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  1. #26
    The Good Doctor Rummpd's Avatar
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    TD one of only few stars to go games one year. At the end of day LBJ is a truly great baller but one overly idolized by BSPN and SI who feasted on pathetic East for years and never had to go through Shaq or Kobe or even Suns or even now Clips to get to finals and remains 4-6 in those despite peripatetic ways and setting things up to win as much as possible. Finally based on his ageless performance, his lack of injuries and his build will always be su ious he is using something. Give me Duncan starting a team period better winner and like Russell that is what counts.

  2. #27
    Believe. Dirks_Finale's Avatar
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  3. #28
    The Good Doctor Rummpd's Avatar
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    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YaKILPV78DU

    Not proof but lays out what many feel may be true

  4. #29
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    Jordan took PEDs too tbh

  5. #30
    Every game is game 1 Seventyniner's Avatar
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    If LeBron's Cavs and Heat were in the West and Duncan's Spurs were in the East for their respective careers, would Duncan have had more Finals appearances than LeBron? The East has been the inferior conference for a long time.

  6. #31
    Dragon style JamStone's Avatar
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    If LeBron's Cavs and Heat were in the West and Duncan's Spurs were in the East for their respective careers, would Duncan have had more Finals appearances than LeBron? The East has been the inferior conference for a long time.
    The if game is somewhat charming and fun, but also unverifiable conjecture to give the impression it’s pseudo fact or a real argument based on real facts. It’s neither. Wait... oh but if LeBron played in the West. And if Jordan was born 10 years earlier and his 90s prime was in the Magic-Bird dominated 80s. Well if Allen Iverson were 6’6.

    If changes facts. If is not reality. If is fiction.

    So flip it and consider a different if.

    If Duncan were drafted by Cleveland and LeBron drafted by San Antonio, would Duncan have stayed in Cleveland his entire career and finished with zero les, and would LeBron have hopped from team to team even after winning multiple rings with the Spurs?

    If whatever changes, can LeBron please not be as good as he’s been... *tear*

  7. #32
    The Good Doctor Rummpd's Avatar
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    Jordan took PEDs too tbh
    May have

  8. #33
    coffee's for closers FrostKing's Avatar
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    Ray Allen miracle from being 0-3

  9. #34
    coffee's for closers FrostKing's Avatar
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    Jordan took PEDs too tbh
    At the Poker table

  10. #35
    Because I choose to. Neo.'s Avatar
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    i love how its "may have" when theres no proof with mj, but with lebron its an absolute certainty despite there also being no proof

  11. #36
    Because I choose to. Neo.'s Avatar
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    Ray Allen miracle from being 0-3
    0-3 at what?

  12. #37
    The Good Doctor Rummpd's Avatar
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    i love how its "may have" when theres no proof with mj, but with lebron its an absolute certainty despite there also being no proof
    LBJ defying age with a build far superior to Jordan and the ability to use these agents and get away with it is likely higher. Why the love of LBJ?

  13. #38
    Because I choose to. Neo.'s Avatar
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    LBJ defying age with a build far superior to Jordan and the ability to use these agents and get away with it is likely higher. Why the love of LBJ?
    i never said lebron didn't or doesn't use. i honestly dont know. i understand why people might think he is. however, with there being no proof, i have no reason to think he is. he honestly just seems like a freakish natural athlete, like bo jackson. some people are simply like that. and at this point of his career, its not just his athleticism that gets him by, hes simply smarter than everyone he plays against, and that's always been probably his best basketball quality. even in games, he doesnt just mindlessly throw his body around wrecklessly, hes very careful and calculated in his approach to the game, especially during the regular season.

    we also know its well do ented that lebron has a level of focus to his diet, workout, routines, etc... that few people have ever seen before

    would i be shocked if he used PEDs? no. but then again, i wouldn't be shocked if 98% of athletes have used PEDs at some point of their career, including timmy.

  14. #39
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    Ray Allen miracle from being 0-3
    Jordan was bailed out by Kerr. Paxson, Armstrong and Stern , find another narrative

  15. #40
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    At worst, LeBron is a top 4 player in NBA history, depending how you view Wilt. Top 3 with Jordan and Kareem is legitimate. At best, Duncan is bottom half of top 10, probably closer to 10 than 5.

    Whatever “gap” you think there is, however great or small you believe, the gap is there and it’s real and it’s significant enough that it’s clear LeBron had a greater career. Duncan’s career is great, HOF, one of a handful of the very best. LeBron’s career should go down as one of the top 2-3 best careers ever, even with his Finals record.

    You can talk about steroids all you want. Dwyane Wade looked like he juiced too with his Family Guy cartoon jawline. He didn’t have a top 10 NBA career, let alone a top 3. Joakim Noah, Rashard Lewis, Lindsey Hunter, Hedo Turkogku, OJ Mayo, Darius Miles... all suspended by the league for some form of PED use. You don’t see any of those guys getting casted for a Hall of Fame bust. The athletic freaks like Stromile Swift and Corey Maggette never were in position to chase down Jordan and Kareem. Steroids or not, if a player doesn’t have the skill and IQ and will to match, then that player doesn’t do what LeBron has done for 17 seasons.

    The four years Duncan led the league in defensive rating, he finished 4th, 6th, 3rd, and 6th in DPOY voting, not even one top 2 finish. In 2007, he has an argument in third place with Camby winning the award that he could have maybe won it. The other three years he wasn’t even a legitimate contender for the award, let alone was robbed of it. Defensive rating is a nice stat to look at as long as you understand that it’s at least partially dependent on the performance of teammates and the team as a whole. The better your teammates are defensively and how the team defends collectively really impact a stat like DR. Could Duncan have won a DPOY in his career? Sure. He was good enough defensively. Was the voting messed up? Sure, just like the League MVP where guys like Nash and Curry are multiple winners and Shaq only has one. It is what it is. You shouldn’t make arguments that a player be considered better because he “should have” won an award he didn’t win. It’s a ty argument.
    Where do you rank Bird and Magic?

  16. #41
    The Good Doctor Rummpd's Avatar
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    Kareem - real GOAT from UCLA on
    Jordan
    Russell
    Wilt - could flip with Russell but rings count at least some
    Bird - can move down 2 but at his best is here
    LBJ
    Duncan
    Magic - career shortened or a spot or two higher
    Big O
    Shaq
    Kobe
    Hakeem

  17. #42
    coffee's for closers FrostKing's Avatar
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    Kareem - real GOAT from UCLA on
    Jordan
    Russell
    Wilt - could flip with Russell but rings count at least some
    Bird - can move down 2 but at his best is here
    LBJ
    Duncan
    Magic - career shortened or a spot or two higher
    Big O
    Shaq
    Kobe
    Hakeem
    I like your list

    Magic or LeBron is the decision. I have Bird still above both but it is close. Larry and Duncan are still the gold standard for Forwards but LeBron has opportunity to overtake.

  18. #43
    Dragon style JamStone's Avatar
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    Where do you rank Bird and Magic?
    Somewhere in the 5-7 range for both.

    I view the two having very similar careers, similar individual success, similar team success, careers similarly cut short (Magic actually played more regular season games than Bird in the same number of seasons), similar cult impact on the game. I’d probably have Magic edge Bird slightly because I think at his height playing lead guard was revolutionary at the time. But I would not argue much with anyone suggesting Bird was better. I think the two are a coin toss tbh.

  19. #44
    Mario GÖDze Bynumite's Avatar
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    Lebron is more talented than Duncan. And besides rings, Lebron has pretty much surpassed Duncan in every other category accomplishment wise. So I wouldn't mind someone saying Lebron is higher all time. But if I had to start a team? I'm picking Duncan. Duncan's loyal while Lebron's going to team hop the second he can.
    If you're starting a new team, statistically you'd be better off betting on the guy that did it on 3 separate teams, just saying

  20. #45
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    Somewhere in the 5-7 range for both.

    I view the two having very similar careers, similar individual success, similar team success, careers similarly cut short (Magic actually played more regular season games than Bird in the same number of seasons), similar cult impact on the game. I’d probably have Magic edge Bird slightly because I think at his height playing lead guard was revolutionary at the time. But I would not argue much with anyone suggesting Bird was better. I think the two are a coin toss tbh.
    Fair enough
    Prime for prime I have Bird and I rank him higher
    But again as you said, if’s are hypothetical

  21. #46
    EAT IT!!! Kawhitstorm's Avatar
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    Jordan was bailed out by Kerr. Paxson, Armstrong and Stern , find another narrative
    Jordan made them a household name. Can’t say the same for Bosh/Wade/Allen, Kyrie/Love/JR or Davis/Rondo/Dwert.

  22. #47
    The Good Doctor Rummpd's Avatar
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    If you're starting a new team, statistically you'd be better off betting on the guy that did it on 3 separate teams, just saying
    Stacking the deck in advance or even missing playoffs till savior AD arrived.

  23. #48
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    Jordan made them a household name. Can’t say the same for Bosh/Wade/Allen, Kyrie/Love/JR or Davis/Rondo/Dwert.
    Let’s see , Lebron got bailed out by a HOFer

    Jordan got bailed out by one dimensional scrubs like BJ, Paxson or Kerr
    That’s not better

  24. #49
    Every game is game 1 Seventyniner's Avatar
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    The if game is somewhat charming and fun, but also unverifiable conjecture to give the impression it’s pseudo fact or a real argument based on real facts. It’s neither. Wait... oh but if LeBron played in the West. And if Jordan was born 10 years earlier and his 90s prime was in the Magic-Bird dominated 80s. Well if Allen Iverson were 6’6.

    If changes facts. If is not reality. If is fiction.

    So flip it and consider a different if.

    If Duncan were drafted by Cleveland and LeBron drafted by San Antonio, would Duncan have stayed in Cleveland his entire career and finished with zero les, and would LeBron have hopped from team to team even after winning multiple rings with the Spurs?

    If whatever changes, can LeBron please not be as good as he’s been... *tear*
    Good lord, all I did was ask a question. And make a statement that the numbers bear out. Calm down.

  25. #50
    The Good Doctor Rummpd's Avatar
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    Meanwhile a couple of these greats went at it and of course no pass here

    https://www.yahoo.com/sports/nba-kob...143227091.html

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