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  1. #51
    Veteran hater's Avatar
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    Yup. We've already seen it this week. Trump tried to send his goons into a Philadelphia voting precinct to "poll watch." After they weren't allowed in, all Trump did was cry about it on twitter.
    key being "they were not allowed..."

  2. #52
    4-25-20 Will Hunting's Avatar
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    key being "they were not allowed..."
    I know. I was agreeing with you dude...

  3. #53
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    I know. I was agreeing with you dude...

  4. #54
    4-25-20 Will Hunting's Avatar
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    Fortunately as ed up as the cons ution is in other respects, the founding fathers did a pretty good job making it so elections were handled at the state/county level and very disconnected from the president.

    Sure we've had situations like Florida 2000 where a Republican governor and secretary of state created an intentionally confusing ballot to help one candidate over the other, but it's actually remarkable how this country's election integrity has rarely ever been an issue prior to Trump.

  5. #55
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    But Bernie is an atheist.
    Based

  6. #56
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Just pointing out that Trump's arguments were stronger and Biden, on the defensive, did not make a strong defensive retort to this besides "no evidence, blah blah blah"... 'no evidence' is not exoneration; he did not identify specific strategies that would prove to the US people that mail-in would be a 100% fraud-proof method of voting, which is what a lot of people including myself were looking for.

    Also, early voting all the way into September is a farce, and should never happen again. COVID or not, it shouldn't have happened this time. Early voting should be a 2 week maximum and ALL VOTES MUST BE IN by Election Night or they should not count. Absentee ballots from the military overseas can be sent a few weeks early so they can get to the appropriate state ballot by or before Election Night. But there is no way that states shouldn't be able to be called by midnight local time on Election Night.
    There's no evidence that mail-in voting leads to wide scale fraud.

    None.

    Zero.

    Zip.

    Zilch.

    Nada.

    Nein.

    Empty Set.

    Trumps brainpan.

    Thing about large, widespread fraud is that it leaves a lot of ing evidence.

    Do you have any ing evidence of wide-spread fraud? Not talking about a few cases here and there, but systematic, large-scale fraud? I call bull . Link or walk.

  7. #57
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  8. #58
    bandwagoner fans suck ducks's Avatar
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    Voters, for the most part, “felt like nobody won” the first presidential debate between President Trump and Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden, pollster Lee Carter told “Fox & Friends” on Wednesday.

    “When I asked who they thought won last night, a third said Biden, a third said Trump and a third said no one,” Carter told host Steve Doocy.

    “I’ve never seen a third of people who watched a debate think no one won and I think that was the general sentiment of independent voters, I think that was the general sentiment of people who were undecided.”

    She went on to say, “I think if you were already shored up on Trump, you thought you’d see the best in him. If you’re shored up on Biden, you saw the best of him, but for the most part, I think people really felt like nobody won last night.”

    Carter, the president of Maslansky & Partners, broadcast her "voter dials," which assessed the real-time reactions to the first presidential debate from voters across the political spectrum, rating candidates' statements from A to F.

    Carter said voters analyzed the moment when Biden said, “I'm the Democratic Party right now” when talking about health care.

    During Tuesday night’s debate Biden said, “One of the big debates we had with 23 of my colleagues trying to win the nomination that I won were saying that Biden wanted to allow people to have private insurance still. They can. They do. They will under my proposal.”

    Trump hit back, “That’s not what you said and that’s not what your party has said.”

    “That is simply a lie,” Biden responded.

    Martha MacCallum and Bret Baier discuss Tuesday night's presidential debateVideo
    Trump then said, “Your party wants to go socialist.”

    “The party is me,” Biden said in response. “Right now I am the Democratic Party.”

    “They are going to dominate you, Joe, you know that,” Trump then said.

    “I am the Democratic Party right now,” Biden said again. “The platform of the Democratic Party is what I, in fact, approved of.”

    Doocy noted that the blue line, which represents Democrats, “took a dip” during those statements.

    “That's bad for him,” Doocy said.

    “It is,” Carter said in response. “But at the end of the day, it was very, very important for him to clarify this.”

    “People were not sure on which Joe Biden they’re getting,” she continued. “Is it going to be a progressive Joe Biden, a moderate Joe Biden, the Joe Biden they used to know, the Joe Biden that seems to be moving toward the left?”

    “This is a really important moment for him and so Democrats gave it a B plus, Independents a C minus, Republicans, not surprisingly, an F,” Carter noted.

    TRUMP-BIDEN PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE IN CLEVELAND: TOP 5 MOMENTS

    She stressed that “it was very important for Joe Biden to clarify who he was and what his candidacy was about.”

    “This is the closest that people really got to an answer on what he’s all about,” Carter continued.

    Doocy noted that President Trump “did very well with his base when he was talking about reopening the economy” as well as with independent voters.

    During the debate Trump encouraged states to remain open, equating the shutdowns to “being in prison.”

    “You look at what is going on with divorce, look at what is going on with alcoholism and drugs,” Trump said. “It's a very, very sad thing and he’ll [Biden will] close down the whole country. This guy will close down the whole country and destroy our country.”

    Carter said that Republicans gave Trump an A on his economic stance, Independent voters gave him a B and Democrats gave him an F grade.

    “This is not that surprising to me,” Carter said. “One of the worst moments that I have tested in Biden so far is when he said if things get bad again, I will shut it down. People do not want the economy to shut all the way down again.”

    She stressed that people want to be “safe” and “protected,” but “want the economy open.”

    Carter also analyzed the moment when Biden refused to answer the question about whether he supports packing the Supreme Court, a proposal that would expand the number of seats in the high court and allow Democrats to confirm more liberal justices.

  9. #59
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    Didnt watch the show (had much better things to do) but this is my assessment from what I read:
    - Dump was an obnoxious child interrupting everyone (even himself ). Really unlikeable.
    - Biden did cross the very low bar that was set, and also thats Dumps fault as he helped lower that bar.
    - Dump bailed out Biden when he started rambling. A mistake
    - Biden missed many chances to deliver a power punch after Dump opened himself up with a stupid statement or lie. Missed chances, but hes senile so this is on the DNC
    - the debate outcome is not much different than Hillary vs Trump in 16. Both teams lost. Technical double knockout in the 12th
    - Dump is really really unlikeable. I am secretly rooting for a Biden win just to see him gtfo
    - my call stands. Trump will win 2020
    You had better things to do like posting here all night?

  10. #60
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    I am making stock bets in my Roth that Democrats sweep the presidency and senate.

  11. #61
    4-25-20 Will Hunting's Avatar
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    I am making stock bets in my Roth that Democrats sweep the presidency and senate.
    Smart, the betting markets shifted big in the last 24 hours, Biden went from a 54% chance to a 60% chance (RCP average). My guess is a lot of people were just waiting to make sure he could get through a debate without drooling on himself before betting that he'd win.

  12. #62
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    Joe Biden won the debate, mostly by default, because Trump couldn't stop shooting himself in the foot last night.
    Lay off the CNN / MSNBC.

  13. #63
    Enemy of the System Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    I am making stock bets in my Roth that Democrats sweep the presidency and senate.
    I don't think they win the Senate even if Biden and Harris win. I believe Joni Ernst and Thom Tillis hold and Biden wins by edging out in AZ, MI, PA but still losing FL, NC, OH to Trump.

  14. #64
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    I think it was an L for Trump in that it could've been a much bigger W for him.

  15. #65
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    trump definitely could have won... biden didnt really do much to stand out or have any memorable moments. almost like he was just stuck in neutral the whole time and just waiting for trump to self destruct. basically bringing the basement strategy to the debate, letting trump get all the attention.

    and at least for one debate, it worked. trump looked completely unhinged. biden could have done more to land shots and take advantage of trump's buffoonery, but just stayed passive to a fault

  16. #66
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    But Bernie is an atheist.
    Ergo

  17. #67
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    I thought the debate was great. It was like those two old men on the Muppets fighting about inane .

  18. #68
    Enemy of the System Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    trump definitely could have won... biden didnt really do much to stand out or have any memorable moments. almost like he was just stuck in neutral the whole time and just waiting for trump to self destruct. basically bringing the basement strategy to the debate, letting trump get all the attention.

    and at least for one debate, it worked. trump looked completely unhinged. biden could have done more to land shots and take advantage of trump's buffoonery, but just stayed passive to a fault
    Trump broke the rules and treated chris wallace like a dog. If he was an athlete and Wallace was a referee, he would have been ejected by the second stanza.

  19. #69
    Believe. Dirks_Finale's Avatar
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    I don't think they win the Senate even if Biden and Harris win. I believe Joni Ernst and Thom Tillis hold and Biden wins by edging out in AZ, MI, PA but still losing FL, NC, OH to Trump.
    Tillis is still down 6 in the RCP average. Wish I could share in your optimism.

  20. #70
    Believe. Dirks_Finale's Avatar
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    I am making stock bets in my Roth that Democrats sweep the presidency and senate.
    I'm awaiting that sneaky October surprise that the Republicans are gonna drop on Biden around Oct 25th or so.

    If they have nothing, then this race looks to be over, tbh. Harris will be the President with free reign to do whatever she wants. They'll convert part of the White House into a bingo hall/nursing home and lock Joe in it for the next 4 years.

  21. #71
    4-25-20 Will Hunting's Avatar
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    Tillis is still down 6 in the RCP average. Wish I could share in your optimism.
    He has all the red flags of a candidate who’s in trouble. In bent who can’t get above 45% in polls and barely won his race 6 years ago in what was a waive year for his party. Was never a popular or well liked candidate.

    All the in bent senators this year are just getting reemed on healthcare as far as I can tell. The Democrats got killed in 2010 and 2014 midterms over Obamacare, but the Republicans tried repealing it in such a haphazard way made it become popular afterwards. The Iowa senate debate earlier this week was a total show but the one part where one candidate had a clear advantage was Greenfield destroying Ernst on healthcare.

    I still think democrats need to pull 1-2 less likely races out of their ass if they want to nix the filibuster and get stuff done. A 50-51 senate majority isn’t going to be enough for them.

  22. #72
    4-25-20 Will Hunting's Avatar
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    I'm awaiting that sneaky October surprise that the Republicans are gonna drop on Biden around Oct 25th or so.

    If they have nothing, then this race looks to be over, tbh. Harris will be the President with free reign to do whatever she wants. They'll convert part of the White House into a bingo hall/nursing home and lock Joe in it for the next 4 years.
    Biden just doesn’t seem like someone where that material is out there. Outside of the fact he’s rich it seems like his life has been pretty ordinary. As much as he gets grabby with women who he’s posing for a photo with I don’t see him sneaking out on his wife or anything like that.

    I have a hunch we’ll get a few more surprises on Trump though. The media is out to get him at this point and Biden’s campaign would love to hammer the nail into the coffin. The wet dream scenario would be a story about him forcing a woman to get an abortion.

  23. #73
    Believe. Dirks_Finale's Avatar
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    He does appear to be pretty vanilla. Less than 50% chance they have dirt on him. That's why a debate 1 draw for Trump has pretty much sunk his ship, tbh.

    Biden just doesn’t seem like someone where that material is out there. Outside of the fact he’s rich it seems like his life has been pretty ordinary. As much as he gets grabby with women who he’s posing for a photo with I don’t see him sneaking out on his wife or anything like that.

    I have a hunch we’ll get a few more surprises on Trump though. The media is out to get him at this point and Biden’s campaign would love to hammer the nail into the coffin. The wet dream scenario would be a story about him forcing a woman to get an abortion.

  24. #74
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    Fortunately as ed up as the cons ution is in other respects, the founding fathers did a pretty good job making it so elections were handled at the state/county level and very disconnected from the president.

    Sure we've had situations like Florida 2000 where a Republican governor and secretary of state created an intentionally confusing ballot to help one candidate over the other, but it's actually remarkable how this country's election integrity has rarely ever been an issue prior to Trump.
    Palm Beach County's butterfly ballots

    Simulation of the "butterfly ballot", seen at an angle
    Many voters in Palm Beach County who intended to vote for Gore actually marked their ballots for Pat Buchanan or spoiled their ballots because they found the ballot's layout to be confusing. The ballot displayed the list of presidential running-mate pairs alternately across two adjacent pages, with a column of punch spaces down the middle. Bush's name appeared at the top of the ballot, sparing most Bush voters from error. About 19,000 ballots were spoiled because of overvotes (two votes in the same race), compared to 3000 in 1996.[16]:215–221 According to a 2001 study in the American Political Science Review, the voting errors caused by the butterfly ballot cost Gore the election: "Had PBC used a ballot format in the presidential race that did not lead to systematic biased voting errors, our findings suggest that, other things equal, Al Gore would have won a majority of the officially certified votes in Florida."[45]

    On The Today Show of November 9, 2000, Buchanan said, "When I took one look at that ballot on Election Night ... it's very easy for me to see how someone could have voted for me in the belief they voted for Al Gore."[46] He, unlike the voters, did not have the opportunity to see the ballot before Election Day.

    Although Bush spokesman Ari Fleischer said on November 9 that "Palm Beach County is a Pat Buchanan stronghold and that's why Pat Buchanan received 3,407 votes there",[47] Buchanan's Florida coordinator, Jim McConnell, responded by calling that "nonsense", and Jim Cunningham, chairman of the executive committee of Palm Beach County's Reform Party, responded, "I don't think so. Not from where I'm sitting and what I'm looking at." Cunningham estimated the number of Buchanan supporters in Palm Beach County to be between 400 and 500. Asked how many votes he would guess Buchanan legitimately received in Palm Beach County, he said, "I think 1,000 would be generous. Do I believe that these people inadvertently cast their votes for Pat Buchanan? Yes, I do. We have to believe that based on the vote totals elsewhere."[48]

    The ballot had been redesigned earlier that year by Theresa LePore (Supervisor of Elections and member of the Democratic Party). She said that she used both sides of the ballot in order to make the candidate names larger so the county's elderly residents could more easily see the names.[49]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_U...unt_in_Florida

  25. #75
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    Smart, the betting markets shifted big in the last 24 hours, Biden went from a 54% chance to a 60% chance (RCP average). My guess is a lot of people were just waiting to make sure he could get through a debate without drooling on himself before betting that he'd win.
    Just like last time huh? Those markets only reflect the preferences of the people who participate in them. They have no predictive value and were dead wrong last time. The smart gambler would bet on Trump since you stand to make a lot more money.

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