournament.

    Leave it to the great organizations who would have predicted it and will draft them by draft night.

    Some of the players in the teens could very well be top 10 if there was a college tournament.

    ADVANTAGE: SPURS

  11. #86
    Veteran The Truth #6's Avatar
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    Here's the key thing people forget:

    There wasn't a tournament.

    For all we know, a couple of these players would have blown up in that tournament.

    Leave it to the great organizations who would have predicted it and will draft them by draft night.

    Some of the players in the teens could very well be top 10 if there was a college tournament.

    ADVANTAGE: SPURS
    Yes!

  12. #87
    Veteran Sugus's Avatar
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    I'm just talking here - I'm really not in the mood to fight with anyone. I had read that report shortly after it was posted, and I'll tell you what I saw in that sort of synopsis section at the top. (I had to re-type it since it was an image file - I got most of the words.) If you look, even the positive things are sort of ass-backwards negatives. Like where it says he's not a shooter right now - but could become one. That last part didn't really distract me from the "not a shooter" part.

    Not a shooter right now, but there is reason to buy shot due to form. Not a good passer, clogs paint and has poor spacing feel (doesn’tmove out to open up passing lanes), questionable decision maker (andturnover prone in past with poor shot selection in HS/AAU)… gazellein straight line and has vertical pop when he has time to load… bu takes him time to load. … Questionable shot selection going backto EYBL – need to keep him in the box until he is able to develop. Average hands – misses contested rebounds and passes. Not aself-creator.


    That may not all be strictly accurate, but you can't get around the shooting. I've seen a chart and it's bleak. But assume it's fairly accurate - if you put it all together, he's got to develop some range or he's pretty one-dimensional. And being one-dimensional is a big hill to climb in the New NBA. I'm sure he could learn, but we can say that about nearly all of them until they've been there at least a few years. So like I said - I might throw the #2 pick at him, but I wouldn't throw the #2 pick PLUS Wiggins' terrible contract at him.

    I'm really getting anxious to see how the actual FO's rate some of these guys.
    Haha, I wasn't picking a fight. I get the negatives and question marks, just think that they aren't set in stone (and they evaluate a Wiseman that's been through a year+ of lone development, for better or worse). The shooting is a big IF, but I think it's fair to say that he's not a shooter right now, but could turn into one. There's a major distinction, IMO, between players that have to fix their shot, relearn it, then get confidence in it, and guys who have a perfectly fine shot but don't take many of them. From the report at least, it seems like Wiseman is the latter, and with the more-than-obvious emphasis that the modern NBA has on 3pt shooting, I can't see Wiseman not working into at least a serviceable shot. I also tend to agree with the article, in the sense that beyond a good CnS shot, Wiseman doesn't really "need" to be an outright shooter to succeed - that is, if his inside presence and rebounding stack up to measure. Not every team has to be a Pocket Rockettes-style offense where everyone and their momma is a shooter. It's a plus, not a must, IF he develops as he should in other facets of the game.

    It's funny to think about big men in the new NBA though. I was gonna say, he could develop a midrange, but is that even worth it now? Beyond fade-aways or pump fake then passing out of doubles, I can't say I'd want Wiseman shooting midrange pullup J's. It's all 3-or-die these days. More of a reflection of the modern league than Wiseman as a prospect, tbh.

  13. #88
    Veteran Sugus's Avatar
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    I know it is counter-intuitive to want to trade down, but your example of Keldon somewhat reinforces my point: good players sometimes drop way too far. And my other point: some players who have size get overhyped and picked way too high. I think Tyrese has some potential to be a star. Not a lot, but who does in this draft, and that is just one example, and, granted, my subjective opinion. I would rather take multiple attempts at finding talent then going all in on a guy that I don't think will be a star and will take too much time to develop, at which point he will probably be leaving anyway.
    I see your point, agree with it, and say it: I want to have my cake, and eat it too. My ideal scenario is that the Spurs manage to turn LMA into #2 (and Wiggins...), AND they also manage to turn DeRozan into additional FRPs, even if they're low-20's. Even just one FRP would be plenty given the Spurs' drafting history. I'm just saying, if given the two options between going all-out to trade up and get a star, or trade down to get multiple lower picks, I think I'd still pick trading up, just because of the increased chances of s om-struck talents. My love for Keldon is ever-growing, but we can't assume every pick will turn out like that, and between the option of multiple Dejounte-like role players, and Wiseman-like intriguing talents, I'd rather have the latter. It's certainly personal opinion, and this is certainly not the best draft to be trading up in, but at the same time, a top lottery pick will probably never be as cheap as it would be this year. I say take that chance and live with the results, tbh.

  14. #89
    Veteran The Truth #6's Avatar
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    I see your point, agree with it, and say it: I want to have my cake, and eat it too. My ideal scenario is that the Spurs manage to turn LMA into #2 (and Wiggins...), AND they also manage to turn DeRozan into additional FRPs, even if they're low-20's. Even just one FRP would be plenty given the Spurs' drafting history. I'm just saying, if given the two options between going all-out to trade up and get a star, or trade down to get multiple lower picks, I think I'd still pick trading up, just because of the increased chances of s om-struck talents. My love for Keldon is ever-growing, but we can't assume every pick will turn out like that, and between the option of multiple Dejounte-like role players, and Wiseman-like intriguing talents, I'd rather have the latter. It's certainly personal opinion, and this is certainly not the best draft to be trading up in, but at the same time, a top lottery pick will probably never be as cheap as it would be this year. I say take that chance and live with the results, tbh.
    I get it. IF they see that top talent, then yes. I don’t see it but I’m not employed by an NBA front office, either.

    And I love the best of both worlds approach. 👍

  15. #90
    You Are Not Worthy ZeusWillJudge's Avatar
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    I'm really getting anxious to see how the actual FO's rate some of these guys.
    We aren't going to see that lol.

    I wish.

    My proudest moment would be is if Jalen Smith + Mason Jones were on top of their draft board too.

    No, no... I mean where they actually get drafted. That's pretty much where the rubber meets the road. Yeah I'd like to get a peek at their personal big boards, but of course nobody's doing that.


    If you nail both of the Spurs' picks, I'll have a plaque made and you can used it as your avatar pic.

  16. #91
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    I see your point, agree with it, and say it: I want to have my cake, and eat it too. My ideal scenario is that the Spurs manage to turn LMA into #2 (and Wiggins...), AND they also manage to turn DeRozan into additional FRPs, even if they're low-20's. Even just one FRP would be plenty given the Spurs' drafting history. I'm just saying, if given the two options between going all-out to trade up and get a star, or trade down to get multiple lower picks, I think I'd still pick trading up, just because of the increased chances of s om-struck talents. My love for Keldon is ever-growing, but we can't assume every pick will turn out like that, and between the option of multiple Dejounte-like role players, and Wiseman-like intriguing talents, I'd rather have the latter. It's certainly personal opinion, and this is certainly not the best draft to be trading up in, but at the same time, a top lottery pick will probably never be as cheap as it would be this year. I say take that chance and live with the results, tbh.
    If we get an additional first round pick, I would want Jalen Smith.

  17. #92
    Veteran John B's Avatar
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    Spurs are keeping Aldridge and Demar and picking another 6'5" guard at 11. I'm tired of hoping and getting disappointed.

  18. #93
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    Spurs are keeping Aldridge and Demar and picking another 6'5" guard at 11. I'm tired of hoping and getting disappointed.
    You are being too generous at 6'5 more like a 6'3 guard.

  19. #94
    Veteran The Truth #6's Avatar
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    You are being too generous at 6'5 more like a 6'3 guard.
    Tyrese Maxey!

  20. #95
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    Don't show Thomas82 this... He will blow a load like this


  21. #96
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    Don't show Thomas82 this... He will blow a load like this

    Make it happen, Spurs

  22. #97
    I want some NASTY! SpurPadre's Avatar
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    I mentioned this in another thread but it's worth nentioning here that earlier this year, Wiseman said he modeled his game after DA ADMIRAL. https://news4sanantonio.com/sports/s...a-spurs-legend

    "So I am more like a back-in-the-day guy. So I'll say David Robinson for sure."

    If PATFO is high on him, I hope they do whatever it takes to get him. They might not want to be a lottery team again, especially as Pop's career winds down.

  23. #98
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    Don't show Thomas82 this... He will blow a load like this

    Dejounte I already saw this last night. And don't come for me if I don't send for you.

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  25. #100
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    Was listening to NBA radio and they were interviewing Penny Hardaway (University of Memphis head coach) and he stated Wiseman has a lot of skills like ball handling and shooting that folks didn’t get to see due to him sitting out.

    they also talked about how smart of a player and student he was. He had a really high GPA coming out of high school

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