Jakob Poeltl is finalizing a three-year, near $27M deal to return to San Antonio

[spurraider21]

You're wrong.



This was my original comment, to which you started extrapolating "how could you rather have Poeltl when Drummond is so much better?!". You then went on a lot of tangents such as "but would you rather have Poeltl at his contract, or Drummond at Poeltl's???" which aren't related to my point at all. But as I imagined, Poeltl scored (almost) 0 points last game, and still had a much better impact on the game than Drummond could've had - I would've much rather have him out there with this Spurs team than Drummond taking up shots all game long, stunting teammates and throwing games away.

Anyways. Here's to hoping Jakob keeps hitting clutch FT's.

[Sugus]

He's improving on pick-n-rolls because D. White is back and has a knack for finding the roll or pop man. The only other player on the Spurs (that get significant playing time) that can somewhat set Poeltl up for an easy bucket rolling t the basket is Patty, and not to his own fault, he is to short too always complete the play.

b-but there's no way Poeltl would improve his game by having one of the best PnR ballhandlers in the league, who he has great chemistry with, back from injury!!!

[TD 21]

NBA.com/Stats | Players Defensive Impact

[DAF86]

14, 11 and I didn't check but probably a +/- of around +50 like every game. The AusTrain

[cjw]

A lot of people eating crow. I had my doubts but he looks worth this contract and it’ll be a bargain if he can shoot even 50% from the line.

[rankingtear]

Third spur featured on Lowe's 10 things this year. Not good but percentages are trending up during LA absence.

8. It's time to talk about Jakob Poeltl's free throw shooting

Poeltl has intuitive feel on both ends. He's a willing screener, and smart passer. The San Antonio Spurs have been massively better with Poeltl in place of LaMarcus Aldridge, though it's unclear how much of that would hold up if they swapped roles full-time.
San Antonio's defense -- quietly up to ninth in points allowed per possession -- would improve. Aldridge has lost mobility and most of whatever bounce he had left. Meanwhile, opponents are shooting 41% at the rim with Poeltl nearby -- lowest among all rotation players challenging at least two such shots per game, according to NBA.com.
But, umm, Poeltl is 10-of-35 (28.6%) on free throws. Seems like a problem. He hit 46.5% last season, and has been trending down since draining 59% in 2017-18.
Related: Poeltl averages 2.4 free throw attempts per 36 minutes -- very low for a big who lives near the basket and ranks among the league's most voracious offensive rebounders.. Poeltl settles for push shots when one dribble -- or one power jump -- would take him to the rim. Poeltl has a decent floater, but that's a low-efficiency shot for all but a handful of players.
This is an intractable problem unless Poeltl improves his stroke. We have seen some Hack-a-Jak, and teams will resort to it if the Spurs play meaningful games.

[KobesAchilles]

Third spur featured on Lowe's 10 things this year. Not good but percentages are trending up during LA absence.

8. It's time to talk about Jakob Poeltl's free throw shooting

Poeltl has intuitive feel on both ends. He's a willing screener, and smart passer. The San Antonio Spurs have been massively better with Poeltl in place of LaMarcus Aldridge, though it's unclear how much of that would hold up if they swapped roles full-time.
San Antonio's defense -- quietly up to ninth in points allowed per possession -- would improve. Aldridge has lost mobility and most of whatever bounce he had left. Meanwhile, opponents are shooting 41% at the rim with Poeltl nearby -- lowest among all rotation players challenging at least two such shots per game, according to NBA.com.
But, umm, Poeltl is 10-of-35 (28.6%) on free throws. Seems like a problem. He hit 46.5% last season, and has been trending down since draining 59% in 2017-18.
Related: Poeltl averages 2.4 free throw attempts per 36 minutes -- very low for a big who lives near the basket and ranks among the league's most voracious offensive rebounders.. Poeltl settles for push shots when one dribble -- or one power jump -- would take him to the rim. Poeltl has a decent floater, but that's a low-efficiency shot for all but a handful of players.
This is an intractable problem unless Poeltl improves his stroke. We have seen some Hack-a-Jak, and teams will resort to it if the Spurs play meaningful games.

He is filling into his role as a back up big perfectly. There are holes in his game that he needs to fix offensively, finishing over people, he can be passive when he is 3 feet from the basket, and 28% free throw shooting I believe would be a record. He won't ever make it to 50% this year (I have doubts of him reaching 45%), but if he could learn to hit 1 of 2 from here on out that would be nice.

That said as long as he brings this constant effort on defense and offensive rebounding then he is a great guy to play 20 minutes a game. I'm not sure this team will have the scorers necessary for him to be a starter going forward (next year and beyond). But after a brutal start to a season, he has turned up the effort and intensity and I love what I see.

[cd98]

We are better off with Poeltl starting and playing a lot of minutes if our goal is to be the 8th seed. That would be a mistake. Spurs should start LMA and play the out of him so we can get in the lottery.

[Dejounte]

Jakob Poeltl is reminding me of Rudy Gobert.

Gobert has little to no offensive game to speak of.

He's currently leading the best team in the NBA right now along with Mitc .

"But you need bigs who can shoot 3s!"

[spurs1990]

Really need to eat my crow...was way too quick to go off on him after 10 games. His defense is so good

[FkLA]

Never doubted my Yak.

People were focusing on stupid like his FTs or him not being skilled enough on offense instead of what a monster he is on defense. He's a terror.

[Ice009]

Well, to be fair, he was fouling a lot on defense and I didn't think he'd be able to stay on the court. I don't think I ever said he sucked on defense, but I also didn't think he could stay on the court long enough to show it. I was thinking foul trouble could be a big issue with him staying on the court to play defense.

I am definitely eating some crow right now as he's starting to now play great. His free throws are still a valid concern going forward, because I do wonder if teams will go to hack-a-Yak in any meaningful games. He's going to have to learn to hit them at a respectable clip.

[Spursfanfromafar]

I like this. Poeltl is more valuable than any of you naysayers think and he *is* part of the rebuilding core for me. Its a contract that we will look back in the future and appreciate it more, I am sure.

Lets say ..except for the free throw %age, Poeltl is playing to his contract & more.

[rankingtear]

Well, to be fair, he was fouling a lot on defense and I didn't think he'd be able to stay on the court. I don't think I ever said he sucked on defense, but I also didn't think he could stay on the court long enough to show it. I was thinking foul trouble could be a big issue with him staying on the court to play defense.

I am definitely eating some crow right now as he's starting to now play great. His free throws are still a valid concern going forward, because I do wonder if teams will go to hack-a-Yak in any meaningful games. He's going to have to learn to hit them at a respectable clip.

He was a starter in the Denver series, i don't see it becoming that big of a problem. White losing confidence in his jumper was more of a turning point. Any of Keldon, DJ and White losing confidence in their jumper in a series is more of a problem than Jakob's free throw.

[Truckules]

Well, to be fair, he was fouling a lot on defense and I didn't think he'd be able to stay on the court. I don't think I ever said he sucked on defense, but I also didn't think he could stay on the court long enough to show it. I was thinking foul trouble could be a big issue with him staying on the court to play defense.

I am definitely eating some crow right now as he's starting to now play great. His free throws are still a valid concern going forward, because I do wonder if teams will go to hack-a-Yak in any meaningful games. He's going to have to learn to hit them at a respectable clip.

His free throws are an extremely minor concern as he rarely ever shoots free throws. He's only getting to the line 1.4 times per game. If he were to improve his free throw percentage to 75 percent, he'd only improve his overall points per game by 0.65 points. Also, hack-a-blank has kind of fallen out of favor in the league. The rule changes back in 2016 helped cause this but also the change in play style over the past few years has made intentional fouling less useful. You can't push the pace and generate secondary breaks off free throws so hack-a-Jak hurts the other teams' offense as much as it hurts the Spurs'. Additionally, the average margin of victory continues to climb due to 3 pt shooting, leading to fewer games being decided on free throws.

[Seventyniner]

His free throws are an extremely minor concern as he rarely ever shoots free throws. He's only getting to the line 1.4 times per game. If he were to improve his free throw percentage to 75 percent, he'd only improve his overall points per game by 0.65 points. Also, hack-a-blank has kind of fallen out of favor in the league. The rule changes back in 2016 helped cause this but also the change in play style over the past few years has made intentional fouling less useful. You can't push the pace and generate secondary breaks off free throws so hack-a-Jak hurts the other teams' offense as much as it hurts the Spurs'. Additionally, the average margin of victory continues to climb due to 3 pt shooting, leading to fewer games being decided on free throws.

Good points. Poeltl saves far more points on the defensive end than he gives up by being an awful FT shooter. Sometimes you just have to take the bad with the good, especially when the good outweighs the bad by this much.

It's certainly frustrating to have a key player be so bad at such a basic part of the game, but everyone has their flaws. There are plenty of rim protecting 5s throughout league history that have been bad FT shooters (and given Poeltl's low volume, as you correctly point out, there really isn't much difference between 28% and 50%) but have managed to make a net positive impact.

[RC_Drunkford]

Jakob Poeltl is reminding me of Rudy Gobert.

Gobert has little to no offensive game to speak of.

He's currently leading the best team in the NBA right now along with Mitc .

"But you need bigs who can shoot 3s!"

you definitely need a 3-point shooting big if you are starting DeRozan, Keldon Johnson and Murray. None of them are consistent enough from 3. Just wait when teams go zone

[Sugus]

Drummond is absolutely better than Poeltl. But no i wouldn’t want him as my first option. But yes, interesting time to necro the thread after Poeltl has played his best ball.

Second necro, I've been off the forum for a bit, and came back to yet more juicy "Andre "Better Than Poeltl" Drummond" news;

I've seen this video posted already in some other thread (was it my guy Dejounte? Maybe), but it's just way too good to not be posted here:

Andre Drummond is the WORST high usage offensive player in the league and it's not close.

https://streamable.com/gaj2eb

Better yet, the video surfaces on the new context of the Cavs - the mother ing Cavaliers - forcefully sitting out Drummond because he's just too awful of a player even for their low ing standards , then reportedly not even being able to start trade talks with any other team, because no one in their right mind wants this ing bum

Meanwhile, the Spurs, before COVID hit them, were firing on all cylinders after LMA's mysterious injury propelled Jakob to a starting role, and the offense/defense could adjust to his continuous presence. Statistically one of, if not the, best player on the Spurs due to his contributions to both ends - whilst Andre "Better Than Poeltl" Drummond is being benched, on purpose, by one of the worst teams in the league, just because he's so ing detrimental to their game

I don't think I'll ever get tired of dunking this over your head, spurraider21. At least not until you admit you were just boxscore-watching Drummond when you made your original comments. There's no way you could've been that deluded, whilst also having watched him play.... Right?

[spurraider21]

Second necro, I've been off the forum for a bit, and came back to yet more juicy "Andre "Better Than Poeltl" Drummond" news;

I've seen this video posted already in some other thread (was it my guy Dejounte? Maybe), but it's just way too good to not be posted here:

Andre Drummond is the WORST high usage offensive player in the league and it's not close.

https://streamable.com/gaj2eb

Better yet, the video surfaces on the new context of the Cavs - the mother ing Cavaliers - forcefully sitting out Drummond because he's just too awful of a player even for their low ing standards , then reportedly not even being able to start trade talks with any other team, because no one in their right mind wants this ing bum

Meanwhile, the Spurs, before COVID hit them, were firing on all cylinders after LMA's mysterious injury propelled Jakob to a starting role, and the offense/defense could adjust to his continuous presence. Statistically one of, if not the, best player on the Spurs due to his contributions to both ends - whilst Andre "Better Than Poeltl" Drummond is being benched, on purpose, by one of the worst teams in the league, just because he's so ing detrimental to their game

I don't think I'll ever get tired of dunking this over your head, spurraider21. At least not until you admit you were just boxscore-watching Drummond when you made your original comments. There's no way you could've been that deluded, whilst also having watched him play.... Right?

i never said i wanted him as a high usage offensive player, though, nor would he be on the spurs. the reason he cant find trade suitors is because his salary is quite high, and i already said in those discussions that i dont think there exists a trade that makes sense for the spurs to land drummond due in large part to that fact.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Agree with Sugus. Despite of the slow start Jakob deserves credit for the way he's turned his season around. A lot of posters here were salivating not only over Drummond and his empty stats, but also over the likes of Harry Giles and Aron Baynes, who are objectively much worse players. #justiceforjakob

[BackHome]

Give him and Spurs credit but to be honest we have been playing crappy teams lately and some without Key players. Will see how we really are when we start playing playoff type teams.

The thing with Poodle is that if we’re ever in the playoffs he won’t be able to play at key times cause you know they going to foul him all night long.

[3&D_TBH]

Hard no on drummond. He is a turnover machine and a terrible decision maker. Not to mention his terrible touch around the rim. Spurs won't touch him imo

[Sugus]

i never said i wanted him as a high usage offensive player, though

I know, and that's the part where I have to wonder whether you'd ever watched Drummond play before we had our initial discussion . The very fatal flaw that Drummond has, that has plagued him his whole career and probably will until his retirement (and plagued many such players, notably Melo), is a failure to recognize the limits of their ability, and incorporate themselves into an offense, instead of trying to be the offense. The same way you couldn't tell Melo not to hog the ball or take every last shot, you can't simply tell Drummond "oh, just lower your usage!" and limit him to rebounds and catching lobs. He's going to post up, shoot hooks, fadeaways, face-dribble into the paint, and shoot all those low-percentage shots that make him such a ty player. That's exactly the reason he hasn't worked out on any team - and the reason I made my original statement, which holds ever-so-true:

Poeltl could score 0 points the entirety of this season, and I still wouldn't want any part of Drummond, tbh

the reason he cant find trade suitors is because his salary is quite high, and i already said in those discussions that i dont think there exists a trade that makes sense for the spurs to land drummond due in large part to that fact.

False.

He's an expiring, and isn't even such a wildly big salary that a team who truly desired him couldn't accommodate him in a trade ( , the cupboard-stripped-bare Nets were able to trade for a much higher salary in Harden because they wanted him enough to mortgage their future). The true reason he "can't find suitors" (read: the Cavs can't find any gullible team that'll take him off their hands without shipping out an asset to get rid of him) is because he's an awful, awful, awful player. The fact that no team is even inquiring about his price (and "his price" was literally a second-round pick or something like that, the last time he was traded ) is a true testament to how Andre Drummond is as a modern NBA basketball player.


Again, you can admit you were absolutely wrong... Or have me bumping this thread every time Poeltl has a dominant defensive performance

[spurraider21]

I know, and that's the part where I have to wonder whether you'd ever watched Drummond play before we had our initial discussion . The very fatal flaw that Drummond has, that has plagued him his whole career and probably will until his retirement (and plagued many such players, notably Melo), is a failure to recognize the limits of their ability, and incorporate themselves into an offense, instead of trying to be the offense. The same way you couldn't tell Melo not to hog the ball or take every last shot, you can't simply tell Drummond "oh, just lower your usage!" and limit him to rebounds and catching lobs. He's going to post up, shoot hooks, fadeaways, face-dribble into the paint, and shoot all those low-percentage shots that make him such a ty player. That's exactly the reason he hasn't worked out on any team - and the reason I made my original statement, which holds ever-so-true:






False.

He's an expiring, and isn't even such a wildly big salary that a team who truly desired him couldn't accommodate him in a trade ( , the cupboard-stripped-bare Nets were able to trade for a much higher salary in Harden because they wanted him enough to mortgage their future). The true reason he "can't find suitors" (read: the Cavs can't find any gullible team that'll take him off their hands without shipping out an asset to get rid of him) is because he's an awful, awful, awful player. The fact that no team is even inquiring about his price (and "his price" was literally a second-round pick or something like that, the last time he was traded ) is a true testament to how Andre Drummond is as a modern NBA basketball player.


Again, you can admit you were absolutely wrong... Or have me bumping this thread every time Poeltl has a dominant defensive performance

you can feel free to bump whatever you want. you were the one who kept waffling about your position. every time i said you think Poeltl is a better player than Drummond, you denied it

my position is and was clear. i thought that, in a vacuum (ie not considering salary), that Drummond is a better player than Poeltl (by the way, this is a point you agreed with, see my next post). i also never said that i would want Drummond here if he was going to be a high volume offense guy.

ive said plenty of good things about poeltl since he stepped his game up after is lousy start to the season, so im not cheering against him just for more retroactive online Ws

[Sugus]

Agree with Sugus. Despite of the slow start Jakob deserves credit for the way he's turned his season around. A lot of posters here were salivating not only over Drummond and his empty stats, but also over the likes of Harry Giles and Aron Baynes, who are objectively much worse players. #justiceforjakob

Yeah, I'm waiting just a tad bit more (sadly it'll be a longer wait, now with our next games postponed) before I start to actually, truly necro-bump this thread by quoting all the ridiculous naysayers, and posters who were literally complaining about a $9M signing that locked up one of the best defensive centers in the NBA.

But muh shooting bigs!! Poeltl hasn't improved at all!!