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  1. #76
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    1) I didn't change a thing, I'm talking players in the past 20-25 years. Not my fault Lebron hasn't retired and shat the bed like MJ did yet. I certainly give you or anybody that disagrees with what I said that Lebron still has some ways to go to clear the bar.

    2) You're running away from the main argument here, which is Jordan not ever giving a about the black community while he was profiting from the crime his shoes created (whether they were made in China or Indonesia). It's also pretty convenient to bring up Lebron and China now, when nobody had a problem with muh human rights when MJ was exploiting children over there to make his shoes. That's a nice double standard, tbh.

    3) He simply doesn't have to do it to make a buck, period. See: MJ, who played Uncle Tom to appease white people and still made a bundle. There's simply no comparison in this topic.

    4) Kicked off a public school in Akron, Ohio, which he called the greatest achievement of his career. He speaks out for them, gives them a voice. Not to mention direct and indirect charity, but more importantly, he embarrassed MJ into saying something nice about the black community after 20+ years. What has MJ done for the black community, other than rip them off with cheap sneakers and overpriced jerseys?

    5) How is that bad? It's a public school. It's orders of magnitude better than flooding the black neighborhoods with cheap shoes with a markup and watch the lil niglets kill each other over them, all the while staying silent and counting dem bills.
    Again you are deflecting your original post which was this : If you put away your fandom for a minute, Lebron is easily the most charismatic, recognizable and likeable player in the league in the past 20-25 years, tbh...

    And I might be short on the 20-25 year range...


    1. When I said Jordan you then started screaming "I'm going to include what happened post career in there." You changed the narrative instantly. Now you have changed it again. Even if you want to include the post career garbage his merchandise still sells the most even more so than Lebron's shoes. I think that's indicative of who is more liked.

    2. There is no double standard here. Both are s bags from profiting off of third world labor. I'm just not blind of one's wrong doing simply because I hate the other one like you are doing.

    3. He's doing it to make a buck because he was a very polarizing figure after the decision. His marketing team along with Nike decided to brand him as a civil's right activist to sell his merchandise. It also was part of the narrative "Hey I may not have won as much as MJ but I'm a better person because I speak out on civil right's issues unlike MJ." Notice how he didn't speak out on these issues during the '00s but started to during the '10's.

    4. Oh wow he said something nice about the black community. So that make's him a humanitarian. He should be up there with Mother Theresa. What has Lebron really done for the black community other than speak out on social issues which is virtue signaling?

    5. Nothing is bad about the school itself just stating facts that his money did not solely build that school but it was Ohio state tax payer money. He shouldn't brag about creating a school which he only took small part of while the majority was done by the state. That's like me working in a group and claiming all the credit for the group's success when I only contributed 10 percent of the work.

    6. I don't respect Lebron's virtue signaling. I don't think his virtue signaling is courageous in any sense of the word courageous considering the majority of the country agrees with him on the social issues. There's no courage on speaking on a subject in which the majority agrees with you especially when you are financially protected. If he had everything to lose including endorsement money I doubt he would even open his mouth. You will probably think I'm a conservative but I'm actually anti-Trump. It's just that I don't respect phonies which Lebron is one.

  2. #77
    6X ST MVP Spurtacular's Avatar
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    The irony of the timing of this article. Except it's not ironic at all in the big picture.

    https://sports.yahoo.com/michael-jor...193413960.html

  3. #78
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    Again you are deflecting your original post which was this : If you put away your fandom for a minute, Lebron is easily the most charismatic, recognizable and likeable player in the league in the past 20-25 years, tbh...

    And I might be short on the 20-25 year range...


    1. When I said Jordan you then started screaming "I'm going to include what happened post career in there." You changed the narrative instantly. Now you have changed it again. Even if you want to include the post career garbage his merchandise still sells the most even more so than Lebron's shoes. I think that's indicative of who is more liked.

    2. There is no double standard here. Both are s bags from profiting off of third world labor. I'm just not blind of one's wrong doing simply because I hate the other one like you are doing.

    3. He's doing it to make a buck because he was a very polarizing figure after the decision. His marketing team along with Nike decided to brand him as a civil's right activist to sell his merchandise. It also was part of the narrative "Hey I may not have won as much as MJ but I'm a better person because I speak out on civil right's issues unlike MJ." Notice how he didn't speak out on these issues during the '00s but started to during the '10's.

    4. Oh wow he said something nice about the black community. So that make's him a humanitarian. He should be up there with Mother Theresa. What has Lebron really done for the black community other than speak out on social issues which is virtue signaling?

    5. Nothing is bad about the school itself just stating facts that his money did not solely build that school but it was Ohio state tax payer money. He shouldn't brag about creating a school which he only took small part of while the majority was done by the state. That's like me working in a group and claiming all the credit for the group's success when I only contributed 10 percent of the work.

    6. I don't respect Lebron's virtue signaling. I don't think his virtue signaling is courageous in any sense of the word courageous considering the majority of the country agrees with him on the social issues. There's no courage on speaking on a subject in which the majority agrees with you especially when you are financially protected. If he had everything to lose including endorsement money I doubt he would even open his mouth. You will probably think I'm a conservative but I'm actually anti-Trump. It's just that I don't respect phonies which Lebron is one.
    1. I don't have a problem if you want to rank MJ above, tbh. Like I said in a previous post, if he's only behind MJ, he's looking pretty swell. I do disagree he's behind MJ simply because we all know (even his teammates said so) that MJ was always a de able human being. Sorry, can't overlook that, but if you can, so be it.

    2. You still want to talk China because it distracts from the fact that MJ took a 25 year hiatus being an Uncle Tom before he would come forward and say something, anything, positive about the black community. tbh, it's no surprise white people love MJ, while they largely hate Lebron...

    3. I would agree with you that the decision was in poor taste. That said, when he had a chance to go make a lot of money somewhere else, he went back to the Cavs, and won them a ring, possibly the only one they'll ever have. That's Lebron and you don't see that very often. Frankly, it's simply stupid to pretend that Nike has forced him to do anything. He's a force only comparable to MJ when it comes to selling merchandise, doesn't have to say a word, or even expose himself to it. That's exactly why he comes off as genuine. I'm also glad Kaep finally got the recognition he deserved for speaking out about the racial problems in America, tbh...

    4. You might think it's not a big deal to speak out and support a minority, but your stakes are nowhere near as high as his whenever he makes a statement like that. Much like MJ, everything he says and does is constantly scrutinized, smeared, spun... So yeah, somebody with the name recognition of Lebron supporting BLM, for example, is a big deal. Like I said, he exposed frauds like MJ tbh... if speaking out is so easy and cheap, why does the likes of him and Pop get consistently reviled, tbh? it's not a big deal right?

    5. Of course it's important to speak out, even when you're financially protected. It shows even people that have it made care about those who do not. That's Pop, that's Lebron... they offer themselves as a vehicle of a minority to make themselves heard. They don't profit from that. Most of the time it lands them in trouble. That's courageous. They don't have to do it, they do it because they can and believe in it.

  4. #79
    6X ST MVP Spurtacular's Avatar
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    1. I don't have a problem if you want to rank MJ above, tbh. Like I said in a previous post, if he's only behind MJ, he's looking pretty swell. I do disagree he's behind MJ simply because we all know (even his teammates said so) that MJ was always a de able human being. Sorry, can't overlook that, but if you can, so be it.
    You're so deluded to think Lebron is somehow on a higher moral plane than Jordan.

  5. #80
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    1. I don't have a problem if you want to rank MJ above, tbh. Like I said in a previous post, if he's only behind MJ, he's looking pretty swell. I do disagree he's behind MJ simply because we all know (even his teammates said so) that MJ was always a de able human being. Sorry, can't overlook that, but if you can, so be it.

    2. You still want to talk China because it distracts from the fact that MJ took a 25 year hiatus being an Uncle Tom before he would come forward and say something, anything, positive about the black community. tbh, it's no surprise white people love MJ, while they largely hate Lebron...

    3. I would agree with you that the decision was in poor taste. That said, when he had a chance to go make a lot of money somewhere else, he went back to the Cavs, and won them a ring, possibly the only one they'll ever have. That's Lebron and you don't see that very often. Frankly, it's simply stupid to pretend that Nike has forced him to do anything. He's a force only comparable to MJ when it comes to selling merchandise, doesn't have to say a word, or even expose himself to it. That's exactly why he comes off as genuine. I'm also glad Kaep finally got the recognition he deserved for speaking out about the racial problems in America, tbh...

    4. You might think it's not a big deal to speak out and support a minority, but your stakes are nowhere near as high as his whenever he makes a statement like that. Much like MJ, everything he says and does is constantly scrutinized, smeared, spun... So yeah, somebody with the name recognition of Lebron supporting BLM, for example, is a big deal. Like I said, he exposed frauds like MJ tbh... if speaking out is so easy and cheap, why does the likes of him and Pop get consistently reviled, tbh? it's not a big deal right?

    5. Of course it's important to speak out, even when you're financially protected. It shows even people that have it made care about those who do not. That's Pop, that's Lebron... they offer themselves as a vehicle of a minority to make themselves heard. They don't profit from that. Most of the time it lands them in trouble. That's courageous. They don't have to do it, they do it because they can and believe in it.
    1. All I'm going to say is if we are going to talk about who was more charismatic, exciting as a player MJ wins hands down easily. Anybody who grew up during the 90's got into basketball because of MJ and wanted to be like him. I remember all the kids in school who got hooked on basketball when he played. Basketball has never been as popular as it was in the US during the 90's and that was because of MJ's appeal. Even your boy Manu was inspired by MJ.

    2. Yes I will bring up China because he's equally a corporate just like Jordan not to be against them. That in itself should show you he's no better than Jordan when it comes to having the moral high ground.

    3. He went back to the Cavs because he saw it as an opportunity to win another ring with them having Kyrie and the number 1 pick. He used the Cavs as an opportunity to create another super team since he saw the Heat falling apart with Wade being past his prime. Don't be naive to think he came back because he wanted to do it out of the goodness of his heart. Also he came back to clear up the bad PR he had gotten for leaving the Cavs. It was a politically motivated move by Lebron. I give Lebron credit in this sense he's very good at playing politics and can pull the wool over the eyes of simpletons like you. The more than an athlete campaign was Nike's idea and Lebron ran with it. That should tell you in itself that Nike pushed Lebron to speak out on these issues. Yes they didn't force him to speak out but they gave him permission to do so. Would he been willing to speak out on them if they didn't tell him it was ok to do so? The answer is I doubt it. He would have been mum on speaking out just like he was with China knowing he could lose money.

    4. I'm a year older than Lebron so I know this country better than you in the sense I was born and raised here unlike you. I grew up during the 90's and it wasn't easy for athletes to speak out on social issues back then since there was no social media. If you spoke out your risked losing it all since you had no way to defend yourself plus the adult generations back then was Boomers,Xers,Silent Generation. All 3 of those generations were super conservative and supported conservative values. It's much easier to speak out when you now have the millennial generation/generation Z which is progressive and now they outnumber boomers/Xers. Only reason I bring this up is because now when you speak out on these social issues you have at least half the country backing you whereas back then a super majority was against you. For every hater Pop/Lebron gets they get people who support them equally so now I don't think it's hard to speak out in today's environment. You can say MJ is a gutless coward for not speaking out about racial issues during the 80's and 90's but that was the whole entire league. Even former players admit they were not willing to risk everything. I doubt Lebron would be courageous to speak out in a 90's like environment knowing he wouldn't be able to defend himself against media backlash and have to deal with an adult majority conservative culture.

    5. There is no courage in speaking out when you are financially protected. Pop and Lebron are not going to lose their job tomorrow for speaking out. Pop and Lebron are not going to have to worry about their safety tomorrow for speaking out. I really doubt they land in any trouble besides a bunch of conservatives and conservative media screaming online how much they hate them. Pop and Lebron speak out really for their own adulation and enjoyment.

    6. Courage in my eyes is Bill Russell speaking out against racism during the 60's knowing he was risking his own life. His house got broken into a few times when he was in Boston. I would also say Kareem speaking out on racism/civil rights during the 60's and 70's and dealing with a huge backlash socially and having to deal with a super conservative society. Fact is Kareem had no social life during the period and lived like hermit due to the way society was back then. Ali going to jail and giving up his prime years not to go to Vietnam was courageous. Courage is Jackie Robinson dealing with extreme racism when he first played in MLB and have to deal with endless death threats, racist crowds screaming slurs at him, opposing players believing he didn't belong there because of race. Lebron is not dealing with any of that adversity or risking losing financial security,safety,mental well being like those men dealt with.

    7. I don't think either MJ or Lebron are good people. One is a sociopath and the other is a narcissist.
    Last edited by daslicer; 09-24-2020 at 02:31 AM.

  6. #81
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    You're so deluded to think Lebron is somehow on a higher moral plane than Jordan.
    Yeah it's like arguing who was morally better Hitler or Stalin.
    Last edited by daslicer; 09-24-2020 at 02:28 AM.

  7. #82
    It's ok to be a man Dirks_Finale's Avatar
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    You're so deluded to think Lebron is somehow on a higher moral plane than Jordan.

  8. #83
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    1. All I'm going to say is if we are going to talk about who was more charismatic, exciting as a player MJ wins hands down easily. Anybody who grew up during the 90's got into basketball because of MJ and wanted to be like him. I remember all the kids in school who got hooked on basketball when he played. Basketball has never been as popular as it was in the US during the 90's and that was because of MJ's appeal. Even your boy Manu was inspired by MJ.

    .
    A lot of people got into basketball in the 90s because of the Dream Team, itís not just MJ

  9. #84
    The Good Doctor Rummpd's Avatar
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    Lets just pray either LBJ loses this round or next along with his equally de able DaQuit (who sand-bagged his way out of of NO). Otherwise all we will her is mamba this and mamba that when James does not really give a **** about anyone but himself.

  10. #85
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    lebron is horrible person because he speaks his mind and hates injustice to black people

  11. #86
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    A lot of people got into basketball in the 90s because of the Dream Team, it’s not just MJ
    The majority of kids got into basketball because of MJ during the 90's. I lived in Boston up until I was 11 years old and I can say all the kids in my school were Jordan fans. Nobody cared about the Celtics that shows you how big of an appeal he had. My mom's family lives in LA. So I went there a lot during the summer time during 90's and I would see nothing but people wearing Jordan/Bulls gear everywhere. I knew kids in middle school and hschool that were geeks,nerds that would watch basketball solely because of Jordan that once he retired the second time they stopped watching. You can hate the man as much as you want, you can dispute him being the GOAT but to say he wasn't the driving force of getting people into basketball during the 90's is ludicrous.

  12. #87
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    Lebron is my god and I worship him every single second of the day. Don't you dare say anything insulting about my god because he can do no wrong. I will even drink his piss because it's holy water for me.
    Last edited by daslicer; 09-24-2020 at 11:30 AM.

  13. #88
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    1. All I'm going to say is if we are going to talk about who was more charismatic, exciting as a player MJ wins hands down easily. Anybody who grew up during the 90's got into basketball because of MJ and wanted to be like him. I remember all the kids in school who got hooked on basketball when he played. Basketball has never been as popular as it was in the US during the 90's and that was because of MJ's appeal. Even your boy Manu was inspired by MJ.

    2. Yes I will bring up China because he's equally a corporate just like Jordan not to be against them. That in itself should show you he's no better than Jordan when it comes to having the moral high ground.

    3. He went back to the Cavs because he saw it as an opportunity to win another ring with them having Kyrie and the number 1 pick. He used the Cavs as an opportunity to create another super team since he saw the Heat falling apart with Wade being past his prime. Don't be naive to think he came back because he wanted to do it out of the goodness of his heart. Also he came back to clear up the bad PR he had gotten for leaving the Cavs. It was a politically motivated move by Lebron. I give Lebron credit in this sense he's very good at playing politics and can pull the wool over the eyes of simpletons like you. The more than an athlete campaign was Nike's idea and Lebron ran with it. That should tell you in itself that Nike pushed Lebron to speak out on these issues. Yes they didn't force him to speak out but they gave him permission to do so. Would he been willing to speak out on them if they didn't tell him it was ok to do so? The answer is I doubt it. He would have been mum on speaking out just like he was with China knowing he could lose money.

    4. I'm a year older than Lebron so I know this country better than you in the sense I was born and raised here unlike you. I grew up during the 90's and it wasn't easy for athletes to speak out on social issues back then since there was no social media. If you spoke out your risked losing it all since you had no way to defend yourself plus the adult generations back then was Boomers,Xers,Silent Generation. All 3 of those generations were super conservative and supported conservative values. It's much easier to speak out when you now have the millennial generation/generation Z which is progressive and now they outnumber boomers/Xers. Only reason I bring this up is because now when you speak out on these social issues you have at least half the country backing you whereas back then a super majority was against you. For every hater Pop/Lebron gets they get people who support them equally so now I don't think it's hard to speak out in today's environment. You can say MJ is a gutless coward for not speaking out about racial issues during the 80's and 90's but that was the whole entire league. Even former players admit they were not willing to risk everything. I doubt Lebron would be courageous to speak out in a 90's like environment knowing he wouldn't be able to defend himself against media backlash and have to deal with an adult majority conservative culture.

    5. There is no courage in speaking out when you are financially protected. Pop and Lebron are not going to lose their job tomorrow for speaking out. Pop and Lebron are not going to have to worry about their safety tomorrow for speaking out. I really doubt they land in any trouble besides a bunch of conservatives and conservative media screaming online how much they hate them. Pop and Lebron speak out really for their own adulation and enjoyment.

    6. Courage in my eyes is Bill Russell speaking out against racism during the 60's knowing he was risking his own life. His house got broken into a few times when he was in Boston. I would also say Kareem speaking out on racism/civil rights during the 60's and 70's and dealing with a huge backlash socially and having to deal with a super conservative society. Fact is Kareem had no social life during the period and lived like hermit due to the way society was back then. Ali going to jail and giving up his prime years not to go to Vietnam was courageous. Courage is Jackie Robinson dealing with extreme racism when he first played in MLB and have to deal with endless death threats, racist crowds screaming slurs at him, opposing players believing he didn't belong there because of race. Lebron is not dealing with any of that adversity or risking losing financial security,safety,mental well being like those men dealt with.

    7. I don't think either MJ or Lebron are good people. One is a sociopath and the other is a narcissist.

  14. #89
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    The majority of kids got into basketball because of MJ during the 90's. I lived in Boston up until I was 11 years old and I can say all the kids in my school were Jordan fans. Nobody cared about the Celtics that shows you how big of an appeal he had. My mom's family lives in LA. So I went there a lot during the summer time during 90's and I would see nothing but people wearing Jordan/Bulls gear everywhere. I knew kids in middle school and hschool that were geeks,nerds that would watch basketball solely because of Jordan that once he retired the second time they stopped watching. You can hate the man as much as you want, you can dispute him being the GOAT but to say he wasn't the driving force of getting people into basketball during the 90's is ludicrous.
    Fair enough, but outside of the U.S , it was more the Dream Team that had an impact than Jordan

    Ususally the narrative is that Magic and Bird brought the NBA back, and Jordan took it globally in the 90s which is not true
    The way iI see it : North America - Jordan
    Rest of the World : 92 Olympic Team
    (I became a Spurs fan because of Robinson, I was able to watch the Amercias tournament that was held in Portland)

    Magic and Drexler pushing the ball was a thing of beauty

  15. #90
    6X ST MVP Spurtacular's Avatar
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    lebron is horrible person because he speaks his mind and hates injustice to black people
    Cherrypicking fashionable causes makes Lebron a great person!
    Leave Lebron alone!

  16. #91
    The Good Doctor Rummpd's Avatar
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    lebron is horrible person because he speaks his mind and hates injustice to black people
    Nothing to do with that actually he gets some props but is still Very unlikeable and seems to bend with what helps him financially eg China and Nike.

  17. #92
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    You're so deluded to think Lebron is somehow on a higher moral plane than Jordan.
    And we just take your word for it? Come on, spill the beans. Say what you really think.

  18. #93
    6X ST MVP Spurtacular's Avatar
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    And we just take your word for it? Come on, spill the beans. Say what you really think.
    Both s selling for the highest dollar.

    You're just mad Jordan wasn't a Democrat cog like Lebron is all.

  19. #94
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    1. All I'm going to say is if we are going to talk about who was more charismatic, exciting as a player MJ wins hands down easily. Anybody who grew up during the 90's got into basketball because of MJ and wanted to be like him. I remember all the kids in school who got hooked on basketball when he played. Basketball has never been as popular as it was in the US during the 90's and that was because of MJ's appeal. Even your boy Manu was inspired by MJ.

    2. Yes I will bring up China because he's equally a corporate just like Jordan not to be against them. That in itself should show you he's no better than Jordan when it comes to having the moral high ground.

    3. He went back to the Cavs because he saw it as an opportunity to win another ring with them having Kyrie and the number 1 pick. He used the Cavs as an opportunity to create another super team since he saw the Heat falling apart with Wade being past his prime. Don't be naive to think he came back because he wanted to do it out of the goodness of his heart. Also he came back to clear up the bad PR he had gotten for leaving the Cavs. It was a politically motivated move by Lebron. I give Lebron credit in this sense he's very good at playing politics and can pull the wool over the eyes of simpletons like you. The more than an athlete campaign was Nike's idea and Lebron ran with it. That should tell you in itself that Nike pushed Lebron to speak out on these issues. Yes they didn't force him to speak out but they gave him permission to do so. Would he been willing to speak out on them if they didn't tell him it was ok to do so? The answer is I doubt it. He would have been mum on speaking out just like he was with China knowing he could lose money.

    4. I'm a year older than Lebron so I know this country better than you in the sense I was born and raised here unlike you. I grew up during the 90's and it wasn't easy for athletes to speak out on social issues back then since there was no social media. If you spoke out your risked losing it all since you had no way to defend yourself plus the adult generations back then was Boomers,Xers,Silent Generation. All 3 of those generations were super conservative and supported conservative values. It's much easier to speak out when you now have the millennial generation/generation Z which is progressive and now they outnumber boomers/Xers. Only reason I bring this up is because now when you speak out on these social issues you have at least half the country backing you whereas back then a super majority was against you. For every hater Pop/Lebron gets they get people who support them equally so now I don't think it's hard to speak out in today's environment. You can say MJ is a gutless coward for not speaking out about racial issues during the 80's and 90's but that was the whole entire league. Even former players admit they were not willing to risk everything. I doubt Lebron would be courageous to speak out in a 90's like environment knowing he wouldn't be able to defend himself against media backlash and have to deal with an adult majority conservative culture.

    5. There is no courage in speaking out when you are financially protected. Pop and Lebron are not going to lose their job tomorrow for speaking out. Pop and Lebron are not going to have to worry about their safety tomorrow for speaking out. I really doubt they land in any trouble besides a bunch of conservatives and conservative media screaming online how much they hate them. Pop and Lebron speak out really for their own adulation and enjoyment.

    6. Courage in my eyes is Bill Russell speaking out against racism during the 60's knowing he was risking his own life. His house got broken into a few times when he was in Boston. I would also say Kareem speaking out on racism/civil rights during the 60's and 70's and dealing with a huge backlash socially and having to deal with a super conservative society. Fact is Kareem had no social life during the period and lived like hermit due to the way society was back then. Ali going to jail and giving up his prime years not to go to Vietnam was courageous. Courage is Jackie Robinson dealing with extreme racism when he first played in MLB and have to deal with endless death threats, racist crowds screaming slurs at him, opposing players believing he didn't belong there because of race. Lebron is not dealing with any of that adversity or risking losing financial security,safety,mental well being like those men dealt with.

    7. I don't think either MJ or Lebron are good people. One is a sociopath and the other is a narcissist.
    1. MJ was more talented if you ask me, and he was also way more ruthless. But again, you're focusing in the mid 90's not the entire body of work and what we know now. Sure, it's not fair to MJ because Lebron isn't there yet. But if, god willing, the Lakers airplane were to hit the side of a mountain today, it would be difficult to argue that Lebron was not the most charismatic and likeable of the two. As far as recognition, I think they're pretty much head to head at this point.

    2. Being a corporate is an indictment you can level on ANY player. They have, after all, short careers, and guys like MJ or Lebron that manage to build a brand and live off it are few and far between. Plus, this is a pivot. You weren't arguing about corporate s when it came to China, you were arguing about supporting a communist country that doesn't respect human rights. Now that's been presented to you that MJ didn't care about that either, we're pivoting to something else.

    3. He went to a rebuilding team. Kyrie was known to be talented but still a nobody in this league until he actually won that ring with Lebron (and once Lebron left, he suddenly stopped winning, funny how that works). They did NOT have the #1 pick either. They won their ring in 2016 and the top pick they had in the 2015 draft was #24. So instead of calling me a simpleton do your homework. But the Nike take is really the worse one of that entire paragraph. If you really think Nike preferred Lebron in a small, hole market like Cleveland instead of LA or New York, you know zero about marketing and sales.

    4. I happened to live here in the US during the 90's, and I mostly agree with your assessment of that period (Rodney King and OJ Simpson notwithstanding), but that doesn't explain why he was also silent the 2000s and 2010s? Let's stop pretending MJ only had a voice while he was playing. He's speaking out now and apparently people are listening? He just never cared, until it was simply untenable.

    5. Well, we disagree, I'm ok with that, ultimately this is very much opinion. IMHO, clearly this country is far from getting over racism in general. Because people now don't get lynched or ostracized, it doesn't make them any less courageous for speaking out. Sure, I totally agree we've advanced a ton since the 60s and 70s, and speaking out probably puts less at stake than it did back then, but that doesn't mean it's over, or done. The fact that people (rich or not rich) continue to get vilified by a large sector of the population for speaking their mind on race is clearly an unequivocal indicator that racism is alive and well.

  20. #95
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    Both s selling for the highest dollar.

    You're just mad Jordan wasn't a Democrat cog like Lebron is all.
    Why would that matter to me? I never once voted for a Democrat (so far anyways). This does prove a point I made earlier though, that while people like derp, who really doesn't hide his racism too well, do like Jordan much more than they do like Lebron, tbh...

    Plus I thoroughly enjoyed Jordan the player. And what I know about Jordan the person is what his teammates and people around him relayed to us, so him being a terrible person isn't really shocking news.

  21. #96
    6X ST MVP Spurtacular's Avatar
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    Why would that matter to me? I never once voted for a Democrat (so far anyways). This does prove a point I made earlier though, that while people like derp, who really doesn't hide his racism too well, do like Jordan much more than they do like Lebron, tbh...

    Plus I thoroughly enjoyed Jordan the player. And what I know about Jordan the person is what his teammates and people around him relayed to us, so him being a terrible person isn't really shocking news.
    I didn't know ChumpDumper was a big Jordan fan. Okay.

    As it is, you vote Democrat here every day. You can't disclaim that obvious bias. More hacky stuff from you.

    What can you expect from someone who needs to cry racism? Not much.

    Frankly, Pippen stayed with Jordan for six rings. Nobody has been that loyal to Lebron. Nor has Lebron been loyal to someone like that. In fact, Lebron told Bosh to hit the road after using him up. Kyrie didn't want any more of that after ringing either. Lebron finds people like AD desperate for rings to ride is all. And he plots with them to goldbrick like a favorite judge of yours.

  22. #97
    6X ST MVP Spurtacular's Avatar
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    Jordan traveled across the country to speak at Kobe's memorial.

    Lebron couldn't even tell the truth about how he was too busy smoking blunts to show up.

    https://nypost.com/2020/02/25/emotio...yant-memorial/

  23. #98
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    Didn't Pippen sign a long term contract with the Bulls?
    Wa mobility more restricted back then?

    I'm not sure it was loyalty tbh

  24. #99
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    1. MJ was more talented if you ask me, and he was also way more ruthless. But again, you're focusing in the mid 90's not the entire body of work and what we know now. Sure, it's not fair to MJ because Lebron isn't there yet. But if, god willing, the Lakers airplane were to hit the side of a mountain today, it would be difficult to argue that Lebron was not the most charismatic and likeable of the two. As far as recognition, I think they're pretty much head to head at this point.

    2. Being a corporate is an indictment you can level on ANY player. They have, after all, short careers, and guys like MJ or Lebron that manage to build a brand and live off it are few and far between. Plus, this is a pivot. You weren't arguing about corporate s when it came to China, you were arguing about supporting a communist country that doesn't respect human rights. Now that's been presented to you that MJ didn't care about that either, we're pivoting to something else.

    3. He went to a rebuilding team. Kyrie was known to be talented but still a nobody in this league until he actually won that ring with Lebron (and once Lebron left, he suddenly stopped winning, funny how that works). They did NOT have the #1 pick either. They won their ring in 2016 and the top pick they had in the 2015 draft was #24. So instead of calling me a simpleton do your homework. But the Nike take is really the worse one of that entire paragraph. If you really think Nike preferred Lebron in a small, hole market like Cleveland instead of LA or New York, you know zero about marketing and sales.

    4. I happened to live here in the US during the 90's, and I mostly agree with your assessment of that period (Rodney King and OJ Simpson notwithstanding), but that doesn't explain why he was also silent the 2000s and 2010s? Let's stop pretending MJ only had a voice while he was playing. He's speaking out now and apparently people are listening? He just never cared, until it was simply untenable.

    5. Well, we disagree, I'm ok with that, ultimately this is very much opinion. IMHO, clearly this country is far from getting over racism in general. Because people now don't get lynched or ostracized, it doesn't make them any less courageous for speaking out. Sure, I totally agree we've advanced a ton since the 60s and 70s, and speaking out probably puts less at stake than it did back then, but that doesn't mean it's over, or done. The fact that people (rich or not rich) continue to get vilified by a large sector of the population for speaking their mind on race is clearly an unequivocal indicator that racism is alive and well.
    1. You keep trying to shift the narrative to comparing Jordan's post career image to Lebron's career image right now. I"m comparing the way both player were perceived when they were playing by the public. When we compare their career images Jordan was by far more charismatic and popular compared to Lebron and that is definitely shown through the NBA getting record ratings that have never been equaled again. I know you will make excuses by saying the ratings are not as high compared to the 90's due to social media and people having other distractions but why is the NFL's ratings about the same as what they got during the 90's?

    Another interesting thing I have discovered is Jordan still has a high Q score of 37 and is popular among teenagers today according to Forbes. He also has an 82 percent awareness level in the US which is the second highest in the US for an athlete according to Forbes https://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbad.../#76965a075b15

    2. You are right I can call most players corporate s and that is why I don't respect most of them as people. It's fair game here. I look at most players the same way as I look at regular rich people which are people who are out for themselves and don't care about others. The only difference is a regular rich guy is not trying to lie to me that they are a saint while an athlete or celebrity is trying to sell me that lie. What do you mean that MJ didn't care about that? Are you implying I didn't know about MJ not caring about the sweatshop factories in Asia during the 90's. I have to laugh and say I have known about that since '96 when I was 13 from watching a Dateline interview with MJ in which he gave some bs answer to what he thinks about the sweatshops.

    3. He left the Heat in the summer of 2014. The Cavs had the number 1 pick in the summer of 2014. They drafted Wiggins and Lebron told them to trade Wiggins for Kevin Love. Proving my point again you are a simpleton since you just clearly forgot about this known fact or didn't find this in your research. Kyrie was already an established all-star by the time Lebron joined the Cavs. Not bad for Lebron he got to join a team that already had 2 young established all-stars. Kyrie may not have won without Lebron but in his 2 years in Boston the Celtics had winning records. You could also say Lebron hasn't won without Kyrie either granted it looks like he will now win with Davis.

    My Nike take is actually a great take since Lebron had a terrible Q score after he left Cleveland the first time. You know a Q score is a rating companies use to asses a celebrity/athlete brand's likability and appeal. According to the Q score Lebron was the sixth most disliked athlete in 2011 https://theundefeated.com/features/l...-the-decision/ . Lebron going back to Cleveland was a short term attempt to repair his damaged Q score and it worked. That was Nike's goal and they succeeded but a simpleton like you wouldn't be able to grasp that strategy.

    4. Well there was an event called 9/11 that happened in '01 which took away attention from race matters in the US and also social media was still not powerful enough to show all the bad things that were going on with racial injustice back then. Culturally the '00s was really about the war against terror. Nobody spoke out about race matters in the '00s and not even Lebron. He was drafted in '03 so he had 7 years to talk about it during that period but didn't. You can say he was young but today you have young players like Tatum, Jaylen Brown who are in their early 20's speaking out about racial matters. My point is it still wasn't popular to speak about racial matters until the 2010's when demographics in this country changed along with social media becoming a powerful enough tool to show racial injustice. You are right Jordan is only speaking out against it now because it's the popular thing to do now.

    5. I agree with you when it comes to this country being far from getting over racism in general. That is true but the cultural environment is still a lot better than what it was 20-30 years ago when people could easily turn a blind eye to racial injustice or shut down anybody who spoke out for it. I will still disagree with you on it being courageous to speak out about racial issues today but I will say it does serve a valuable purpose. A purpose in the sense that it prevents the conservative voice and culture from dominating like it once was able to do 20-30 years ago.

  25. #100
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    I didn't know ChumpDumper was a big Jordan fan. Okay.

    As it is, you vote Democrat here every day. You can't disclaim that obvious bias. More hacky stuff from you.

    What can you expect from someone who needs to cry racism? Not much.

    Frankly, Pippen stayed with Jordan for six rings. Nobody has been that loyal to Lebron. Nor has Lebron been loyal to someone like that. In fact, Lebron told Bosh to hit the road after using him up. Kyrie didn't want any more of that after ringing either. Lebron finds people like AD desperate for rings to ride is all. And he plots with them to goldbrick like a favorite judge of yours.
    Agreed Lebron is like a pimp. It's interesting Durant brought up a few years back that when you play with Lebron you are playing in a toxic environment and that's why players don't want to play with him. Like you said he lucked out with AD being a desperate ho but no one other than AD wanted to play with him the last few years.

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