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  1. #101
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    Why would that matter to me? I never once voted for a Democrat (so far anyways). This does prove a point I made earlier though, that while people like derp, who really doesn't hide his racism too well, do like Jordan much more than they do like Lebron, tbh...

    Plus I thoroughly enjoyed Jordan the player. And what I know about Jordan the person is what his teammates and people around him relayed to us, so him being a terrible person isn't really shocking news.
    A republican who doesn't respect Jordan for not speaking out on racial issues. That has to be an oxymoron.
    Last edited by daslicer; 09-25-2020 at 03:23 PM.

  2. #102
    6X ST MVP Spurtacular's Avatar
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    Didn't Pippen sign a long term contract with the Bulls?
    Wa mobility more restricted back then?

    I'm not sure it was loyalty tbh
    Yea, I'm recalling that dumb contract.

    I think that was Pippen's problem in general. He was insecure and often undervalued himself.

    He was loyal enough to not ask out. That still counts for something.

    He was loyal enough to not quit on Jordan like Gasol did with Kobe.

  3. #103
    Because I choose to. Neo.'s Avatar
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    when did pau quit on kobe?

    did he fake a migraine too? cant recall

  4. #104
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    1. You keep trying to shift the narrative to comparing Jordan's post career image to Lebron's career image right now. I"m comparing the way both player were perceived when they were playing by the public. When we compare their career images Jordan was by far more charismatic and popular compared to Lebron and that is definitely shown through the NBA getting record ratings that have never been equaled again. I know you will make excuses by saying the ratings are not as high compared to the 90's due to social media and people having other distractions but why is the NFL's ratings about the same as what they got during the 90's?

    Another interesting thing I have discovered is Jordan still has a high Q score of 37 and is popular among teenagers today according to Forbes. He also has an 82 percent awareness level in the US which is the second highest in the US for an athlete according to Forbes https://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbad.../#76965a075b15

    2. You are right I can call most players corporate s and that is why I don't respect most of them as people. It's fair game here. I look at most players the same way as I look at regular rich people which are people who are out for themselves and don't care about others. The only difference is a regular rich guy is not trying to lie to me that they are a saint while an athlete or celebrity is trying to sell me that lie. What do you mean that MJ didn't care about that? Are you implying I didn't know about MJ not caring about the sweatshop factories in Asia during the 90's. I have to laugh and say I have known about that since '96 when I was 13 from watching a Dateline interview with MJ in which he gave some bs answer to what he thinks about the sweatshops.

    3. He left the Heat in the summer of 2014. The Cavs had the number 1 pick in the summer of 2014. They drafted Wiggins and Lebron told them to trade Wiggins for Kevin Love. Proving my point again you are a simpleton since you just clearly forgot about this known fact or didn't find this in your research. Kyrie was already an established all-star by the time Lebron joined the Cavs. Not bad for Lebron he got to join a team that already had 2 young established all-stars. Kyrie may not have won without Lebron but in his 2 years in Boston the Celtics had winning records. You could also say Lebron hasn't won without Kyrie either granted it looks like he will now win with Davis.

    My Nike take is actually a great take since Lebron had a terrible Q score after he left Cleveland the first time. You know a Q score is a rating companies use to asses a celebrity/athlete brand's likability and appeal. According to the Q score Lebron was the sixth most disliked athlete in 2011 https://theundefeated.com/features/l...-the-decision/ . Lebron going back to Cleveland was a short term attempt to repair his damaged Q score and it worked. That was Nike's goal and they succeeded but a simpleton like you wouldn't be able to grasp that strategy.

    4. Well there was an event called 9/11 that happened in '01 which took away attention from race matters in the US and also social media was still not powerful enough to show all the bad things that were going on with racial injustice back then. Culturally the '00s was really about the war against terror. Nobody spoke out about race matters in the '00s and not even Lebron. He was drafted in '03 so he had 7 years to talk about it during that period but didn't. You can say he was young but today you have young players like Tatum, Jaylen Brown who are in their early 20's speaking out about racial matters. My point is it still wasn't popular to speak about racial matters until the 2010's when demographics in this country changed along with social media becoming a powerful enough tool to show racial injustice. You are right Jordan is only speaking out against it now because it's the popular thing to do now.

    5. I agree with you when it comes to this country being far from getting over racism in general. That is true but the cultural environment is still a lot better than what it was 20-30 years ago when people could easily turn a blind eye to racial injustice or shut down anybody who spoke out for it. I will still disagree with you on it being courageous to speak out about racial issues today but I will say it does serve a valuable purpose. A purpose in the sense that it prevents the conservative voice and culture from dominating like it once was able to do 20-30 years ago.
    1. It's not me who's trying to keep shifting the narrative, it's you. I clearly stated in the past 20-25 years, do you need a link to it? You even bolded it. That certainly includes MJ's post career image. I know it's inconvenient for the point you're trying to make, but we can't just pretend MJ's post career didn't happen and didn't affect how he is perceived. Let me help you out here, how about stating it's not a fair comparison at this time? That's fair. Now you're trying to shift the goalposts again, I didn't say one thing about popularity. Kobe or Chuck were popular, but well known ty individuals, thus why I didn't bring that up. I mentioned three specific traits: charisma, likeability and recognition. And the reason I did is because it goes directly to the point in the thread's le. I completely disagree about MJ being more charismatic. You had to wait 20 years after he retired for a curated TV special to learn about MJ or read the books from his coaches or teammates. You know everything about Lebron now. That's in part because of the times we live in, and in part because Lebron does have a relatively pristine personal record (compared to other players anyways).

    2. I'm implying you moved the goalposts, because now you want to make this about sweatshops when you're very aware that's not why you brought up the Lebron and China relationship in the first place. You tried to pull a Ted Cruz, but now you're backpedaling. You want to talk about that, or you want to keep spinning? MJ didn't care what type of government China ran nor their human rights track record. So why are we giving him a pass but we need to hold Lebron to a different standard? Heck, your made the point it was a much more conservative and communist-hating society back then, but nobody called him out about that? Again, I do credit MJ for playing the Uncle Tom role back then, certainly worked out in cases like that. I'm not defending Lebron when it comes to the sweatshop because I think it's wrong too.

    3. And this undermines your point and makes mine. They didn't win in 2015, and the fact that they had the #1 pick is because they sucked ass in 2014. So how is it that he went to Cleveland because, and I quote "he saw it as an opportunity to win another ring". He went to a team that was literally rebuilding. With him on board they eventually improved to the point that they had the #24 pick a year later, and eventually rang in '16. He's absolutely the sole reason a guy like Kevin Love went to the Cavs (which, BTW, undermines the contention that nobody wants to play with him). And thanks for the link, it says absolutely nothing about your Nike conspiracy about them telling him to do anything, lmao... Like I said, this all came from within Lebron to make things right, he knows he ed up with the decision. He certainly could've gone to much more stacked or popular teams that paid better at the time. The simpleton stuff is ridiculous. I don't think he's a saint, but you certainly need to do your homework. You wouldn't want to come across as a simpleton yourself.

    4. We had a black president elected in 2008, in case you forgot. There was plenty of racial talk back then, but not for Uncle Tom MJ apparently. Jeez, he even got a medal from the guy. Not a peep. Not a peep for the next 10+ years. Maybe he forgot? lol

    5. I think we're largely in agreement here then.

  5. #105
    The Good Doctor Rummpd's Avatar
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    You all have too much time on your hands

  6. #106
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    A republican who doesn't respect Jordan for not speaking out on racial issues. That has to be an oxymoron.
    But he doesn't hate MJ. He certainly didn't start a thread like this one about him. He hates Lebron though, that much is clear.

  7. #107
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    You all have too much time on your hands
    What are we supposed to be talking about? How the splash bros will make a comeback? Or laugh at Kawhi for the 12908293802932 time?

  8. #108
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    But he doesn't hate MJ. He certainly didn't start a thread like this one about him. He hates Lebron though, that much is clear.
    I'm referring to you since you vote republican.

  9. #109
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    1. It's not me who's trying to keep shifting the narrative, it's you. I clearly stated in the past 20-25 years, do you need a link to it? You even bolded it. That certainly includes MJ's post career image. I know it's inconvenient for the point you're trying to make, but we can't just pretend MJ's post career didn't happen and didn't affect how he is perceived. Let me help you out here, how about stating it's not a fair comparison at this time? That's fair. Now you're trying to shift the goalposts again, I didn't say one thing about popularity. Kobe or Chuck were popular, but well known ty individuals, thus why I didn't bring that up. I mentioned three specific traits: charisma, likeability and recognition. And the reason I did is because it goes directly to the point in the thread's le. I completely disagree about MJ being more charismatic. You had to wait 20 years after he retired for a curated TV special to learn about MJ or read the books from his coaches or teammates. You know everything about Lebron now. That's in part because of the times we live in, and in part because Lebron does have a relatively pristine personal record (compared to other players anyways).

    2. I'm implying you moved the goalposts, because now you want to make this about sweatshops when you're very aware that's not why you brought up the Lebron and China relationship in the first place. You tried to pull a Ted Cruz, but now you're backpedaling. You want to talk about that, or you want to keep spinning? MJ didn't care what type of government China ran nor their human rights track record. So why are we giving him a pass but we need to hold Lebron to a different standard? Heck, your made the point it was a much more conservative and communist-hating society back then, but nobody called him out about that? Again, I do credit MJ for playing the Uncle Tom role back then, certainly worked out in cases like that. I'm not defending Lebron when it comes to the sweatshop because I think it's wrong too.

    3. And this undermines your point and makes mine. They didn't win in 2015, and the fact that they had the #1 pick is because they sucked ass in 2014. So how is it that he went to Cleveland because, and I quote "he saw it as an opportunity to win another ring". He went to a team that was literally rebuilding. With him on board they eventually improved to the point that they had the #24 pick a year later, and eventually rang in '16. He's absolutely the sole reason a guy like Kevin Love went to the Cavs (which, BTW, undermines the contention that nobody wants to play with him). And thanks for the link, it says absolutely nothing about your Nike conspiracy about them telling him to do anything, lmao... Like I said, this all came from within Lebron to make things right, he knows he ed up with the decision. He certainly could've gone to much more stacked or popular teams that paid better at the time. The simpleton stuff is ridiculous. I don't think he's a saint, but you certainly need to do your homework. You wouldn't want to come across as a simpleton yourself.

    4. We had a black president elected in 2008, in case you forgot. There was plenty of racial talk back then, but not for Uncle Tom MJ apparently. Jeez, he even got a medal from the guy. Not a peep. Not a peep for the next 10+ years. Maybe he forgot? lol

    5. I think we're largely in agreement here then.
    1. If you put away your fandom for a minute, Lebron is easily the most charismatic, recognizable and likeable player in the league in the past 20-25 years, tbh... This exactly what you said and I think most people would think you would have implied career and not post career with that statement 25 years ago would go back to '95 and I would say from '95-'98 MJ had charisma,recognizably, and likability that hasn't been matched since then. The Q score measures charisma,recognizably, and likability and Jordan had a higher Q score than Lebron. He still has a higher Q score despite his post career negativity of being uncle Tom. You just can't admit you were wrong. What I find even more interesting is I was reading an article that stated Curry actually has the highest Q score of a current NBA player. So Lebron is not even the most likable, charismatic player out of his own generation.

    Defintion of charisma is compelling attractiveness or charm that can inspire devotion in others. You can say Jordan was a rotten teammate but no one cared about that stuff during the 90's. Everyone loved him, worshiped him during that time period. I have never seen Lebron get the godlike worship MJ got during the 90's. I can't say he's more charismatic than MJ was.

    2. I'm done arguing this point.

    3. Fact is they had the number 1 pick and Kyrie in 2014. That's why Lebron went there. Do you honestly believe he's going there if they didn't have Kyrie and the number 1 pick. They got to the finals in 2015 but you left that out on purpose. Don't be stupid we know they would have won it all in 2015 had Kyrie had not gotten injured in the finals and Love getting injured before the finals. They were not a rebuilding team but were a team that was built to win from the get go when they got Love and Kyrie. They won it all in 2016 which shows you they were a team that was built to win right away. Also Love didn't go to the Cavs he got traded to the Cavs. Davis is the only guy I have seen who actually wanted to play with Lebron since Wade in Miami. I posted the article to show you how bad of Q score he had before he went back to the Cavs so you could see where I got the information from. You are proving again to be a simpleton.

    4. Nice deflection great job. Well I will deflect to by saying why didn't Lebron speak out on racial issues in 2008 or any other NBA players speak out? We all know why that is because social media didn't take off until the the start of the 2010's and that's when it became in style to do it. Lebron didn't voice any opinions on racial issues until 2012 when the Trayvon Martin shooting happened.

  10. #110
    6X ST MVP Spurtacular's Avatar
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    when did pau quit on kobe?

    did he fake a migraine too? cant recall
    Pretty much for the entire 2011 season. That's when Kobe made his "time to put your big boy pants on" comment.
    Pau was sick of winning sh** for Kobe's glory. He didn't want to get Kobe a second three-peat and have to hear about how he's on "GOAT" Jordan's level.

  11. #111
    6X ST MVP Spurtacular's Avatar
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    And this undermines your point and makes mine. They didn't win in 2015, and the fact that they had the #1 pick is because they sucked ass in 2014. So how is it that he went to Cleveland because, and I quote "he saw it as an opportunity to win another ring". He went to a team that was literally rebuilding.
    No. He went to a team that was clearly on the upswing and would have three number one overall draft choice players and the upcoming number one overall pick (more rigging for Lebron btw).
    He left the team that was rebuilding after Bosh jetted and Wade was getting too old.
    Love that he tricked them into taking a sh** draft choice before bailing on them.

  12. #112
    Because I choose to. Neo.'s Avatar
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    Pretty much for the entire 2011 season. That's when Kobe made his "time to put your big boy pants on" comment.
    Pau was sick of winning sh** for Kobe's glory. He didn't want to get Kobe a second three-peat and have to hear about how he's on "GOAT" Jordan's level.
    oh ok

  13. #113
    6X ST MVP Spurtacular's Avatar
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    You're is weak. I'll remember that for next time when I don't bother.

  14. #114
    Because I choose to. Neo.'s Avatar
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    You're is weak. I'll remember that for next time when I don't bother.
    lol youre the one making stuff up

  15. #115
    6X ST MVP Spurtacular's Avatar
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    lol youre the one making stuff up
    I hurt your feelings. That's fine. Off you go.

  16. #116
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    Yea, I'm recalling that dumb contract.

    I think that was Pippen's problem in general. He was insecure and often undervalued himself.

    He was loyal enough to not ask out. That still counts for something.

    He was loyal enough to not quit on Jordan like Gasol did with Kobe.
    He asked for a trade lol

  17. #117
    Because I choose to. Neo.'s Avatar
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    I hurt your feelings. That's fine. Off you go.
    then prove what you had to say

  18. #118
    6X ST MVP Spurtacular's Avatar
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    then prove what you had to say
    I told you straight up. Your is weak.

  19. #119
    6X ST MVP Spurtacular's Avatar
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    He asked for a trade lol
    What year? Was it when they were about to trade him for Kemp?

  20. #120
    Because I choose to. Neo.'s Avatar
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    I told you straight up. Your is weak.
    you're such a moron

    I was referring to your claims about pau

  21. #121
    6X ST MVP Spurtacular's Avatar
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    you're such a moron

    I was referring to your claims about pau
    I know what you were referring to, moron.

    Your maxi pad is overflowing.

  22. #122
    Because I choose to. Neo.'s Avatar
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    I know what you were referring to, moron.

    Your maxi pad is overflowing.
    so you knew

    yet you still are avoiding it

    why so angry?

  23. #123
    6X ST MVP Spurtacular's Avatar
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    so you knew

    yet you still are avoiding it

    why so angry?
    Was in the LA market for it. Watched Pau go in lower gears cos he was sick of the diva.

    You think it's just happenstance that the back-to-back champs got swept?

  24. #124
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    I'm referring to you since you vote republican.
    Who said I vote republican? Maybe I don't like what either party have to offer.

  25. #125
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    Who said I vote republican? Maybe I don't like what either party have to offer.
    You mentioned in one of your previous posts in this thread that you never voted for a democrat which would imply you voted republican granted you could have been a third party voter but I doubt it.

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