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  1. #126
    Believe. Michael Jordan.'s Avatar
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  2. #127
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    yes they were frugle, but they were so well ran and coached they were able to be. they found two HOFs to support timmy at the end of the first and in the second rounds. pop did a wonderful job of finding hidden gems of role players for cheap, and maximizing their potential. they have without question been the most well ran organization in basketball (until the kawhi drama) for 20 years or so.

    one could counter your argument, that if you give timmy a disaster of an organization like cleveland, new york, or philly, he finishes with no rings, unless he leaves the team for something better. or that if lebron was given the GOAT coach and the most well ran franchise professional basketball has ever seen, he already has 6+ rings.
    No one said a thing about the "Spurs organization" until after his arrival and now suddently after the fact pople want to pretend he walked into what they became under him?

    He dispelled this notion before it even began by doing what he did from '97-'04 (early 00s in particular). He carried teams offensively ranging from aging to in transition, with zero reliable perimeter creation throughout and eventually no second superstar/star period, to 2 championships and perennial contender status.

    For some reason his prime is seemingly forgotten by non Spurs fans, who remember him as the old, one legged version from the "beautiful game" years and think the team always played that style.

  3. #128
    Because I choose to. Neo.'s Avatar
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    No one said a thing about the "Spurs organization" until after his arrival and now suddently after the fact pople want to pretend he walked into what they became under him?
    judging by the fact that they have 9 out of 53 sub .500 seasons in franchise history, obviously they have been extremely well run for a long time.

    additionally, for 5 of the 7 seasons before tim was drafted, they won over 55 games. yes, he absolutely walked into a great situation. its not discrediting him and what he did. but by no means did he enter anything remotely resembling the pathetic excuse of a franchise that cleveland was when lebron was drafted

    He dispelled this notion before it even began by doing what he did from '97-'04 (early 00s in particular). He carried teams offensively ranging from aging to in transition, with zero reliable perimeter creation throughout and eventually no second superstar/star period, to 2 championships and perennial contender status.
    yes and in terms of general level of talent and compe ion, those also happened to be some of the weakest years in the past 40 years. aside from the shaq/kobe lakers, most of the best teams in that timeframe would be middle tier teams at best over the past decade or in the 80s.

    he did a great job, but thats quite frankly a major reason why he was able to carry a team with less top tier talent than usual. can anyone honestly think that the 99 or 03 spurs would stand a chance against the big-4 spurs, brons heat/cavs/lakers, kd/russ thunder, or the splash bros warriors? aside from homer spurfans that is.

    For some reason his prime is seemingly forgotten by non Spurs fans, who remember him as the old, one legged version from the "beautiful game" years and think the team always played that style.
    yeah i agree people forget how great timmy truly was. IMO, hes a top 5 player ever. but he also had a very good situation around him that most players simply don't get.

  4. #129
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    judging by the fact that they have 9 out of 53 sub .500 seasons in franchise history, obviously they have been extremely well run for a long time.

    additionally, for 5 of the 7 seasons before tim was drafted, they won over 55 games. yes, he absolutely walked into a great situation. its not discrediting him and what he did. but by no means did he enter anything remotely resembling the pathetic excuse of a franchise that cleveland was when lebron was drafted



    yes and in terms of general level of talent and compe ion, those also happened to be some of the weakest years in the past 40 years. aside from the shaq/kobe lakers, most of the best teams in that timeframe would be middle tier teams at best over the past decade or in the 80s.

    he did a great job, but thats quite frankly a major reason why he was able to carry a team with less top tier talent than usual. can anyone honestly think that the 99 or 03 spurs would stand a chance against the big-4 spurs, brons heat/cavs/lakers, kd/russ thunder, or the splash bros warriors? aside from homer spurfans that is.



    yeah i agree people forget how great timmy truly was. IMO, hes a top 5 player ever. but he also had a very good situation around him that most players simply don't get.
    That's generally what happens when you luck into superstars.

    No, but the Spurs weren't the Spurs before Duncan and attempting to revise history to pretend they were is dinsingenous and discredits him.

    So aside from arguably the second greatest duo ever (who he went through twice and probably would have been thrice if not for the shady .4 decision), he supposedly faced weak compe ion, but James, who went the better part of a decade not having to deal with a legit contender in the East, didn't?

    Johnson, Bryant, S bag, etc. all walked into great situations and I never hear it thrown in their faces. O'Neal perennially played with an All-Star 1st team guard in his prime, somehow that never gets brought up either.

  5. #130
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    Has Jordan ever beaten a super team in the Finals? No
    Has Bron ever beaten a super team in the Finals? Yes


  6. #131
    EAT IT!!! Kawhitstorm's Avatar
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    Jordan couldn't do that because the CBA was different back, but if he could he would have
    He was constantly throwing the FO under the bus
    Kareem literally forced his way out of Milwaukee & Barkley followed suit so it had nothing to do with the CBA. He could have been a ring chaser like Clyde & asked to be traded had he been a chump.

    Jordan could have left town in ‘88 after his rookie contract ala Shaq & there was nothing preventing him from signing with the Knicks in ‘96 rather than carrying the corpse of Pippen. Meanwhile, LeBrat abandoned Wade the second he got a chance.

  7. #132
    Because I choose to. Neo.'s Avatar
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    That's generally what happens when you luck into superstars.

    No, but the Spurs weren't the Spurs before Duncan and attempting to revise history to pretend they were is dinsingenous and discredits him.
    calm down, no one said they were as good of a franchise before his arrival. im not discrediting him in any way, and never was. but they were a better run franchise than most, especially cleveland, which was the comparison to begin with. if you honestly think pre-timmy they were remotely as poorly ran as cleveland was when lebron arrived, then idk what to say to you, other than this conversation would be over

    So aside from arguably the second greatest duo ever (who he went through twice and probably would have been thrice if not for the shady .4 decision), he supposedly faced weak compe ion, but James, who went the better part of a decade not having to deal with a legit contender in the East, didn't?
    while some of the teams lebron faced in the east for a few of those years werent exactly great, they were better than some people give them credit for being, and have comparable talent levels to mid-upper tier teams from 98-03 (the Raptors and Pacers had very solid, balanced squads). and then we are forgetting he still had to face off against the top west team each year. again, big-4 spurs, big-3 thunder, warriors all were incomparably superior to any team during those years, except maybe shaq/kobe lakers, which if we really took a closer look at that team, i think people might rethink how good they actually were, or if they too were the product of weak compe ion... everyone talks about how lousy the supporting cast was for Bron/AD, but if you really compare the two, its arguable the shaq/kobe teams actually had a weaker supporting cast, and i think its reasonably questionable as to whether they would ring against the depth of modern teams, or the great 80s teams.

    Johnson, Bryant, S bag, etc. all walked into great situations and I never hear it thrown in their faces. O'Neal perennially played with an All-Star 1st team guard in his prime, somehow that never gets brought up either.
    are you kidding??? what rock do you live under? plenty of people bring up those facts. and who sits around throwing it in timmys face? i almost never hear that except for when people are trolling overly sensitive spurfans like you.

    regardless in the end, it really doesnt matter. the vast majority of all-time greats were drafted or signed into great situations. about the only one who didnt, was lebron. mikes didn't start well but got really good pretty quickly, krause catches a lot of flack for being weird, but he built a really well balanced team that fit perfectly around mike. he literally could not have had a team more perfectly built for him.

    however, i do wonder how differently things might have turned out if boozer didnt leave. i do think that messed things up quite a bit. he either could have been a nice supporting piece, or a good trade piece.

  8. #133
    Because I choose to. Neo.'s Avatar
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    Kareem literally forced his way out of Milwaukee & Barkley followed suit so it had nothing to do with the CBA. He could have been a ring chaser like Clyde & asked to be traded had he been a chump.

    Jordan could have left town in ‘88 after his rookie contract ala Shaq & there was nothing preventing him from signing with the Knicks in ‘96 rather than carrying the corpse of Pippen. Meanwhile, LeBrat abandoned Wade the second he got a chance.
    no he just threatened repeatedly to retire from basketball unless they got him more pieces

    and then he actually did retire and left his team hanging, realized they were fine without him and that kukoc and pippen were a pretty good duo, came back to try to prove something and then begged rodman to come help him beat shaq bc he knew he had no chance otherwise

    at least lebron played out all of his contracts to completion

  9. #134
    EAT IT!!! Kawhitstorm's Avatar
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    no he just threatened repeatedly to retire from basketball unless they got him more pieces

    and then he actually did retire and left his team hanging, realized they were fine without him and that kukoc and pippen were a pretty good duo, came back to try to prove something and then begged rodman to come help him beat shaq bc he knew he had no chance otherwise

    at least lebron played out all of his contracts to completion
    Yeah, LeBrat quit on the court multiple times & played out all his 1 year contracts while saddling the teams with ty contracts repped by his Ponzi scheme agency.

  10. #135
    coffee's for closers FrostKing's Avatar
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    Michael Jordan never kneeled

    /thread

  11. #136
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    Michael Jordan never kneeled

    /thread
    He kneeled in front of his masters Bird, Zeke, Sichting and big corporations

  12. #137
    Because I choose to. Neo.'s Avatar
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    Yeah, LeBrat quit on the court multiple times & played out all his 1 year contracts while saddling the teams with ty contracts repped by his Ponzi scheme agency.
    remember all those times Mike quit on his team by refusing the pass the ball to them? or when he quit on bill cartwright by telling teammates not to pass specifically to him? or refusing to play any defense at all so that he can rack up 63 points and look like a "god" but repeatedly leave his teammates hanging? @ thinking bron is selfish when Mike maybe quit on his team more than any player in history in order to do selfish things

    or how about when he had to have Phil ask him repeatedly"who's open Mike" so that he would stop quitting on his teammates and pass it to wide open shooters? was he too stupid to pass? or called out for quitting on teammates while trying to protect a 3-1 lead?

  13. #138
    Because I choose to. Neo.'s Avatar
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    Michael Jordan never kneeled

    /thread
    he kneeled to mcdonald's nike and sprite

  14. #139
    EAT IT!!! Kawhitstorm's Avatar
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    remember all those times Mike quit on his team by refusing the pass the ball to them? or when he quit on bill cartwright by telling teammates not to pass specifically to him? or refusing to play any defense at all so that he can rack up 63 points and look like a "god" but repeatedly leave his teammates hanging? @ thinking bron is selfish when Mike maybe quit on his team more than any player in history in order to do selfish things

    or how about when he had to have Phil ask him repeatedly"who's open Mike" so that he would stop quitting on his teammates and pass it to wide open shooters? was he too stupid to pass? or called out for quitting on teammates while trying to protect a 3-1 lead?
    “Jordan quit b/c he wouldn’t pass the ball to the great Cartwright”

    What’s next, Iverson quit on the Sixers by refusing to pass the ball to Dikembe

    12 points, 2-of-18 shooting, 9 rebounds, 9 assists, 10 turnovers, -0.7 game score

    "He quit," Gilbert said. "Not just in Game 5, but in Games 2, 4 and 6. Watch the tape. The Boston series was unlike anything in the history of sports for a superstar."

  15. #140
    Because I choose to. Neo.'s Avatar
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    “Jordan quit b/c he wouldn’t pass the ball to the great Cartwright”

    What’s next, Iverson quit on the Sixers by refusing to pass the ball to Dikembe

    12 points, 2-of-18 shooting, 9 rebounds, 9 assists, 10 turnovers, -0.7 game score
    "lebron quit because his team was a disaster due to the coach allowing an out-of-control environment to exist which prevented them from having any chance against the Celtics superteam regardless of lebron putting up 27/9/7 while mo williams, antawn jamison and delonte west somehow suddenly forgot how to play basketball"

    yawn

    and you're still deflecting from the true matter at hand.

    kashi is TRASH blowing a 3-1 lead needing to pose as a Mike fan in order to express your insecure feelings about lebron bc kawhi has NO argument whatsoever aside from piggybacking as a 4th option to a le

  16. #141
    EAT IT!!! Kawhitstorm's Avatar
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    "lebron quit because his team was a disaster due to the coach allowing an out-of-control environment to exist which prevented them from having any chance against the Celtics superteam regardless of lebron putting up 27/9/7 while mo williams, antawn jamison and delonte west somehow suddenly forgot how to play basketball"
    Is that why he shot 20/78 & commit 23 turnovers while Big Z/Wally were neutralizing KG/Ray?

    What was the “out-of-control” environment? Delonte barebacking LeBrat’s mom? #micro energy

    kashi is TRASH blowing a 3-1 lead needing to pose as a Mike fan in order to express your insecure feelings about lebron bc kawhi has NO argument whatsoever aside from piggybacking as a 4th option to a le


    He sure piggybacked LeBrat out of South Beach & then the Leastern Conference #100milesandstillrunning

    Needing to pose as a LeBrat sympathizer in order to express your insecure feelings about Kiwi bc Giannis has NO argument whatsoever aside from two embarrassing playoff exists

    Last edited by Kawhitstorm; 10-28-2020 at 01:55 PM.

  17. #142
    Because I choose to. Neo.'s Avatar
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    Is that why he shot 20/78 & commit 23 turnovers while Big Z/Wally were neutralizing KG/Ray?

    What was the “out-of-control” environment? Delonte barebacking LeBrat’s mom? #micro energy



    He sure piggybacked LeBrat out of South Beach & then the Leastern Conference #100milesandstillrunning

    Needing to pose as a LeBrat sympathizer in order to express your insecure feelings about Kiwi bc Giannis has NO argument whatsoever aside from two embarrassing playoff exists

    thinking I care one bit about giannis vs kawhi im not even a bucks fan

    thinking kawhi had anything at all to do with bron leaving miami or cleveland

    locked up by jerami grant

    anointed best most versatile defender ever couldn't remotely do anything with murray or jokic, while Bron easily bottled them up anytime he needed to as he cruised to an easy 5 game series win with an inferior supporting cast compared to kawhi

    everyone knows prime bron mike or kobe easily wins 70+ and sweeps their way to a ring with that team

  18. #143
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    calm down, no one said they were as good of a franchise before his arrival. im not discrediting him in any way, and never was. but they were a better run franchise than most, especially cleveland, which was the comparison to begin with. if you honestly think pre-timmy they were remotely as poorly ran as cleveland was when lebron arrived, then idk what to say to you, other than this conversation would be over



    while some of the teams lebron faced in the east for a few of those years werent exactly great, they were better than some people give them credit for being, and have comparable talent levels to mid-upper tier teams from 98-03 (the Raptors and Pacers had very solid, balanced squads). and then we are forgetting he still had to face off against the top west team each year. again, big-4 spurs, big-3 thunder, warriors all were incomparably superior to any team during those years, except maybe shaq/kobe lakers, which if we really took a closer look at that team, i think people might rethink how good they actually were, or if they too were the product of weak compe ion... everyone talks about how lousy the supporting cast was for Bron/AD, but if you really compare the two, its arguable the shaq/kobe teams actually had a weaker supporting cast, and i think its reasonably questionable as to whether they would ring against the depth of modern teams, or the great 80s teams.



    are you kidding??? what rock do you live under? plenty of people bring up those facts. and who sits around throwing it in timmys face? i almost never hear that except for when people are trolling overly sensitive spurfans like you.

    regardless in the end, it really doesnt matter. the vast majority of all-time greats were drafted or signed into great situations. about the only one who didnt, was lebron. mikes didn't start well but got really good pretty quickly, krause catches a lot of flack for being weird, but he built a really well balanced team that fit perfectly around mike. he literally could not have had a team more perfectly built for him.

    however, i do wonder how differently things might have turned out if boozer didnt leave. i do think that messed things up quite a bit. he either could have been a nice supporting piece, or a good trade piece.
    What about that comment gave you the impression that I was anything but calm? And why is you having a debate just that but me doing it means it's an argument?

    The Pacers and especially Raptors were the definition of paper tigers. The last true contender he faced in the East was probably the '10 Celtics. They were too old by '11 and '12 and the Bulls were merely a better version of the Pacers and Raptors.

    Relative to the era, the O'Neal-Bryant Lakers weren't lacking talent, but by today's standards, yeah. The early 00s Spurs had even less talent though, yet remained perennial contenders and took them down in '03.

    I only see that brought up by Spurs fans and I've seen countless non Spurs fans throw that in Duncan's face. These are the same idiots who think Garnett could have replaced him and they wouldn't have missed a beat.

    I'm not overly sensitive, I just call it like I see it. You don't see me pretending Duncan is in the Jordan vs James discussion, so stop regurgitating things you've seen people who have a problem with my style say about me when they're all out of material.

  19. #144
    EAT IT!!! Kawhitstorm's Avatar
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    thinking I care one bit about giannis vs kawhi im not even a bucks fan

    thinking kawhi had anything at all to do with bron leaving miami or cleveland

    locked up by jerami grant

    anointed best most versatile defender ever couldn't remotely do anything with murray or jokic, while Bron easily bottled them up anytime he needed to as he cruised to an easy 5 game series win with an inferior supporting cast compared to kawhi

    everyone knows prime bron mike or kobe easily wins 70+ and sweeps their way to a ring with that team
    -28% when not guarded by anyone not named Lou Williams/Marcus Morris

    -Bubble championship

    -LakerRefs

    -Fair-weather Bucks fan

    -Kirby got barebacked by Tayshaun Prince while he had peak Shaq on his squad rather than Playoff P

    -LeBrat couldn’t even play wingman to PEAK Wade against Barea

    -Jorn couldn’t do it against the Magic in another asterisk season

  20. #145
    Believe. Michael Jordan.'s Avatar
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    Damn. LeBron’s first time to the playoffs he got Carried by Larry Hughes

  21. #146
    Because I choose to. Neo.'s Avatar
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    -Bubble championship

    -LakerRefs
    resorting to this crybaby crap = your white flag









































    actually whining about the bubble and "laker refs"

  22. #147
    Believe. Michael Jordan.'s Avatar
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    Missing the playoffs three years in a row in the ing East

  23. #148
    Because I choose to. Neo.'s Avatar
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    Missing the playoffs three years in a row in the ing East
    two years you illiterate moron

    making the playoffs with 38 and 30 win seasons, apparently the league was even weaker in mikes day

  24. #149
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    two years you illiterate moron

    making the playoffs with 38 and 30 win seasons, apparently the league was even weaker in mikes day
    True true

  25. #150
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    Off topic but here is a pic of Bird swinging at Kobe's dad


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