Europe: Lebron is the GOAT, tbh... on and off the court

[ElNono]

Lakers didn't make the playoffs when he got there so he didn't exactly turn them into an "insta-contender".

That's a fair point, forgot about that.

[Dirks_Finale]

Those 2010&2011 playoff runs by Lebron will always hurt him against Dad killer.

[Dirks_Finale]

Good point about Tim.

So, I guess what I am saying is, I think because Kiwi walked into a concrete situation with other long time leaders in SA, He did not feel comfortable being the guy no matter what Pop told him. Perhaps I read it wrong, but I always got that feeling with him. He looked more comfortable in Toronto than he did in SA to me.

Pop's system never stopped Duncan from going full Alpha male during the playoffs. There are plenty of series where Duncan averaged 27-30 points a game. You should know this considering he had some of his best series against your mavs. #2 had the same green light Duncan had during the playoffs in '15 and '16. He did get bodied in '15 and '16 playoffs and the stats show it. Pop wasn't holding him back. He was holding himself back in those series.

In the '15 playoffs against the Clippers he dominated the first 4 games averaging 24.8 pts a game on a FG percentage of 60 percent. The next 3 games he shrunk and averaged 14.3 points on 29 percent FG percentage.

The '16 playoffs against the Thunder was a similar story. #2 had 3 great games in that series followed by 3 crap games. He had 3 games where he shot 39 percent or lower. Here is what Roberson said about #2 in that series Andre Roberson "In Game 2, I got a better feel for him (Kawhi Leonard), and kind of asserted my will on him." https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/n...-second-round/

When a srcub like Roberson believes he can shut you down that's embarrassing but #2 didn't do enough to silence Roberson throughout that series espescially when the Spurs were facing elimination in game 6. #2 in that elimination game shot 9/23 which is a FG percentage of 39 percent. Roberson ended the game on 14 pts on 62 percent shooting. Very embarrassing when a scrub who has no scoring ability drops that many points on you in an elimination game.

Roberson bodied #2 on this play for sure

[Spurtacular]

Lebron turned probably the worst team in the NBA in the past 5+ seasons in a insta-contender.

Uh, no. He missed the playoffs.

Apparently all your gushing is misappropriated and Anthony Davis is GOAT.

[Neo.]

Don't forget that one All Star game where the Kobester blocked Lebron, tbh... Kobe got the "I've blocked Lebron" participation trophy too...

lol yeah that's right kobestans were saying "kobe would absolutely lock up lebron, remember the all star game???????"

[Killakobe81]

Look I m far from a Bron stan ...but the argument that anyone would take prime Kawhi over Bron, even conceding KL was the better on ball defender and has the better jumper is crazy talk.
Flip Bron and Kawhi in those back to back Finals and Spurs win both they don't split.
Put prime Bron on the Raptiors last year they ring.
But can KAwhi carry teams to the Finals? ala Bron?
KAwhi has been coached by Pop Nurse and teh overrated but still a good coach Doc.
Bron has had Spo and a bunch of overrated coaches like Lue and retreads like Mike Brown.

YEs 2011 is a stain on Lebron's legacy but KL needs to do more than just win a le hie is FAVORED to win ...to even be in the same convo with LeBron.
Yall blinded by recency bias.

BTW, KL if he rings in 2020 and never rings again will have the weirdest career arc for player of his winning credentials. Possibly the alpha on back to back championships at least two finals MVP's and three rings as a major contributor along with at least two finals MVPs ...but no regular season MVPs and wont have the longevity numbers most likely...be very interesting especially if Clips lose.

[JamStone]

Old ass LeBron still putting up 26/10/10 on 58% FG shooting so far in these playoffs.

Still has an argument he’s the biggest difference maker and most valuable player in the league tbh.

Not an absolutely indisputable claim. But he does have an argument.

[phxspurfan]

Old ass LeBron still putting up 26/10/10 on 58% FG shooting so far in these playoffs.

Still has an argument he’s the biggest difference maker and most valuable player in the league tbh.

Not an absolutely indisputable claim. But he does have an argument.

HGH is a of a drug

[ElNono]

Uh, no. He missed the playoffs.

Apparently all your gushing is misappropriated and Anthony Davis is GOAT.

He took a year off to build the team, big deal. People forget how absolutely dismal the Lakeshow was for the past 5+ seasons, now he's talking championship.

Also, the commentary about off the court leadership is still spot on.

[Arcadian]

I don't share the sentiment of "dreading the day he's not around anymore" tbh. For me, Lebron has never been very entertaining to watch. And I find his personality rather off-putting. Great player, but not the GOAT because he can be easily game-planned for (make him a jump shooter). He doesn't strike fear into anyone, much less Spurs fans who've seen him get destroyed multiple times in the Finals.

[lefty]

Getting destroyed lol

[JamStone]

You might not dread the day LeBron is gone, but a few years ago when the league had already begun to shift away from him, the next face of the NBA was looking like pimple face catfish boy or Osama Bin Harden love with the strippers. Or it could have been the 12 year old kid from the Bay who with his wife and daughters might as well have been part of a Christian Living reality show, Currying favor with Jesus. The face of the league was certainly never going to be the big hands mute boy.

Maybe you don’t like LeBron’s personality or the way he plays. But damn if you think about the other options to be the next global brand ambassador of NBA basketball. Silver and the league front office better hope Zion is going to be good enough to make his teams legitimate contenders, and sooner rather than later. Bron Bron might only have 1-2 more years left in the league.

[daslicer]

You might not dread the day LeBron is gone, but a few years ago when the league had already begun to shift away from him, the next face of the NBA was looking like pimple face catfish boy or Osama Bin Harden love with the strippers. Or it could have been the 12 year old kid from the Bay who with his wife and daughters might as well have been part of a Christian Living reality show, Currying favor with Jesus. The face of the league was certainly never going to be the big hands mute boy.

Maybe you don’t like LeBron’s personality or the way he plays. But damn if you think about the other options to be the next global brand ambassador of NBA basketball. Silver and the league front office better hope Zion is going to be good enough to make his teams legitimate contenders, and sooner rather than later. Bron Bron might only have 1-2 more years left in the league.

Personally once you get to a certain age all these guys tend to be hateable. Jokic,Mitc ,Doncic,Tatum,Walker, are the only stars in these playoffs that didn't come across to me as hateable. I know some will say Doncic whines too much to the refs but outside of that I don't find him annoying.

[Spurtacular]

He took a year off to build the team, big deal. People forget how absolutely dismal the Lakeshow was for the past 5+ seasons, now he's talking championship.

Also, the commentary about off the court leadership is still spot on.

So not an "insta-contender" because of his on-court skills.
Not a case for GOAT, tbh.

[JamStone]

Tbh, last season LeBron had the Lakers in playoff position and even at some point early on in the season some 30 games in as a high playoff seed before he got hurt and missed a bunch of games and the team fell off the cliff. They were a team without him, but pretty compe ive early when he was healthy. How bad they were without him illustrates how much of an impact he still was making until getting injured.

[MultiTroll]

Took a team with a Kardashian and other scrubs to a Finals win against a super rigged Golden gots team.

STFU Lebron haters. Next.

[JamStone]

Jokic,Mitc ,Doncic,Tatum,Walker, are the only stars in these playoffs that didn't come across to me as hateable. I know some will say Doncic whines too much to the refs but outside of that I don't find him annoying.

Sure but unfortunately none of those guys have the juice to carry the league from a marketing standpoint. Even Luka, for as entertaining and likable as he is, won’t be able to. International players are tough sells because some of their personality and charisma get lost when they use a secondary, non-native language. I wish that weren’t the case because I’m a Luka fan. Same problem with Giannis, who’s even less eloquent than a teenage kid at a town carnival running the tea cup ride for kids.

The next face of the league is going to have to be someone like Zion, who has big charisma, a recognizable look, and really appeals to fans. I wish Dame Dollar were younger and was on a bigger profile team. A 23 year old Dame on the Knicks (provided they were actually a good team too) could take the mantle from LeBron.

[LaMarcus Bryant]

Pop's system never stopped Duncan from going full Alpha male during the playoffs. There are plenty of series where Duncan averaged 27-30 points a game. You should know this considering he had some of his best series against your mavs. #2 had the same green light Duncan had during the playoffs in '15 and '16. He did get bodied in '15 and '16 playoffs and the stats show it. Pop wasn't holding him back. He was holding himself back in those series.

In the '15 playoffs against the Clippers he dominated the first 4 games averaging 24.8 pts a game on a FG percentage of 60 percent. The next 3 games he shrunk and averaged 14.3 points on 29 percent FG percentage.

The '16 playoffs against the Thunder was a similar story. #2 had 3 great games in that series followed by 3 crap games. He had 3 games where he shot 39 percent or lower. Here is what Roberson said about #2 in that series Andre Roberson "In Game 2, I got a better feel for him (Kawhi Leonard), and kind of asserted my will on him." https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/n...-second-round/

When a srcub like Roberson believes he can shut you down that's embarrassing but #2 didn't do enough to silence Roberson throughout that series espescially when the Spurs were facing elimination in game 6. #2 in that elimination game shot 9/23 which is a FG percentage of 39 percent. Roberson ended the game on 14 pts on 62 percent shooting. Very embarrassing when a scrub who has no scoring ability drops that many points on you in an elimination game.

Roberson bodied #2 on this play for sure

yeah everyone conveniently forgets the total abortion playoff series Nephew had. That OKC series was disgusting.

[ambchang]

Not sure about how important the face of the league thing is. It went from Milan to Cousy to jabbar (reluctantly) to dr J to magic /bird to Jordan to Kobe to Lebron. There were gaps in between (mostly 70s) when the league was terrible and post Jordan. The league will go on with out a likeable face for a while. Perhaps it will finally wake the league up to start focusing on gameplay and team affiliation.

[lefty]

Sure but unfortunately none of those guys have the juice to carry the league from a marketing standpoint. Even Luka, for as entertaining and likable as he is, won’t be able to. International players are tough sells because some of their personality and charisma get lost when they use a secondary, non-native language. I wish that weren’t the case because I’m a Luka fan. Same problem with Giannis, who’s even less eloquent than a teenage kid at a town carnival running the tea cup ride for kids.

The next face of the league is going to have to be someone like Zion, who has big charisma, a recognizable look, and really appeals to fans. I wish Dame Dollar were younger and was on a bigger profile team. A 23 year old Dame on the Knicks (provided they were actually a good team too) could take the mantle from LeBron.

I’ve always thought Petro and Divac were marketable
Not MJ or Magic marketable but they had some charisma imo

[JamStone]

Not sure about how important the face of the league thing is. It went from Milan to Cousy to jabbar (reluctantly) to dr J to magic /bird to Jordan to Kobe to Lebron. There were gaps in between (mostly 70s) when the league was terrible and post Jordan. The league will go on with out a likeable face for a while. Perhaps it will finally wake the league up to start focusing on gameplay and team affiliation.

Pre-80s means little because the league really exploded and took on national mass appeal with Magic and Bird. It’s why that’s considered the golden era of NBA basketball. Jordan along with the Dream Team in the 90s took it to a global level. LeBron has continued to keep the global interest in the NBA that perhaps lost some appeal in the late 90s, early 2000s.

Tbh, the league didn’t really pass from Jordan to Kobe to LeBron. From the late 90s to the mid 2000s when LeBron really took over, it wasn’t really Kobe’s league, it wasn’t Shaq’s or Duncan’s either. For a few years from late 90s to early 2000s, the league was carried by a 6 foot, 165 pound giant from Bethel High School in Hampton, Virginia. Bubba Chuck. Not so much endorsed by the league as the face, but Iverson drove ratings, merch sales, interest, and relevance to the NBA post-Jordan. If it’s not another Jordan, Bird, Magic, or LeBron, that’s the type of player who could emerge. An Iverson type personality and charisma would keep interest from waning too much, as it appears to have done with or without the pandemic. That’s one of the reasons I mentioned Dame. In the right market, he’d have an Iverson appeal, minus the do-rags and casino trips.

[ambchang]

Pre-80s means little because the league really exploded and took on national mass appeal with Magic and Bird. It’s why that’s considered the golden era of NBA basketball. Jordan along with the Dream Team in the 90s took it to a global level. LeBron has continued to keep the global interest in the NBA that perhaps lost some appeal in the late 90s, early 2000s.

Tbh, the league didn’t really pass from Jordan to Kobe to LeBron. From the late 90s to the mid 2000s when LeBron really took over, it wasn’t really Kobe’s league, it wasn’t Shaq’s or Duncan’s either. For a few years from late 90s to early 2000s, the league was carried by a 6 foot, 165 pound giant from Bethel High School in Hampton, Virginia. Bubba Chuck. Not so much endorsed by the league as the face, but Iverson drove ratings, merch sales, interest, and relevance to the NBA post-Jordan. If it’s not another Jordan, Bird, Magic, or LeBron, that’s the type of player who could emerge. An Iverson type personality and charisma would keep interest from waning too much, as it appears to have done with or without the pandemic. That’s one of the reasons I mentioned Dame. In the right market, he’d have an Iverson appeal, minus the do-rags and casino trips.

You are right. Iverson was huge for the hip hop generation and really put the nba back to the forgotten market after the league spent way too much effort to curry up to the corporate folks.

I think Kobe really took the global appeal to another level though. He was, and still is, a god in China. Shaq tried too hard to be the face but he really never had that appeal and Duncan just doesn’t have that appeal and didn’t care much for it. TMac, carter and maybe even Dirk had more appeal than shaq and Duncan.

[JamStone]

Fair point on Kobe globally. He’s worshipped in Asia in general, not just China. They loooove him in the Philippines.

[daslicer]

Sure but unfortunately none of those guys have the juice to carry the league from a marketing standpoint. Even Luka, for as entertaining and likable as he is, won’t be able to. International players are tough sells because some of their personality and charisma get lost when they use a secondary, non-native language. I wish that weren’t the case because I’m a Luka fan. Same problem with Giannis, who’s even less eloquent than a teenage kid at a town carnival running the tea cup ride for kids.

The next face of the league is going to have to be someone like Zion, who has big charisma, a recognizable look, and really appeals to fans. I wish Dame Dollar were younger and was on a bigger profile team. A 23 year old Dame on the Knicks (provided they were actually a good team too) could take the mantle from LeBron.

1. I agree a foreign player will never be the the face of the league.
2. Jordan was the only guy who was the face of the league that I liked. I'm sure if social media existed during the 90's I probably would not have liked him. After Jordan I would say the face of the league was Kobe-Shaq,Lebron. Never liked those 3 guys. Was happy when Kobe and Shaq was gone from the league. Will feel the same about Lebron. I will probably not like the new face of the league. The league will go through some trial and error period when looking for the new guy just like did during the 90's and early 00's when they tried to make Grant Hill,Penny,Vince Carter,AI,Tmac the face of the league.

[Spurtacular]

For a few years from late 90s to early 2000s, the league was carried by a 6 foot, 165 pound giant from Bethel High School in Hampton, Virginia. Bubba Chuck. Not so much endorsed by the league as the face, but Iverson drove ratings, merch sales, interest, and relevance to the NBA post-Jordan.

There's some truth to this. It's why to this day Iverson to this day is probably the most over-rated player in league history.