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  1. #801
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    That’s my point. When you have a starting lineup with two superstars, you can get by with a skillless stiff as your starting center. The Spurs are years away (absent mismanagement) from being in that position.
    On teams with superstars. On a team stacked with role players? no
    So your problem is not with Poeltl but the fact that the Spurs don't have superstars at other positions because if we did have superstars, he would be fine. So why not argue for better players at the other positions, instead of focusing on one player who's as "minimally impactful on winning" as the other guys? And *if* Poeltl was just as good as the other guys in the SL, how far would that hypothetical team go given that no one from 1-5 is a superstar? This circular reasoning is fun.

  2. #802
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    Ok, this Shaq argument is assinine. Shaq was absolutely a dominant offensive player (Shaq O >> Poetl D), and quite good defensively (even when you got him out covering a wing on a switch, his feet weren't terrible; in the post he was force ... Shaq D >> Poetl O).

    Wrt to the "How many points were the centers for the Heat and the Lakers scoring last year?", that's Davis and Bam. In the finals, Davis was 25.0 pts/game and Bam was 15.3. On the season, Davis 26.1 ppg and Bam was 15.9 ppg. Both of them were major figures in the offense. People don't seem to realize it, but the teams that win out still tend to have very good bigs (at both ends of the floor). Just like it has always been, you need all the parts to win.

  3. #803
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    That’s my point. When you have a starting lineup with two superstars, you can get by with a skillless stiff as your starting center. The Spurs are years away (absent mismanagement) from being in that position.
    I agree on the superstars, but that's to compete for a le. You need superstars regardless for that. You think he's skill-less and you are en led to your opinion. Maybe he's "skill-less" compared to the great centers of the 90s or Tim Duncan. But for today's NBA, he has what I consider to be very valuable skills. From what I see in the NBA, anyone that can block or alter shots in the paint and switch on defenders and guard on the perimeter and guard the pick and roll are incredibly valuable, even if their scoring is limited. And even though he doesn't have a post-up game and sometimes is a little to weak in the paint, he is a top level passer out of the high post, which is a valuable skill and he is great at setting screens and playing a roller. Yes, if he had superstars, he'd probably score more, but that's not his fault. For a big, he does everything a team needs. He'd start on most NBA teams right now. But yes, the rest of our positions are not nearly as adequate as he is at center. We don't have a true point guard and our offense relies entirely on DDR either scoring or creating shots. Other guys around Jakob need to play better if the Spurs want to make the playoffs.

  4. #804
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    You are missing my point. You aren't hurting by a bad free throw shooter when he rarely touches the ball on offense except to catch dump off passes or pass from the high post. Those guys don't shoot a lot of free throws so a low free throw percentage doesn't kill your value. And my point is not comparing the centers from a skill sense, it's saying that Shaq was a big man that touched the ball constantly and had the ball in the post constantly and he won three championships despite the fact that he was a horrible free throw shooter. So if a team can win a le with a high volume scorer that is a terrible free throw shooter, then a low volume center that can't shoot free throws, but plays great defense is not a bar from making and winning in the playoffs.

    Remember that now days, you can't foul someone that doesn't have the ball in a close game or it's a technical. So you can't intentionally foul him unless he is holding the ball, which is very rare in the Spurs offense. My point is his free throw shooting doesn't mean he can't be a starting center on a playoff team. I think he could.
    i got ur point but I just think it’s a bad one. You compared Jak to the most dominant center of all time. What Shaq was to offense, Jak is NOT to defense. Also if Jak was only a bad free throw, then what you say makes sense. But he is terrible on all facets of offense. He can’t roll particularly well, he can’t finish lay ups, he rarely dunks, and the dude can’t post anybody. He also couldn’t finish an ally oop. He sets screens for others and does hand offs and that is about it.

  5. #805
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    i got ur point but I just think it’s a bad one. You compared Jak to the most dominant center of all time. What Shaq was to offense, Jak is NOT to defense. Also if Jak was only a bad free throw, then what you say makes sense. But he is terrible on all facets of offense. He can’t roll particularly well, he can’t finish lay ups, he rarely dunks, and the dude can’t post anybody. He also couldn’t finish an ally oop. He sets screens for others and does hand offs and that is about it.
    No, I didn't compare him to an all-time great. I don't think he is anywhere near as good as Shaq as an offensive player. My point is comparing their free throw percentages and saying that you can win with a center that doesn't shoot free throws well if they are good at defense. My point is that even though Shaq was a horrible free throw shooter and particularly because he was a high volume shooter and had the ball in his hands all the time and the rules favored intentional fouling, he still was on the floor regardless of his poor free throw shooting and he won 3 championships in a row. So a center now adays that has a role as a defensive player and screen/roll on offense that shoots bad free throws, but doesn't have the ball in his hands at all can still be on the court in the playoffs and contribute.

    I'm comparing poor free throw shooters and their ability to be on the court. I'm not comparing Shaq's low post skills with Jakob.

  6. #806
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    Ok, this Shaq argument is assinine. Shaq was absolutely a dominant offensive player (Shaq O >> Poetl D), and quite good defensively (even when you got him out covering a wing on a switch, his feet weren't terrible; in the post he was force ... Shaq D >> Poetl O).

    Wrt to the "How many points were the centers for the Heat and the Lakers scoring last year?", that's Davis and Bam. In the finals, Davis was 25.0 pts/game and Bam was 15.3. On the season, Davis 26.1 ppg and Bam was 15.9 ppg. Both of them were major figures in the offense. People don't seem to realize it, but the teams that win out still tend to have very good bigs (at both ends of the floor). Just like it has always been, you need all the parts to win.
    They are comparing free throws. Side note Poeltl is up 50 % in march and 44 % in Feb. Not that good but low volume and the new rules in place i don't see it much of a problem ( last 2 minutes of the quarter 2 ft and possesion ). Teams don't really want to get into foul trouble early.

  7. #807
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    i got ur point but I just think it’s a bad one. You compared Jak to the most dominant center of all time. What Shaq was to offense, Jak is NOT to defense. Also if Jak was only a bad free throw, then what you say makes sense. But he is terrible on all facets of offense. He can’t roll particularly well, he can’t finish lay ups, he rarely dunks, and the dude can’t post anybody. He also couldn’t finish an ally oop. He sets screens for others and does hand offs and that is about it.
    Is offensive rebounding a part of an offense? He is 9th in off reb percentage.

  8. #808
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    I remember when everyone would argue that Old Time Centers with no outside game were a thing of the past and guys like our draft pick Nikola V. were Dinosaurs who should not be brought over because they had no 3 ball game and no outside shooting. But somehow we end up with an Ancient Dinosaur who just doesn’t have a 3 ball game he has NO Offensive game at all and everyone is cool with that?

  9. #809
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    Without lma our frontcourt weakness in glaring
    I thought it was glaring WITH him. Yikes.

  10. #810
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    I remember when everyone would argue that Old Time Centers with no outside game were a thing of the past and guys like our draft pick Nikola V. were Dinosaurs who should not be brought over because they had no 3 ball game and no outside shooting. But somehow we end up with an Ancient Dinosaur who just doesn’t have a 3 ball game he has NO Offensive game at all and everyone is cool with that?
    Still waiting for players with both good rim protection and 3 ball to get to the league. Sometimes you have to settle for good rim protection.

  11. #811
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    Here's where he stands league wise at the stripe among all players with minimum 10 FT attempts.

    Magnificently horrific performance by Poetle.

    The next worst volume shooter Steven Adams is still 10 pts higher.
    Only 8 players shooting less than 50%. A good list of players not to pick from in free agency.

    20 Worst FT shooters in the NBA (10+ attempts)
    Rk Player Pos Tm G GS MP FG% FT FTA FT%^ PTS
    10 Tacko Fall C BOS 9 0 66 .706 3 11 .273 27
    14 Jakob Poeltl C SAS 35 17 835 .600 18 51 .353 228
    15 Ish Smith PG WAS 19 1 391 .379 6 15 .400 99
    19 Steven Adams C NOP 36 36 987 .629 39 85 .459 297
    20 Thanasis Antetokounmpo SF MIL 28 0 241 .596 6 13 .462 64
    21 T.J. McConnell PG IND 34 2 858 .525 9 19 .474 225
    22 Mitc Robinson C NYK 27 27 778 .660 22 46 .478 228
    23 Bismack Biyombo C CHO 35 19 770 .552 30 62 .484 190
    24 DeAndre Jordan C BRK 37 28 855 .765 29 58 .500 277
    25 Jaden McDaniels PF MIN 32 1 621 .419 12 24 .500 179
    51 Grant Williams PF BOS 30 6 542 .467 16 31 .516 155
    52 Precious Achiuwa PF MIA 38 2 510 .584 44 83 .530 218
    53 Thaddeus Young PF CHI 33 1 826 .601 26 49 .531 399
    54 Clint Capela C ATL 34 34 1004 .597 60 113 .531 504
    55 Mychal Mulder PG GSW 34 2 360 .435 8 15 .533 140
    56 Dwight Howard C PHI 39 4 637 .597 57 106 .538 251
    57 Caleb Martin SF CHO 27 1 402 .415 14 26 .538 145
    58 Amir Coffey SG LAC 22 0 177 .490 7 13 .538 71
    59 Luka Samanic PF SAS 12 1 122 .436 7 13 .538 49
    60 Hassan Whiteside C SAC 23 1 335 .580 30 55 .545 190


    Provided by Basketball-Reference.com: View Original Table
    Generated 3/15/2021.

  12. #812
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    I remember when everyone would argue that Old Time Centers with no outside game were a thing of the past and guys like our draft pick Nikola V. were Dinosaurs who should not be brought over because they had no 3 ball game and no outside shooting. But somehow we end up with an Ancient Dinosaur who just doesn’t have a 3 ball game he has NO Offensive game at all and everyone is cool with that?
    Well LMA is a good three point shooting big man, but as you can see, without the mobility on defense, the 3 point shooting isn't enough.

  13. #813
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    Here's where he stands league wise at the stripe among all players with minimum 10 FT attempts.

    Magnificently horrific performance by Poetle.

    The next worst volume shooter Steven Adams is still 10 pts higher.
    Only 8 players shooting less than 50%. A good list of players not to pick from in free agency.

    20 Worst FT shooters in the NBA (10+ attempts)
    Rk Player Pos Tm G GS MP FG% FT FTA FT%^ PTS
    10 Tacko Fall C BOS 9 0 66 .706 3 11 .273 27
    14 Jakob Poeltl C SAS 35 17 835 .600 18 51 .353 228
    15 Ish Smith PG WAS 19 1 391 .379 6 15 .400 99
    19 Steven Adams C NOP 36 36 987 .629 39 85 .459 297
    20 Thanasis Antetokounmpo SF MIL 28 0 241 .596 6 13 .462 64
    21 T.J. McConnell PG IND 34 2 858 .525 9 19 .474 225
    22 Mitc Robinson C NYK 27 27 778 .660 22 46 .478 228
    23 Bismack Biyombo C CHO 35 19 770 .552 30 62 .484 190
    24 DeAndre Jordan C BRK 37 28 855 .765 29 58 .500 277
    25 Jaden McDaniels PF MIN 32 1 621 .419 12 24 .500 179
    51 Grant Williams PF BOS 30 6 542 .467 16 31 .516 155
    52 Precious Achiuwa PF MIA 38 2 510 .584 44 83 .530 218
    53 Thaddeus Young PF CHI 33 1 826 .601 26 49 .531 399
    54 Clint Capela C ATL 34 34 1004 .597 60 113 .531 504
    55 Mychal Mulder PG GSW 34 2 360 .435 8 15 .533 140
    56 Dwight Howard C PHI 39 4 637 .597 57 106 .538 251
    57 Caleb Martin SF CHO 27 1 402 .415 14 26 .538 145
    58 Amir Coffey SG LAC 22 0 177 .490 7 13 .538 71
    59 Luka Samanic PF SAS 12 1 122 .436 7 13 .538 49
    60 Hassan Whiteside C SAC 23 1 335 .580 30 55 .545 190


    Provided by Basketball-Reference.com: View Original Table
    Generated 3/15/2021.
    I think everyone agrees that his free throw shooting is horrible, though I have seen some improvement in his form.

  14. #814
    Veteran KobesAchilles's Avatar
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    Is offensive rebounding a part of an offense? He is 9th in off reb percentage.
    I suppose it is. So he does everything well on offense except putting the ball in the basket, spacing, and know how of where to be. These are kinda important things but hey that’s just me I guess. Nice back up big. 20-25 minutes a game. But if he is our starter of the future, we are ed

  15. #815
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    Here's where he stands league wise at the stripe among all players with minimum 10 FT attempts.

    Magnificently horrific performance by Poetle.

    The next worst volume shooter Steven Adams is still 10 pts higher.
    Only 8 players shooting less than 50%. A good list of players not to pick from in free agency.

    20 Worst FT shooters in the NBA (10+ attempts)
    Rk Player Pos Tm G GS MP FG% FT FTA FT%^ PTS
    10 Tacko Fall C BOS 9 0 66 .706 3 11 .273 27
    14 Jakob Poeltl C SAS 35 17 835 .600 18 51 .353 228
    15 Ish Smith PG WAS 19 1 391 .379 6 15 .400 99
    19 Steven Adams C NOP 36 36 987 .629 39 85 .459 297
    20 Thanasis Antetokounmpo SF MIL 28 0 241 .596 6 13 .462 64
    21 T.J. McConnell PG IND 34 2 858 .525 9 19 .474 225
    22 Mitc Robinson C NYK 27 27 778 .660 22 46 .478 228
    23 Bismack Biyombo C CHO 35 19 770 .552 30 62 .484 190
    24 DeAndre Jordan C BRK 37 28 855 .765 29 58 .500 277
    25 Jaden McDaniels PF MIN 32 1 621 .419 12 24 .500 179
    51 Grant Williams PF BOS 30 6 542 .467 16 31 .516 155
    52 Precious Achiuwa PF MIA 38 2 510 .584 44 83 .530 218
    53 Thaddeus Young PF CHI 33 1 826 .601 26 49 .531 399
    54 Clint Capela C ATL 34 34 1004 .597 60 113 .531 504
    55 Mychal Mulder PG GSW 34 2 360 .435 8 15 .533 140
    56 Dwight Howard C PHI 39 4 637 .597 57 106 .538 251
    57 Caleb Martin SF CHO 27 1 402 .415 14 26 .538 145
    58 Amir Coffey SG LAC 22 0 177 .490 7 13 .538 71
    59 Luka Samanic PF SAS 12 1 122 .436 7 13 .538 49
    60 Hassan Whiteside C SAC 23 1 335 .580 30 55 .545 190


    Provided by Basketball-Reference.com: View Original Table
    Generated 3/15/2021.
    FIFY

    Player Pos Tm G MP FG% FT FTA FT%^ PTS
    Jaden McDaniels PF MIN 32 621 0.419 12 24 0.500 179
    Grant Williams PF BOS 30 542 0.467 16 31 0.516 155
    Mitc Robinson C NYK 27 778 0.660 22 46 0.478 228
    Thaddeus Young PF CHI 33 826 0.601 26 49 0.531 399
    Jakob Poeltl C SAS 35 835 0.600 18 51 0.353 228
    DeAndre Jordan C BRK 37 855 0.765 29 58 0.500 277
    Bismack Biyombo C CHO 35 770 0.552 30 62 0.484 190
    Steven Adams C NOP 36 987 0.629 39 85 0.459 297
    Dwight Howard C PHI 39 637 0.597 57 106 0.538 251
    Clint Capela C ATL 34 1004 0.597 60 113 0.531 504


    Jakob's FT has been abysmal, but this is the better way for you to organize the data set. Excluding guys with <500 mpg and sorting by FTA is a more appropriate way to look at it.

    The comparable bigs are: Mitc Robinson, Thaddeus Young, DeAndre Jordan, Bismack Biyombo.

  16. #816
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    I think everyone agrees that his free throw shooting is horrible, though I have seen some improvement in his form.
    Yeah Poeltl is free throw is up 47% last 2 months.

  17. #817
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    I suppose it is. So he does everything well on offense except putting the ball in the basket, spacing, and know how of where to be. These are kinda important things but hey that’s just me I guess. Nice back up big. 20-25 minutes a game. But if he is our starter of the future, we are ed
    It is totally fine for you to think he sucks and is a scrub. If you value a center that can average 15+ points a game, he's not your man. But I disagree that he doesn't know where to be and spacing. Now, is he a space creator? Well yes, because teams have to account for him on the pick and roll so they can't not guard him. And they have to have a man on him on the offensive boards. Is he a spacer for three point shooting? No, of course not. So he does create some kind of space in that he can't be ignored by a defense, but he does require that you have several three point shooters around him so the offense doesn't get clogged. I think we agree on that. That's why we need a 4 that can shoot threes. I think he also knows where to be. Now can he put the ball in the basket? He can. Is he a great scorer? No. Does he do layups sometimes when he should dunk? Yes. Does his runners in the lane look weak? They do. But can he make a living with garbage points? Yes, he can do enough. Spurs were not signing him for his offense, they were signing him for his defense. His offense is good enough because his defense is very good. He's one of the best defensive players in the league.

    He's not Ben Wallace, but he impacts the game from a defensive perspective like Ben Wallace. Ben Wallace couldn't score to save his life, but his defense was otherworldly. Jakob isn't Wallace, but he does enough, I believe, to keep him as a starter and I think he would start on a lot of other NBA teams too.

  18. #818
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    It is totally fine for you to think he sucks and is a scrub. If you value a center that can average 15+ points a game, he's not your man. But I disagree that he doesn't know where to be and spacing. Now, is he a space creator? Well yes, because teams have to account for him on the pick and roll so they can't not guard him. And they have to have a man on him on the offensive boards. Is he a spacer for three point shooting? No, of course not. So he does create some kind of space in that he can't be ignored by a defense, but he does require that you have several three point shooters around him so the offense doesn't get clogged. I think we agree on that. That's why we need a 4 that can shoot threes. I think he also knows where to be. Now can he put the ball in the basket? He can. Is he a great scorer? No. Does he do layups sometimes when he should dunk? Yes. Does his runners in the lane look weak? They do. But can he make a living with garbage points? Yes, he can do enough. Spurs were not signing him for his offense, they were signing him for his defense. His offense is good enough because his defense is very good. He's one of the best defensive players in the league.

    He's not Ben Wallace, but he impacts the game from a defensive perspective like Ben Wallace. Ben Wallace couldn't score to save his life, but his defense was otherworldly. Jakob isn't Wallace, but he does enough, I believe, to keep him as a starter and I think he would start on a lot of other NBA teams too.
    On other NBA teams sure he could start. There are a lot of teams out there. But he shouldn’t be a starter on ours. We don’t have the personal for it. You yourself have admitted that. You seem to be stuck in the past and that just isn’t the way the league works anymore. We aren’t built like the 04 Pistons and we aren’t coached like it either. There’s a reason why Larry Brown went to college, he couldn’t get away with the he pulls as a coach just the same way there is a reason why Pop babies his personal. It’s different times.

    Everything today is all offense. The league has made every rule to benefit offense. You can’t even put a forearm on a big man anymore for Christ sakes. Jakob is a bench big. It probably would take 15 points a game for him to start and be effective next year bc we don’t have a true #1. And when teams focus solely on DJ next year (if we lose DDR) that only makes it that much harder to score. Jak needs DDR or else he just isn’t a starter.

    Also nah he doesn’t know where to be on offense once he is in the paint. There were like 4 possessions against Philly where I was just thinking to myself take 1 step in! Do it and get that lay up! He needs to be tutored by Tiago tbh. That guy was a master.

  19. #819
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    Get the in here Poodle Slurpers and defend this ty excuse of offense
    But I thought Pop developed him. What happened son?

  20. #820
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    But I thought Pop developed him. What happened son?
    He did. On defense. Offense not so much. He isn’t Jesus. But I’m known as the original Poodle hater here tbh so naturally I’m all over the place

  21. #821
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    reading SpursTalk the morning after a bad loss never gets less funny. It's good to see that Poeltl has now become the designated whipping boy of ST, to be blamed for every mishap the team has. I'm actually a bit surprised at just how quickly the forum made a full heel-face 180º turn with previous IG Baller, now Golden Boy, Dejounte Murray. Don't think I've read a single negative comment about his performance yesterday across all the threads, funny stuff.

    I agree with most that Poeltl starting in this team's current configuration (more like, Pop's current configuration of the team, because there's answers to be had, just none that he'd consider) is far from ideal. I disagree, however, that Jakob is the piece to be moved, and it'd be really interesting to see a conversation about that, because most of the forum doesn't look willing to have it. Most are focused on "Poeltl can't be a starter on a championship-calibre team!!" (I'll excuse that re who said he couldn't start for a playoff team, that's just too laughable to adress); but which one of our other starters could start on a championship team, for real? I don't see White being durable enough to handle a deep playoff run. Murray, for all his improvements (he's closest in my ranking to the criteria), is still too prone to disappear, and gets tamed when his shot isn't falling, especially if the other team bullies him into taking 3's when he's cold. Keldon's also a good candidate, and I won't be harsh on him since he's recovering from COVID, but he's much too far away in critical skills like handles and outside-shooting.

    I don't want to get too whataboutical about this, but my point is, people here ridiculously hold Poeltl to a high standard, to which they don't hold other players. I actually agree with KobesAchilles on a lot of stuff - but it's more in the vein of his "talent in the NBA should be primarily focused on the wings and guards for optimal roster construction" takes than his "Poeltl is a stiff scrub" ones. It really has to be asked - do the Spurs have anywhere close to championship-level talent at the wings or guards spots? And if they don't, and considering the way the league trends, why is everyone focused on trashing the least valuable offensive position player, when the rest of the team disappears on that end as well?

    This is the thing that puzzles me. The Spurs couldn't crack 100 points last night. It's only one loss, I won't cliff-jump over it, but to me it's been apparent for a while that we lack that offensive powerhouse player - we see it when we face Dallas, when we face the Grizzlies, when we face the Pelicans, etc. And, the most ironic aspect of all - the Doncic's, Ja's, Trae's of the league, would all play much better alongside someone like Poeltl to cover their offense-primed game, than someone like Dejounte taking the ball away from them. Isn't it ironic?

    I'm interested to see where the Spurs go beyond this season, whether they recognize this limitation and try to get "that" talent through the draft, or luring some FA like Lauri Markkannen to try and develop him into a cornerstone, or just ignore the issue altogether and double down on their playoff aspirations. But the criticism on here is really wack sometimes (most times, tbh).

  22. #822
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    On other NBA teams sure he could start. There are a lot of teams out there. But he shouldn’t be a starter on ours. We don’t have the personal for it. You yourself have admitted that. You seem to be stuck in the past and that just isn’t the way the league works anymore. We aren’t built like the 04 Pistons and we aren’t coached like it either. There’s a reason why Larry Brown went to college, he couldn’t get away with the he pulls as a coach just the same way there is a reason why Pop babies his personal. It’s different times.

    Everything today is all offense. The league has made every rule to benefit offense. You can’t even put a forearm on a big man anymore for Christ sakes. Jakob is a bench big. It probably would take 15 points a game for him to start and be effective next year bc we don’t have a true #1. And when teams focus solely on DJ next year (if we lose DDR) that only makes it that much harder to score. Jak needs DDR or else he just isn’t a starter.

    Also nah he doesn’t know where to be on offense once he is in the paint. There were like 4 possessions against Philly where I was just thinking to myself take 1 step in! Do it and get that lay up! He needs to be tutored by Tiago tbh. That guy was a master.
    Well I somewhat agree but disagree. We don't have the roster, but there isn't a center in the league that we have the roster to support right now because we do not have great shooters. The center is not our problem, in my opinion. It's the other guys. We have a solid defensive team. Our team is built on defense. We are Pistonesque in that we are going to win games by Spurs D, but it's a different kind of D. Spurs are not bruisers like Detroit was. The Spurs play the passing lanes and have athletes that can switch. Everyone in the starting lineup, include Jakob, can switch and guard a guy on the perimeter, even DDR can sometimes. It is our defense and pace that makes us compe ive and our superior bench. Without that, we'd lose every game by 30 points.

    But you could put most centers in the league on this team and you'd have the same problems on offense. We have the defense, but we need guys to continue to improve on outside shooting and shot creation and execution. We also don't have a Top Dog scorer. Those are hard to get. DDR is as close as we got. He's good, but he's more of a two. We need a star beyond him and maybe if we stink and end up in the lottery, we can get that. Otherwise, we just have to hope for internal improvement. But getting rid of Jakob won't fix that. He's a good modern center. You don't need to be a three point shooter if you can play game changing defense. Even in a league with high scoring, you need good defense. That's why the Jazz are number one and that's why the 76ers are number two. Great defenses. You need offense, but you need a good enough defense. The Spurs just need time to cook and get better and develop on offense.

  23. #823
    Veteran Sugus's Avatar
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    Well I somewhat agree but disagree. We don't have the roster, but there isn't a center in the league that we have the roster to support right now because we do not have great shooters. The center is not our problem, in my opinion. It's the other guys. We have a solid defensive team. Our team is built on defense. We are Pistonesque in that we are going to win games by Spurs D, but it's a different kind of D. Spurs are not bruisers like Detroit was. The Spurs play the passing lanes and have athletes that can switch. Everyone in the starting lineup, include Jakob, can switch and guard a guy on the perimeter, even DDR can sometimes. It is our defense and pace that makes us compe ive and our superior bench. Without that, we'd lose every game by 30 points.

    But you could put most centers in the league on this team and you'd have the same problems on offense. We have the defense, but we need guys to continue to improve on outside shooting and shot creation and execution. We also don't have a Top Dog scorer. Those are hard to get. DDR is as close as we got. He's good, but he's more of a two. We need a star beyond him and maybe if we stink and end up in the lottery, we can get that. Otherwise, we just have to hope for internal improvement. But getting rid of Jakob won't fix that. He's a good modern center. You don't need to be a three point shooter if you can play game changing defense. Even in a league with high scoring, you need good defense. That's why the Jazz are number one and that's why the 76ers are number two. Great defenses. You need offense, but you need a good enough defense. The Spurs just need time to cook and get better and develop on offense.
    It's good that I typed my comment before you did, 'cause I'd be accused of plagiarizing otherwise . Exactly, my guy.

    The irony here is people wanting to replace Jakob, the best defender on the team, with a shooting-but-not-defending big, just to try and shore up the offensive weaknesses of the rest of the team/SL. Why they think the defense would stay the same, and the offense improve, instead of the opposite happening (the defense falling apart without an anchor and multiple low IQ defenders in the SL, and the offense not getting significantly better with adding a 35-38% shooting big that might not even get a lot of touches with the ball-dominant guards on the roster), is beyond me.

    Yesterday's game was bad all around. We should hang our hats on defense, and instead fell apart against a team missing its best player (a C, by the way, for those of the exhaling crew anointing the blame fully on Poeltl and especially his woes against star big men). It was a team-wide egg laid, to be blamed just as much on Poeltl as Lyles, and Patty, and White and even DJ. Long-term, in a modern NBA that's more offense-oriented than ever before, I'm definitely more worried about whether the guards we now consider "the future" can measure up to other teams' actual cornerstones, than whether our defensive C can shoot 3's or not. You don't build championship contenders on C's that shoot 3's, unless they're elite at literally every other facet of the game, including defense, like Anthony Davis (I've said earlier in this thread, that the player people want to replace Poeltl with, is only found in the top-2 of any given draft).

    Cheers.

  24. #824
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    On other NBA teams sure he could start. There are a lot of teams out there. But he shouldn’t be a starter on ours. We don’t have the personal for it. You yourself have admitted that. You seem to be stuck in the past and that just isn’t the way the league works anymore. We aren’t built like the 04 Pistons and we aren’t coached like it either. There’s a reason why Larry Brown went to college, he couldn’t get away with the he pulls as a coach just the same way there is a reason why Pop babies his personal. It’s different times.

    Everything today is all offense. The league has made every rule to benefit offense. You can’t even put a forearm on a big man anymore for Christ sakes. Jakob is a bench big. It probably would take 15 points a game for him to start and be effective next year bc we don’t have a true #1. And when teams focus solely on DJ next year (if we lose DDR) that only makes it that much harder to score. Jak needs DDR or else he just isn’t a starter.

    Also nah he doesn’t know where to be on offense once he is in the paint. There were like 4 possessions against Philly where I was just thinking to myself take 1 step in! Do it and get that lay up! He needs to be tutored by Tiago tbh. That guy was a master.
    I agree that the league is all about offense. Because the Spurs always love to do the opposite of everyone else, maybe they are prioritizing defense to go against the grain. It’s also a more logical model when you’re a small market franchise that cannot attract any top talent. Just spitballing.

  25. #825
    Veteran KobesAchilles's Avatar
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    Well I somewhat agree but disagree. We don't have the roster, but there isn't a center in the league that we have the roster to support right now because we do not have great shooters. The center is not our problem, in my opinion. It's the other guys. We have a solid defensive team. Our team is built on defense. We are Pistonesque in that we are going to win games by Spurs D, but it's a different kind of D. Spurs are not bruisers like Detroit was. The Spurs play the passing lanes and have athletes that can switch. Everyone in the starting lineup, include Jakob, can switch and guard a guy on the perimeter, even DDR can sometimes. It is our defense and pace that makes us compe ive and our superior bench. Without that, we'd lose every game by 30 points.

    But you could put most centers in the league on this team and you'd have the same problems on offense. We have the defense, but we need guys to continue to improve on outside shooting and shot creation and execution. We also don't have a Top Dog scorer. Those are hard to get. DDR is as close as we got. He's good, but he's more of a two. We need a star beyond him and maybe if we stink and end up in the lottery, we can get that. Otherwise, we just have to hope for internal improvement. But getting rid of Jakob won't fix that. He's a good modern center. You don't need to be a three point shooter if you can play game changing defense. Even in a league with high scoring, you need good defense. That's why the Jazz are number one and that's why the 76ers are number two. Great defenses. You need offense, but you need a good enough defense. The Spurs just need time to cook and get better and develop on offense.
    i don’t want to get rid of Jak. He has improved so much that I actually want to keep him. I couldn’t say that before the year. Though I think I literally wanted everybody gone except White, Lonnie, and KJ after last years show

    I just think Jak should be part of the super sub crew. He is a beast in spurts of the game, which is perfect for a bench player. I really don’t know what the solution is going forward. Bc we are one piece from being contenders but also like one injury from really sucking. It might be the best of both worlds if we get a run of slight injuries and end up accidentally tanking and get that “key piece” that we need

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