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i am speaking for myself. that's why i used the word "i'd" fight...
you have actually encapsulated the issue I have begun to have with the modern progressivehere's a handy voter's guide btw
the lack of understanding that as tip O’Neal said, all politics are local is seemingly too nuanced for them.
trading one cult of personality in trump for another in Bernie means nothing. It won’t accomplish anything.
you want to move leftward, you start by electing Bernie Sanders city councils and mayors, elect Bernie Sanders State Reps and senators. Bernie Sanders governors. Elect congress people and senators. Accept the place conservative Dems have in the party. Then show the up to give them cover at election time.
Thinking that a president without the support of a friendly congress Will miraculously work, in these times, is a pipe dream
i am speaking for myself. that's why i used the word "i'd" fight...
You took me saying "Doesn't matter" as me saying it doesn't affect my life, when I meant it as the progressive vote means little because they're mostly on solid blue stateswhat context did i leave out?
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was the only logical conclusion when you only quoted that sentence of my post, where i specifically mentioned it not affecting your life. if i misunderstood, im sorry, but your post heavily implied it
dont know what else "they really dont" could be referring to here when this is all you quoted
Yeah, deciding who to support or not to support based off how supporters act on Twitter. Great way to look at things.
Biden adopting Bernie’s plan of raising the cap gains tax up to the ordinary tax rate is the only reason I’ve given him money. It doesn’t do nearly enough but it does some to address wealth inequality.
If Biden gets us out of COVID , raises the cap gains tax and adds a public option to healthcare (that’s now highly unlikely since Rubber Richie Neal will still be chairing Ways and Means), id consider his presidency a decent transition.
classlesswas the only logical conclusion when you only quoted that sentence of my post, where i specifically mentioned it not affecting your life. if i misunderstood, im sorry, but your post heavily implied it
dont know what else "they really dont" could be referring to here when this is all you quoted
T. B. H.
now you're just whining tbh
I actually agree with this, which is my main gripe with the Democratic Party. It campaigns more aggressively against progressive insurgent candidates in dark blue districts than it does against Republicans in swing districts. Wouldn’t the Democratic Party want its bluest districts to have leftist reps? I could sympathize with having more moderate candidates at the national level except the Democratic Pary is clearly bent on pillow smothering progressive candidates whenever they appear.
To use the same example as before, Richie Neal isn’t even a moderate on healthcare. His goal is ensuring Blackstone (his biggest contributor) can keep surprise billing going for the healthcare companies in its portfolio even though most Republicans are against surprise billing at this point, and he’s in a dark blue district. It’s not a race where the Democrats needed a moderate to win, yet they pulled out every dirty trick in the book to stop Morse’s campaign. He’s as far right as it gets in terms of wanting uncontrolled healthcare costs. The Democratic Party should want nothing to do with Richie Neal, and instead it has him chairing the committee in charge of healthcare reform.
Theres a fine line between being pragmatic and trying to win the center while still being a Democrat vs. shamelessly whoring your party to corporations to win elections while maintaining the bare minimum amount of left wing ideals, and the Democratic Party is well past it.
Last edited by Will Hunting; 09-02-2020 at 01:53 AM.
entertaining but vacuous tbh. its more of "they're exactly the same thing"
150K+ dead Americans aren't "existential" anymore because of Trash
there will 1000s more diseased, damaged, dead people from Trash's destruction of EPA, Interior, Labor, Energy, Education, etc.
Perdue, etc see virgin forests as crops, and wonderful sites for resource extraction.
ACA will be killed, 10Ks will die for want of health care,
Another 4 years of Trash and his Repug kakistocracy will widen and deepen the horrendous damage so far which already will last many years.
Hard and long to build, much easier and quicker to destroy. Trash and Repugs and Capitalism to
actually, it’s the idea that somehow a group, supposedly so passionate about ideals, not participating, and trying to absolve themselves of any sort of culpability for lack of participation is what soured me on the Bernie, not progressive, movement.
If these things mean so much, then there should be absolutely no reason to not be engaged at every level. It wasn’t that long ago, post 2016, r’s held 30 + governorships, most with at least one house of state government as well.
the lurch to the right you decry didn’t happen in a vacuum. It happened because too many people like you (not you) didn’t show up to vote and make their voices heard for decades.
you have to win elections to have a say. You can say it’s the dnc all you want, but they’re a mirror of their support. If you can’t change the reflection they see when looking into it, you really lose your right to complain.
The Democrats failing to actively participating in state level elections isn't something that you can pin on progressives. It's a party wide issue that starts with leadership. They simply haven't prioritized controlling state legislatures and governor seats the way Republicans have. It's part of a broader theme where Republicans are more unified in their message and maintaining power. Sandra Day O'Connor stepped down from SCOTUS 15 years ago just to ensure it would be a conservative president who picks her replacement even though she was in good health and could still be on SCOTUS to this day. Contrast that with RBG being a self-absorbed who's put her seat in jeopardy because she was sure Hillary would win and wanted afemale president
Like it or not voter shaming doesn't work. If anything the voter shaming only makes it so the people you're shaming are even more stubborn. I think the BernieBros who aren't voting out of spite this year are insane (especially since to your point there's races on the ballot beyond just the presidency), but you're not going to convince them to vote by shaming them the way you're doing in this post. At some point the Democratic Party needs to stop blaming the BernieBros and ask itself why, notwithstanding the fact it's the party that's supposed to represent liberal ideals, the most liberal people in the country are so displeased with it that they'd rather risk a 2nd Trump term than vote for Biden. Your post ignores the reality that telling voters "hey the alternative is so bad I shouldn't even need to explain to you why you should vote Democrat, you should just show up and do it because we're not as bad as the Republicans" has never worked. If Donald Trump running this country into the ground hasn't changed that, nothing is ever going to.
The notion that the DNC is a "mirror of its support" can't actually be serious. 80% of Democratic voters support Medicare for all, but the DNC makes an effort to blackball candidates who support it. The DNC is a product of what its corporate sponsors want.
why is it the parties responsibility to cater to a block that has never ever consistently shown up to vote?The Democrats failing to actively participating in state level elections isn't something that you can pin on progressives. It's a party wide issue that starts with leadership. They simply haven't prioritized controlling state legislatures and governor seats the way Republicans have. It's part of a broader theme where Republicans are more unified in their message and maintaining power. Sandra Day O'Connor stepped down from SCOTUS 15 years ago just to ensure it would be a conservative president who picks her replacement even though she was in good health and could still be on SCOTUS to this day. Contrast that with RBG being a self-absorbed who's put her seat in jeopardy because she was sure Hillary would win and wanted a
Like it or not voter shaming doesn't work. If anything the voter shaming only makes it so the people you're shaming are even more stubborn. I think the BernieBros who aren't voting out of spite this year are insane (especially since to your point there's races on the ballot beyond just the presidency), but you're not going to convince them to vote by shaming them the way you're doing in this post. At some point the Democratic Party needs to stop blaming the BernieBros and ask itself why, notwithstanding the fact it's the party that's supposed to represent liberal ideals, the most liberal people in the country are so displeased with it that they'd rather risk a 2nd Trump term than vote for Biden. Your post ignores the reality that telling voters "hey the alternative is so bad I shouldn't even need to explain to you why you should vote Democrat, you should just show up and do it because we're not as bad as the Republicans" has never worked. If Donald Trump running this country into the ground hasn't changed that, nothing is ever going to.
The notion that the DNC is a "mirror of its support" can't actually be serious. 80% of Democratic voters support Medicare for all, but the DNC makes an effort to blackball candidates who support it. The DNC is a product of what its corporate sponsors want.
You want a voice, then gain that power through participation.
Medicare 4 all has always been popular. But people aren’t going to change unless it’s forced. progs, and other ideological purists have always seemed to think that the way to show the dem establishment is to not show up.
well that gave us w, and now Trump.
Quick question, are you white?
The party is supposed to represent its voters. The DNC doesn't do that, it has its own agenda that's agnostic to what the Democratic base actually wants. After Romney lost in large part due to lack of enthusiasm from his base, the RNC didn't actively try to cram another milquetoast establishment candidate down their throat in 2016, it held an honest primary and let its voters nominate Trump.
As I've already said, you're naively oversimplifying the process of gaining power through representation. The DNC doesn't simply ignore progressives and say "We're here to help you when you win," it actively works to impede them. When a gay progressive runs for a house seat in Massachusetts, the Massachusetts Democrat Party conspires with a couple wad college kids who want an internship with the in bent to run a smear campaign geared at stoking phonic stereotypes. The Party should be focused on helping Democrats beat Republicans, it shouldn't be picking horses in and funding primary races. That's why progressives think the best way to show the Dem establishment is to not show up. The Dem establishment actively works to undermine and silence progressivism. It's intellectually dishonest to pretend the DNC establishment is more than open to progressive ideals but they just don't have enough support. They have no support because the DNC fights harder against far left ideals than it does against far right ideals.
Yes, I'm white.
Last edited by Will Hunting; 09-02-2020 at 10:10 AM.
you’re making my point. They are representing the people that actually vote. And most of rational America isn’t radical either way.
if the prog wing wants to win with ideas, you actually have to frame the ideas, and CONTROL THE GOD DAMNED NARRATIVE. And then accept that getting 85% of what you want is better than less than zero, and ing show up to vote.
Dems are getting more votes, but because they have not been consistent in showing up at the polls every election, they’ve allowed the r’s to create a system where they don’t need to win to rule.
the ONLY way that changes is through participation. Let trump win again, see what happens to the non white male population of this country.
Lol this thread went to complete .
Only takes a right winger to incite a pointless argument to have people from the same side to bicker and fight over night. Notch another win for Trump.
The Democrat s Ticket is sh**.
Chumpettes have hurt feelings.
You keep repeating JUST SHOW UP AND VOTE without addressing anything I'm actually saying. Like it or not, yelling at BernieBros to JUST VOTE FOR WHATEVER MILQUETOAST CLOWN WE CRAM DOWN YOUR THROAT isn't ever going to work. It's just going to piss BernieBros off more. At some point the burden rests on the party to rally its base, not on the base to rally itself.
Keep vote shaming though, it worked really well in 2016.
implying Jim Crow Joe wants is pushing for 85% of what BernieBros want. His campaign staffer already tipped his hand when he said the Trump tax cuts are going to make it so Biden isn't going to be able to do much. It has all the makings of another 2009.
Btw, one of the reasons Democrats lose so badly with white males is the at ude
Last edited by Will Hunting; 09-02-2020 at 01:01 PM.
nm
Last edited by baseline bum; 09-02-2020 at 01:45 PM.
yikes that’s Nathan territory there.You keep repeating JUST SHOW UP AND VOTE without addressing anything I'm actually saying. Like it or not, yelling at BernieBros to JUST VOTE FOR WHATEVER MILQUETOAST CLOWN WE CRAM DOWN YOUR THROAT isn't ever going to work. It's just going to piss BernieBros off more. At some point the burden rests on the party to rally its base, not on the base to rally itself.
Keep vote shaming though, it worked really well in 2016.
Btw, one of the reasons Democrats lose so badly with white males is the at ude
But, again, if you don’t participate, no one is going to listen to what you have to say.
I don’t get why you think that a block of voters should be catered to when they do nothing to help win elections. I mean, I get it, it’s been a pretty common refrain from prog’s as they have sought to absolve themselves of culpability.
when you (metaphorical) manage to show up year in and year out and vote, they will pay attention. They will have to then. At this point, progs haven’t earned that ass kissing.
I’m still hopeful that the young people will see what they can do, and harness their power. But they’ve never stepped up to the plate on a meaningful and consistent basis.
Why did you edit the post? It was solid.
How am I culpable exactly? You keep voter shaming me without addressing anything I’m saying.
You have a deep resentment for BernieBros and don’t even know why
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