Jakob Poeltl is finalizing a three-year, near $27M deal to return to San Antonio

[spurraider21]

Jakob “actually better than Andre Drummond” Poeltl

[Sugus]

what would poodles FG% be if he wasn’t just finishing possessions where he is spoonfed in the restricted area but asked to generate looks like Drummond? I mean, poodles FG% is better than Duncan’s too

I don't know what it could be - I know what it is, tbh. Maybe Drummond's percentages (and it's not about percentages at all, but rather the way he plays, which doesn't correlate with his talent level, the amount he's paid nor his role on the teams he's been in). Could Drummond be a better Poeltl if he were in a Poeltl role? Pretty certainly. But he's not, because he himself insists on not playing that way, which you weirdly and consistently ignore. Again, he brings some value in a vacuum - I'm saying he's not worth either the money, the opportunity cost, nor the skillset for this Spurs team. Give me a shooting 5, a playmaking 5, a defensive-minded 5, or even a rebounding 5 that's not as much of a defensive woe nor offensive blackhole as Drummond is, any day of the week, instead of Drummond himself.

Comparing Poeltl's FG% to Duncan's is hilariously stupid, ignores all context, and undermines your point.

Jakob “actually better than Andre Drummond” Poeltl

...And now you've lost all nuance. Quote me where I said that, or GTFO. Can posters in this board only think in absolutes? My ing god...

[spurraider21]

I don't know what it could be - I know what it is, tbh. Maybe Drummond's percentages (and it's not about percentages at all, but rather the way he plays, which doesn't correlate with his talent level, the amount he's paid nor his role on the teams he's been in). Could Drummond be a better Poeltl if he were in a Poeltl role? Pretty certainly. But he's not, because he himself insists on not playing that way, which you weirdly and consistently ignore. Again, he brings some value in a vacuum - I'm saying he's not worth either the money, the opportunity cost, nor the skillset for this Spurs team. Give me a shooting 5, a playmaking 5, a defensive-minded 5, or even a rebounding 5 that's not as much of a defensive woe nor offensive blackhole as Drummond is, any day of the week, instead of Drummond himself.

Comparing Poeltl's FG% to Duncan's is hilariously stupid, ignores all context, and undermines your point.



...And now you've lost all nuance. Quote me where I said that, or GTFO. Can posters in this board only think in absolutes? My ing god...

its exactly what you've done by comparing poodle's FG% to Drummond's though... in an effort to prove up Poeltl being a more effective finisher

[Sugus]

Wednesday night we play Wiseman. This thread will be back towards the top of the message board no matter what happens.

I can't wait for people to completely dismiss the fact that we're paying LMA like, $20M this season, to directly matchup against starting bigs like Wiseman, and jump to complaining that our backup big isn't up to par, tbh. Will keep me up all night, every night, until the game.

[spurraider21]

...And now you've lost all nuance. Quote me where I said that, or GTFO. Can posters in this board only think in absolutes? My ing god...

in one post you said Poeltl is a much better defender, and in another post you've said he's a more effective finisher on offense.

apparently he's the better player on both ends of the court, but i'm missing "nuance" by saying your take is that poeltl is a better player than drummond

[Collins21]

in one post you said Poeltl is a much better defender, and in another post you've said he's a more effective finisher on offense.

apparently he's the better player on both ends of the court, but i'm missing "nuance" by saying your take is that poeltl is a better player than drummond

Poetl sucks period!!! These people will use nuance and logic to explain why he sucks while ignoring context for other players.

[Sugus]

its exactly what you've done by comparing poodle's FG% to Drummond's though... in an effort to prove up Poeltl being a more effective finisher

Hooo boy, let's try this one more time, 'kay? I compared Poeltl's and Drummond's stats (many stats, not only FG%, thanks for ignoring the context on the rest of my post), to show both that Drummond is an extremely inefficient scorer (which is DIRECTLY RELATED to his inflated, empty stats, rebounding - can you understand that he misses so many shots at the rim, that he ends up with many more rebounds than other centers would have gotten given the same plays, because he's having to tip in or re-finish most of his plays? Is this too hard an analysis for you?), and that Poeltl isn't the "piece of " scorer that posters here would make it seem. As I said, and repeat, Poeltl's and Drummond's offensive games are not so far apart as to warrant the much higher pay and possession usage that Drummond comes along with. And once again: Drummond doesn't shoot, doesn't space the floor, doesn't playmake, can't dribble or penetrate, can't defend.

So in that context, yes, it's useful to compare Jak's and Drum's stats, since it helps to explain the rest of his game (and my distaste for it). Timmy, OTOH, was both a much more prolific scorer, an offensive (and defensive) powerhouse, a focal point of offense that could win you playoff series by himself by hard carrying. I couldn't give less of a what his percentages are, because his value to the team is evident enough just by watching him, and also because you can suffer through not-so-efficient play when the results are there to show for it. Which again, they aren't for Drummond, as he doesn't impact winning like his inflated stats would suggest.

Anything else I have to explain to you like a five-year-old, so you understand where I'm getting at? You seem awfully fixated in ignoring every sensible part of my posts, and twisting whatever you can into your own narrative just to laugh it off, tbh. Hardly as good of a look as you think it is, I promise you.

[Sugus]

in one post you said Poeltl is a much better defender, and in another post you've said he's a more effective finisher on offense.

apparently he's the better player on both ends of the court, but i'm missing "nuance" by saying your take is that poeltl is a better player than drummond

How is being a more effective finisher -> a better player? Are you stupid? Let's take it the other way around, then: Poeltl is the much, much worse rebounder, the worse dribbler (hardly a high bar, but it's there), the worse playmaker (another low bar). Offense is so much more than what you're trying to reduct it to just to get your point across.

But the counterpoint to this, is that Jakob is a very effective defensive presence, playing in the most important and impactful position in basketball for there to be a defensive-minded player. It's much harder for a bad defending C to "make it up" on offense and be a net-positive player, than it is for a bad defensive guard to do the same thing, because you suddenly can't anchor your team's defense on your big man, whereas no defenses are anchored on guards or have them play foundational roles on them. Seriously, dude, it's like you throw at the wall just to "prove me wrong" by jumping to conclusions based on what I (didn't) said.

[spurraider21]

Hooo boy, let's try this one more time, 'kay? I compared Poeltl's and Drummond's stats (many stats, not only FG%, thanks for ignoring the context on the rest of my post), to show both that Drummond is an extremely inefficient scorer (which is DIRECTLY RELATED to his inflated, empty stats, rebounding - can you understand that he misses so many shots at the rim, that he ends up with many more rebounds than other centers would have gotten given the same plays, because he's having to tip in or re-finish most of his plays?

is there any data behind this meme? isn't he also the best defensive rebounder in the league, which cuts against the argument that his rebounding numbers are just inflated/manufactured?

Is this too hard an analysis for you?), and that Poeltl isn't the "piece of " scorer that posters here would make it seem. As I said, and repeat, Poeltl's and Drummond's offensive games are not so far apart as to warrant the much higher pay and possession usage that Drummond comes along with. And once again: Drummond doesn't shoot, doesn't space the floor, doesn't playmake, can't dribble or penetrate, can't defend.

this just tells me you dont really know how drummond plays. a ton of his points come from putting the ball on the floor and taking his defender off the dribble

the rest of your post goes off this faulty assumption that drummond and poeltl's offensive game are so similar that its fair to compare their raw FG% (and derivate stats of that such as eFG and 2PT%)

[spurraider21]

How is being a more effective finisher -> a better player? Are you stupid? Let's take it the other way around, then: Poeltl is the much, much worse rebounder, the worse dribbler (hardly a high bar, but it's there), the worse playmaker (another low bar). Offense is so much more than what you're trying to reduct it to just to get your point across.

but you've also implied that Drummond and Poeltl's offensive game is so similar and that drummond's raw numbers are only better because of volume... so even if offense is more than just finishing, you've already said they're functionally the same and poeltl is just better

look, just in case this was all a misunderstanding, let me get some clarity.

would you rather have Poeltl on his current contract, or would you rather have Drummond at that same contract?

[Sugus]

How can anyone this "eyeball test" bad as JP deserve 9 million a year? Regardless of any advanced stats guy is a stiff.

Yeah, he's so stiff and bad that he had not only one, but multiple teams offering him bigger offer sheets than the Spurs could match by the deadline . Will you also acknowledge you'd be the first to clown the FO for not matching him and letting him walk, had he signed those sheets? Something about this incompetent FO that can't retain any good players, Kawhi trade looking worse and worse by the day, etc?

Poetl sucks period!!! These people will use nuance and logic to explain why he sucks while ignoring context for other players.

Do tell me what other players' context I'm ignoring, please. I try to be very nuanced in my evaluations, often leading to very long posts that I'm sure posters like you don't even bother reading but I hardly make quick, shallow judgements like that. By the by, Poeltl doesn't really suck, he just doesn't have starting player-caliber offense to his game. You want to see players who actually suck? Try turning on some Kings games... Then go and look at how much the Kangz are paying some of those players. Then, come back and tell me Poeltl is hugely overpaid.

Go on, I'll wait.

[Collins21]

Yeah, he's so stiff and bad that he had not only one, but multiple teams offering him bigger offer sheets than the Spurs could match by the deadline . Will you also acknowledge you'd be the first to clown the FO for not matching him and letting him walk, had he signed those sheets? Something about this incompetent FO that can't retain any good players, Kawhi trade looking worse and worse by the day, etc?

Do tell me what other players' context I'm ignoring, please. I try to be very nuanced in my evaluations, often leading to very long posts that I'm sure posters like you don't even bother reading but I hardly make quick, shallow judgements like that. By the by, Poeltl doesn't really suck, he just doesn't have starting player-caliber offense to his game. You want to see players who actually suck? Try turning on some Kings games... Then go and look at how much the Kangz are paying some of those players. Then, come back and tell me Poeltl is hugely overpaid.

Go on, I'll wait.

Every big on the kings outside of Metu is better than Poetl. You Put Holmes or Bagley on this team and the team celing is higher than it is with Poetl. Dude makes 9 million a year and he's made TWO free throws all year. He's a stiff. People think LMA is bad on the perimeter but Jakob got blown by repeatedly by PJ tucker. That good defense goes out the window when he plays against a good offensive big. It was disgusting watching him try to guard Towns, Wood or Davis. There was no diffeence in the job he did on them and the job LMA did on them and that;s a problem since Poetl is supposed to be an "elite defender"

[KingKev]

Every big on the kings outside of Metu is better than Poetl. You Put Holmes or Bagley on this team and the team celing is higher than it is with Poetl. Dude makes 9 million a year and he's made TWO free throws all year. He's a stiff. People think LMA is bad on the perimeter but Jakob got blown by repeatedly by PJ tucker. That good defense goes out the window when he plays against a good offensive big. It was disgusting watching him try to guard Towns, Wood or Davis. There was no diffeence in the job he did on them and the job LMA did on them and that;s a problem since Poetl is supposed to be an "elite defender"

he was an RFA, if he was offered bigger offer sheets we would had to match or am I missing something?

sorry i quoted the wrong post - was for Sugus claiming Poetl had multiple larger offers

[SpursDynasty85]

Signing Poetl is smart especially if LMA is traded or if he leaves next offseason.

[John B]

finally a block by Aldridge

[spurraider21]

naturally poeltl playing his best ball today

[cd021]

Jakob dominated on the offensive glass today played well tbh.

[Sugus]

is there any data behind this meme? isn't he also the best defensive rebounder in the league, which cuts against the argument that his rebounding numbers are just inflated/manufactured?

Lmao, why do you call it a "meme"? It's factual. Would you call Westbrook's inflated rebounding numbers a "meme" as well? Nah. Are you beginning to understand why I posted his FG% earlier? Someone with his rebounding ability and (supposedly by you) good/great finishing ability in the rim should never have such awful percentages - how else can you explain it? Tbh, now that I think about it, how about you try and explain it to me? Because it sure doesn't make any sense, unless I'm right that A. his rebounding numbers do not translate to the offensive opportunities that other similar bigs generate, or B. he's not a good finisher and has inflated stats due to regularly catching his own misses. I've spent way too much time on this discussion explaining things to you, a change of pace would be nice.

this just tells me you dont really know how drummond plays. a ton of his points come from putting the ball on the floor and taking his defender off the dribble

the rest of your post goes off this faulty assumption that drummond and poeltl's offensive game are so similar that its fair to compare their raw FG% (and derivate stats of that such as eFG and 2PT%)

You're telling me you don't understand how his rebounds are inflated, yet I'm the one who doesn't know how he plays? Ok

I said - and I say once again - that Drummond's offensive value to a team is not worth the amount that he is paid, wants to be paid, and probably will be paid. However you want to spin it, whatever tangent we can go on, it remains a fundamental point for me. I would rather have Jakob at his price, than Drummond at his, invariably. Especially considering Drummond's many limitations, which you've consistently failed to address in your glorification of him and trashing of Poeltl.

[Mugen]

Jakob might be the worst player ever when starting a season. 3 years in a row where it's taken him about a month to thaw tbh.

[Sugus]

but you've also implied that Drummond and Poeltl's offensive game is so similar and that drummond's raw numbers are only better because of volume... so even if offense is more than just finishing, you've already said they're functionally the same and poeltl is just better

look, just in case this was all a misunderstanding, let me get some clarity.

would you rather have Poeltl on his current contract, or would you rather have Drummond at that same contract?

No, I didn't...... My ing god. Literally quote me saying "they're functionally the same". I'm absolutely certain I've never strung those words together in this thread. What a stupid ass, you can't even quote me right. s sake. I gotta argue not only against your points, but the fake points you make up for me? that.

I'll get you clarity: it makes literally no sense to say whether you'd have player A at his salary, or player B at player A's salary. Reality doesn't work like that. Would you rather have LeBron at Poeltl's salary, or....? That's how dumb you sound. Here's the fact: Drummond will NEVER be paid Poeltl salary, because he's an inflated stats player, and like such, he'll demand a paygrade above his production level. Yes, in a vacuum, I'd like to have Drummond on bench big money (and bench big role, tbh, behind a shooting 5), but what the is the point of that discussion if it literally doesn't have a chance to materialize? To be more pragmatic, and say it again: I would rather have Jakob at Jakob's salary, than Drummond at Drummond's salary. Because I can find better uses to that difference in pay, than the on-court impact that both players have (which IS NOT THE SAME!!!! as saying they're "functionally the same", you numbnut).

Can I be any more clear on this? Jakob heard you talking , btw...

[Sugus]

he was an RFA, if he was offered bigger offer sheets we would had to match or am I missing something?

sorry i quoted the wrong post - was for Sugus claiming Poetl had multiple larger offers

Yes, he was an RFA - but the Spurs were really close to the Lux Tax line before re-signing Poeltl, and any of the other teams' offers that he could sign (and the Spurs could match) would've put the team over the luxury line, making them lose not only the revenue money from the other lux-tax-paying teams, but also having to pay a (small) amount of money for being over the line themselves.

So both parties reached a compromise: Poeltl agreed to stay with us, and didn't even sign the other sheets (which, BTW, would've forced the Spurs into paying him even more, maybe as much as $10-15M depending on the offer), and the Spurs paid him almost every penny they had left before reaching the tax line. A compromise that every party, except for the never satisfied hordes of ST trolls, is happy with.

[Sugus]

Every big on the kings outside of Metu is better than Poetl. You Put Holmes or Bagley on this team and the team celing is higher than it is with Poetl. Dude makes 9 million a year and he's made TWO free throws all year. He's a stiff. People think LMA is bad on the perimeter but Jakob got blown by repeatedly by PJ tucker. That good defense goes out the window when he plays against a good offensive big. It was disgusting watching him try to guard Towns, Wood or Davis. There was no diffeence in the job he did on them and the job LMA did on them and that;s a problem since Poetl is supposed to be an "elite defender"

You're all over the place on this, failing to address my original point (why do you jump into a discussion to argue things that weren't previously being argued? I'll respond anyways, but keep it in mind).

You're not all wrong here. I really like Holmes, he's a great big and on a GREAT deal in terms of pay/production (he's being paid something ridiculous like $5M a year, if I'm not mistaken). But what does it have to do with the Spurs? You want me to just start naming the random bigs that are better on other teams, and circlejerk-salivate over them, tbh? Like Bagley... Bagley was a #2 pick. Yes, he's better than Poeltl and has a higher ceiling - what the does it matter in relation to my point? I guess you're saying this because of where I said "You want to see players who actually suck? Try turning on some Kings games..."? In which case, I meant the team as a whole, not a specific player, and they do suck. I've been watching them since I like Haliburton and Fox (we could talk about Fox being better than, idk, Patty? If it ruffles your feathers ).

Anyways, Poeltl is a solid bench big. I stand by my comment - he does not suck. He proved it today, again (not like there wasn't entire seasons of data to conclude that he does not, in fact, suck). Is he a bit too stiff for my liking? Yes. Could he rebound more? Yes. Will he have trouble guarding the elite bigs of the league? Probably, yes. That has nothing to do with the fact that I'm glad he's still on the team, that he brings a lot of value to the Spurs, that every Spurs player likes playing with him, and that he's got a lot more good qualities than bad ones. But sure, let's all compare him to other teams' lottery pick (and lottery-paid) bigs and bring him down, why not? I'm free 'till 7, tbh

[Sugus]

Jakob might be the worst player ever when starting a season. 3 years in a row where it's taken him about a month to thaw tbh.

Bold of you to assume he's out of his slump after only one good game, tbh. I'm already prepared for a letdown next game and this thread lighting up again

[spurraider21]

No, I didn't...... My ing god. Literally quote me saying "they're functionally the same". I'm absolutely certain I've never strung those words together in this thread. What a stupid ass, you can't even quote me right. s sake. I gotta argue not only against your points, but the fake points you make up for me? that.

I'll get you clarity: it makes literally no sense to say whether you'd have player A at his salary, or player B at player A's salary. Reality doesn't work like that. Would you rather have LeBron at Poeltl's salary, or....? That's how dumb you sound. Here's the fact: Drummond will NEVER be paid Poeltl salary, because he's an inflated stats player, and like such, he'll demand a paygrade above his production level. Yes, in a vacuum, I'd like to have Drummond on bench big money (and bench big role, tbh, behind a shooting 5), but what the is the point of that discussion if it literally doesn't have a chance to materialize? To be more pragmatic, and say it again: I would rather have Jakob at Jakob's salary, than Drummond at Drummond's salary. Because I can find better uses to that difference in pay, than the on-court impact that both players have (which IS NOT THE SAME!!!! as saying they're "functionally the same", you numbnut).

Can I be any more clear on this? Jakob heard you talking , btw...

ok, so you'd rather have drummond than poeltl if the money were equal. thanks for conforming that he's a better player than poeltl.

now i wonder, why do you value drummond more than poeltl if jakob is better on defense and drummond is a terrible finisher on offense?

as an aside, while drummond is grossly overpaid, i'd prefer drummond on a big expiring deal to Poeltl on a 3/27 deal

[Mugen]

Bold of you to assume he's out of his slump after only one good game, tbh. I'm already prepared for a letdown next game and this thread lighting up again

10 blocks over the last 4 games, I think it's safe to say he's thawing tbh.