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  1. #1
    4-25-20 Will Hunting's Avatar
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    the re s who think it was Belichick who made Brady and not the other way around.

  2. #2
    Damns (Given): 0 Blake's Avatar
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    Especially since Hoodie is a defensive Coach

  3. #3
    Damns (Given): 0 Blake's Avatar
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    Oh you mean with the SB appearances tho I guess

  4. #4
    4-25-20 Will Hunting's Avatar
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    Especially since Hoodie is a defensive Coach
    Well yeah the argument that Belichick’s defensive prowess inflated Brady’s ability as a quarterback has never been coherent or logical, but this season should end the stupidity for good unless something drastic changes.

  5. #5
    Enemy of the System Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    Well yeah the argument that Belichick’s defensive prowess inflated Brady’s ability as a quarterback has never been coherent or logical, but this season should end the stupidity for good unless something drastic changes.
    Tampa's defense under Arians is awesome, tbh. And most of their defensive core has been on the team for awhile, like Lavonte David, JPP, Barrett, etc... it's almost as if Brady some how makes the defense better as well. Unless Nick Foles is on the other side, I guess.

    If I were you I'd seriously consider changing my skin to Tampa until Brady retires, because the Patriots aren't going anywhere with Newton; it's looking more and more like a 6-10 type of season for the Patriots and at some point, maybe next year, they'll actually have to rebuild, which means letting go of the McCourtys and Hightower's of the world.

  6. #6
    4-25-20 Will Hunting's Avatar
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    Tampa's defense under Arians is awesome, tbh. And most of their defensive core has been on the team for awhile, like Lavonte David, JPP, Barrett, etc... it's almost as if Brady some how makes the defense better as well. Unless Nick Foles is on the other side, I guess.

    If I were you I'd seriously consider changing my skin to Tampa until Brady retires, because the Patriots aren't going anywhere with Newton; it's looking more and more like a 6-10 type of season for the Patriots and at some point, maybe next year, they'll actually have to rebuild, which means letting go of the McCourtys and Hightower's of the world.
    “seriously consider changing my skin” I guess I don’t take the profile skin I have on a sports message board as seriously as you do

    giving credit to Tampa’s defense. Brady has 18 touchdowns and 4 interceptions so far this year. He’s been successful without Belichick while Belichick has tripped over his down without Brady. That’s it and that’s allPERIOD.

  7. #7
    I think the Cam fumble sets the 6-10 season on course.

    Wonder if Bellicheat can't stand s play or is like, oh well it was a good run.

  8. #8
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    This is a very disingenuous thread, tbh.

    1st) the Patriots aren't just lacking Brady from last season. They are missing almost an entire lineup of players.

    2nd) nobody said Belichick could keep winning at the same pace with any QB. He's got to settle with a guy that was thought to never set foot on an NFL field again, yet alone be a starter, tbh.

    Belichick already did good with a below average QB when Brady wasn't around, when the Pats went 11-5 under Matt Cassell. It is just common logic to suppose he will get back to his winning ways with a starting caliber QB and a full roster, tbh.

  9. #9
    4-25-20 Will Hunting's Avatar
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    This is a very disingenuous thread, tbh.

    1st) the Patriots aren't just lacking Brady from last season. They are missing almost an entire lineup of players.

    2nd) nobody said Belichick could keep winning at the same pace with any QB. He's got to settle with a guy that was thought to never set foot on an NFL field again, yet alone be a starter, tbh.

    Belichick already did good with a below average QB when Brady wasn't around, when the Pats went 11-5 under Matt Cassell. It is just common logic to suppose he will get back to his winning ways with a starting caliber QB and a full roster, tbh.
    Belichick’s career record as a coach without Brady is below .500, you’re cherry picking the one decent season he had without Brady (which was largely due to a laughably easy schedule).

    “his winning ways” of being below .500 without the GOAT.

  10. #10
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    Belichick’s career record as a coach without Brady is below .500, you’re cherry picking the one decent season he had without Brady (which was largely due to a laughably easy schedule).

    “his winning ways” of being below .500 without the GOAT.
    That sub .500 record was created before Belichick was Belichick, tbh.

  11. #11
    4-25-20 Will Hunting's Avatar
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    That sub .500 record was created before Belichick was Belichick, tbh.
    I think you mean to say it was created before he had Tom Brady.

  12. #12
    Because I choose to. Neo.'s Avatar
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    Belichick’s career record as a coach without Brady is below .500, you’re cherry picking the one decent season he had without Brady (which was largely due to a laughably easy schedule).
    exactly. a noticeably easier schedule than the season before, and it was still a 5 game dropoff while retaining pretty much all the key players from the previous season

    for comparison, a 12-4 team that has a 5 game dropoff, would be 7-9. its so stupid when people try to use that example as a way to discredit brady

    "oh look, a QB with the same team won 5 less games than brady, which means hes almost as good as him, its all about the system!!!!!"

    completely re ed

  13. #13
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    exactly. a noticeably easier schedule than the season before, and it was still a 5 game dropoff while retaining pretty much all the key players from the previous season

    for comparison, a 12-4 team that has a 5 game dropoff, would be 7-9. its so stupid when people try to use that example as a way to discredit brady
    Well, of course, did you expect Matt ing Cassell to win at the same rate than a HoF QB?

  14. #14
    Because I choose to. Neo.'s Avatar
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    Well, of course, did you expect Matt ing Cassell to win at the same rate than a HoF QB?
    no, i didnt. who would? but thats the point. if he did end up doing a comparable job, then there would be a legit argument that brady was largely a product of bills system. but it wasnt comparable at all, both in terms of stats and team success. thus proving my point, that its a stupid example that people use to try to discredit brady.

  15. #15
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    no, i didnt. who would? but thats the point. if he did end up doing a comparable job, then there would be a legit argument that brady was largely a product of bills system. but it wasnt comparable at all, both in terms of stats and team success. thus proving my point, that its a stupid example that people use to try to discredit brady.
    I don't think even the biggest of Brady's haters would say that he is a Matt Cassell level QB without Belichick, tbh.

    What many people say, to which I'm part of, is that Brady owns his GOAT status to the cir stances he was put in. Place any other HoF level QB on the 2000 Pats and they would be the majority GOAT right now.

  16. #16
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    I don't think even the biggest of Brady's haters would say that he is a Matt Cassell level QB without Belichick, tbh.
    didnt claim that at all. just that people used that example to dismiss him. but cassell was so incredibly inferior, its a terrible argument to make.

    What many people say, to which I'm part of, is that Brady owns his GOAT status to the cir stances he was put in. Place any other HoF level QB on the 2000 Pats and they would be the majority GOAT right now.
    tbh you could find ways to say that about any "GOAT"

    would jerry rice have been the goat WR if he hadnt been in a transcendent passing offense system with one of the greatest QBs ever? perhaps if irvin, OBJ, moss, TO, fitz, or a number of other players were in the same situation, they would be considered the GOAT WR

    would mike have been the goat if he didn't have a great team built around him and got to enjoy playing his prime years during a weaker era compe ion-wise of the NBA? perhaps if lebron, kobe, bird, magic or others got to have the same situation, they might have had the same success and be considered the GOAT of basketball

    coulda woulda shoulda

    tom had a good situation no question, and he made the best of it and deserves credit for it, as opposed to saying he owes it all to the cir stances. thats just ridiculous.

  17. #17
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    didnt claim that at all. just that people used that example to dismiss him. but cassell was so incredibly inferior, its a terrible argument to make.



    tbh you could find ways to say that about any "GOAT"

    would jerry rice have been the goat WR if he hadnt been in a transcendent passing offense system with one of the greatest QBs ever? perhaps if irvin, OBJ, moss, TO, fitz, or a number of other players were in the same situation, they would be considered the GOAT WR

    would mike have been the goat if he didn't have a great team built around him and got to enjoy playing his prime years during a weaker era compe ion-wise of the NBA? perhaps if lebron, kobe, bird, magic or others got to have the same situation, they might have had the same success and be considered the GOAT of basketball

    coulda woulda shoulda

    tom had a good situation no question, and he made the best of it and deserves credit for it, as opposed to saying he owes it all to the cir stances. thats just ridiculous.
    I agree to a certain point, but it isn't exactly the same. MJ, even as a young buck that failed to win a playoffs round, was still seen as the best player in the World. Everybody knew it was a matter of time untill he got a team around him to start winning. Brady was a 200 overall pick. Put Brady on any other team and it is not a forgone conclusion that he goes on to become a HoF QB. Let's say the Colts drafted Brady, he would have been a backup to Manning for at least 4/5 years. Jordan was going to succeed anywhere. Brady? There are many scenarios where he doesn't get to become even close to the accomplished player he ended up being.
    Last edited by DAF86; 11-02-2020 at 10:57 PM.

  18. #18
    Enemy of the System Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    “seriously consider changing my skin” I guess I don’t take the profile skin I have on a sports message board as seriously as you do

    giving credit to Tampa’s defense. Brady has 18 touchdowns and 4 interceptions so far this year. He’s been successful without Belichick while Belichick has tripped over his down without Brady. That’s it and that’s allPERIOD.
    well it appears we're in agreement on the bottom line. Belicheat got lucky to have Brady and never really appreciated it. Now he's stuck with Scam who fumble gotted a winnable game away vs Belicheat's stepson team

  19. #19
    4-25-20 Will Hunting's Avatar
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    well it appears we're in agreement on the bottom line. Belicheat got lucky to have Brady and never really appreciated it. Now he's stuck with Scam who fumble gotted a winnable game away vs Belicheat's stepson team
    Were in agreement there, the Newton experiment isnt going well, granted I’m not sure why Belichick thought having dog receiving options was going to work with Newton when it didn’t work with Brady last year. That part isn’t ’s fault.

    Its also time to put Edelman out of his misery and trade him to Tampa.

  20. #20
    4-25-20 Will Hunting's Avatar
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    Actually I’m not even sure Tampa would want Edelman now. Poor guy

  21. #21
    Because I choose to. Neo.'s Avatar
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    I agree to a certain point, but it isn't exactly the same. MJ, even as a young buck that failed to win a playoffs round, was still seen as the best player in the World. Everybody knew it was a matter of time untill he got a team around him to start winning. Brady was a 200 overall pick. Put Brady on any other team and it is not a forgone conclusion that he goes on to become a HoF QB. Let's say the Colts drafted Brady, he would have been a backup to Manning for at least 4/5 years. Jordan was going to succeed anywhere. Brady? There are many scenarios where he doesn't get to become not even close to the accomplished player he ended up being.
    so if a guy like peyton, aikman or marino was put on the expansion texans with absolutely no offensive line like david carr was, would it have been a guarantee that any of them ends up being a HoF QB?

    tbh football probably invites more "what-if" scenarios than any other sport because of how big teams are and that no one plays two ways.

    i won't argue that some players had more natural talents and have an argument that they might have done better than tom did in the same situation, but in the end it doesnt matter bc this is simply the way things went, and he made the best of his situation. again, to say he owes it all to the situation is just ridiculous and insulting to him. does he owe some credit to it? absolutely, all great players owe some credit to their situations. but he deserves credit as well.

  22. #22
    Enemy of the System Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    Were in agreement there, the Newton experiment isnt going well, granted I’m not sure why Belichick thought having dog receiving options was going to work with Newton when it didn’t work with Brady last year. That part isn’t ’s fault.

    Its also time to put Edelman out of his misery and trade him to Tampa.
    Actually I’m not even sure Tampa would want Edelman now. Poor guy
    They have Scotty Miller now, who is Edelman Jr. but I don't think Arians uses him right. He needs to be a slot guy not an outside deep receiver.

  23. #23
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    so if a guy like peyton, aikman or marino was put on the expansion texans with absolutely no offensive line like david carr was, would it have been a guarantee that any of them ends up being a HoF QB?

    tbh football probably invites more "what-if" scenarios than any other sport because of how big teams are and that no one plays two ways.

    i won't argue that some players had more natural talents and have an argument that they might have done better than tom did in the same situation, but in the end it doesnt matter bc this is simply the way things went, and he made the best of his situation. again, to say he owes it all to the situation is just ridiculous and insulting to him. does he owe some credit to it? absolutely, all great players owe some credit to their situations. but he deserves credit as well.
    That I can agree with. He made the most of his opportunity, that's for sure.

  24. #24
    4-25-20 Will Hunting's Avatar
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    What I do know is that a Peyton-Belichick marriage would have lasted 5 years tops. Peyton would have eventually start pouting about not being able to call his own plays. Same thing with a Rodgers-Belichick team. Mike McCarthy was a horrible coach but Rodgers undercut him left and right.

  25. #25
    Damns (Given): 0 Blake's Avatar
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    That sub .500 record was created before Belichick was Belichick, tbh.
    Who was Belichick before he was Belichick?

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