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  1. #951
    Veteran KobesAchilles's Avatar
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    Bench player doing bench player things. Nothing to see compared to a starter

  2. #952
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    Bench player doing bench player things. Nothing to see compared to a starter
    Expected scorer NOT doing expected scorer things. Lonnie also has MUCH more control over whether he scores or not, being a ball handler. Poodle is dependent on a pass.

  3. #953
    Veteran RC_Drunkford's Avatar
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    All the points in the paint were because we have a 6’5” guy at PF. As good as Poeltl is protecting the rim he spent a lot of time on the perimeter as 7 3 point contests attests to. That’s when you need a secondary rim protector which we don’t have in the starting line up.
    which is exactly why I want John Collins

  4. #954
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    which is exactly why I want John Collins
    He ain't coming here.

  5. #955
    Veteran KobesAchilles's Avatar
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    Expected scorer NOT doing expected scorer things. Lonnie also has MUCH more control over whether he scores or not, being a ball handler. Poodle is dependent on a pass.
    You are actually proving my point more and more with each post
    Young guys will be inconsistent scorers going forward (and Lonnie is as inconsistent as it gets) without DDR so we need are going to need Poeltl to score more in order for us to win. Next year, the games Poeltl scores single digits will have a lot more L's than they do W's.

  6. #956
    Believe. PrimeMinister's Avatar
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    Post-DDR if the spurs are relying on scoring output from Jakob Poeltl instead of an offense led by a more mature Dejounte, Derrick and Keldon with Lonnie and Luka serving as the bench and auxiliary scorers they have bigger problems than a center

  7. #957
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    Post-DDR if the spurs are relying on scoring output from Jakob Poeltl instead of an offense led by a more mature Dejounte, Derrick and Keldon with Lonnie and Luka serving as the bench and auxiliary scorers they have bigger problems than a center

  8. #958
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    Good points.

    I joke that Pop overdevelops young players sometimes. Like, its good to make young players earn their minutes, but when they do what you ask them to do, then you need to reward them with minutes. Luka might not play again until next year and he hopefully will do great. But he was already having a few great games on defense a few weeks ago. Even The Ringer noticed. And we aren’t letting him get experience now because why exactly? The tough love worked. Now just play the dude!
    For sure, I don't think it's a joke whatsoever, and Lonnie (despite all his physical problems and he's going through) is all you need to see, without getting into Luka. I'm holding out the faintest bit of hope that we get to see more of Luka after the trade deadline's passed, but it's definitely more likely he's benched until next season, or whenever Pop feels like he's "gotten over himself". Maybe when he changes his IG bio

  9. #959
    Veteran Sugus's Avatar
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    Also, I'm gonna leave this here (should it warrant its own post? Maybe...), since this thread is probably the one where we've most talked about stretch 5's and how the Spurs "NEED" one;

    The Myth Of The Stretch 5

    The Center who can both anchor a defense and stroke the three has become a hallmark of the modern NBA. Brook Lopez, Myles Turner, Serge Ibaka and countless other Bigs have been dubbed “Stretch 5s” for their perceived ability to bend a defense via the threat of their three point shot. In theory, these players “stretch” the floor by dragging their defender (often a rim protector) out of the paint and toward the perimeter to create more space w and efficient opportunities for teammates to score around the basket.

    But in reality, defenses are happy to leave Stretch 5s open and dare them to shoot.
    If you browse through the three-point shot logs for just about any Stretch 5 you’re more likely to land on a clip that shows them open than one that shows them guarded. That’s because Centers — even the sweetest-shooting ones — are left wide open on an inordinate number of their three point attempts.
    (...) the difference in how frequently these guys take contested threes compared to a small ball 5 like Gallinari is massive.

    Every other player on this table not already mentioned usually only takes threes when no one is around them. Which is to say they’re hardly stretching the defense, if at all. For example, even though Joel Embiid is having a career year from three, defenses rarely guard him beyond the arc. Fewer than 20 percent of Embiid’s threes are contested. That’s not an accident. It’s by design. A defense would rather have Embiid take an open three because it means he isn’t wrecking shop in the paint.

    In other words, most Centers take wide open threes because defenses want them to take wide open threes.
    Or as we say in Soviet Russia, “In modern NBA, defense stretches you!”
    Fascinating analysis, and it reinforces some of my previous beliefs regarding shooting big men in the league. And before KobesAchilles or someone comes jawing at me , I'd absolutely love to have a bench shooting 5, this is more on the debate of "want" vs "need" and how posters here believe a 5-out offense to be the pinnacle to be achieved, even if the defense takes a massive hit to achieve so in Poeltl's absence.

  10. #960
    Veteran KobesAchilles's Avatar
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    Post-DDR if the spurs are relying on scoring output from Jakob Poeltl instead of an offense led by a more mature Dejounte, Derrick and Keldon with Lonnie and Luka serving as the bench and auxiliary scorers they have bigger problems than a center
    Well then we have a muttha effing problem then bc Dejounte will be targeted as the main person to stop and will be who opposing teams defense focus on. Derrick hasn't shown the ability to be a consistent scorer once in his entire career. And KJ is still very young and has a lot more growth to develop before I start depending on him. I'm not even sure what to expect from Lonnie except I guess like a 10 point a game bench player which is a good career.

    The point is though we are going to need scoring from Jak bc we do have a problem going forward

  11. #961
    Veteran KobesAchilles's Avatar
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    Also, I'm gonna leave this here (should it warrant its own post? Maybe...), since this thread is probably the one where we've most talked about stretch 5's and how the Spurs "NEED" one;

    The Myth Of The Stretch 5





    Fascinating analysis, and it reinforces some of my previous beliefs regarding shooting big men in the league. And before KobesAchilles or someone comes jawing at me , I'd absolutely love to have a bench shooting 5, this is more on the debate of "want" vs "need" and how posters here believe a 5-out offense to be the pinnacle to be achieved, even if the defense takes a massive hit to achieve so in Poeltl's absence.
    I'd rather have a stretch 4 tbh than a 5. I never really like my centers out in the 3 point line. Like Tim was a center later on and he was top of the key at times, but not over at the 3 point line. But Bonner was a stretch 4 and that really freed up the offense. I mean Boris Diaw is what this team is lacking but he ain't walking through those doors any time

  12. #962
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    Well then we have a muttha effing problem then bc Dejounte will be targeted as the main person to stop and will be who opposing teams defense focus on. Derrick hasn't shown the ability to be a consistent scorer once in his entire career. And KJ is still very young and has a lot more growth to develop before I start depending on him. I'm not even sure what to expect from Lonnie except I guess like a 10 point a game bench player which is a good career.

    The point is though we are going to need scoring from Jak bc we do have a problem going forward
    15 points from Jakob next year vs the 9 hes averaged as a starter this year isn’t moving the needle if it’s as easy as “targeting DJ with no other scoring options”

    Derrick hasn’t even started his post rookie contract extension. I’m not ready to rule him out as a viable scoring option and number 2 option. Keldon will be entering year 3 and is young but he’s a stud.

    Is it so unrealistic to think Dejounte could be a 20/5/5 guy next year like derozan this year, Derrick takes the mantle of DJ’s output this year, and Keldon grows into a better third scoring option than he is this year?

    You don’t replace Derozan by just saying “Ok Jakob you need to score 15 points a game now or we will lose” it’s like a child’s understanding of basketball.

    you’re funny, I’ll give you that. Your takes are pretty bad though.

  13. #963
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    I'd rather have a stretch 4 tbh than a 5. I never really like my centers out in the 3 point line. Like Tim was a center later on and he was top of the key at times, but not over at the 3 point line. But Bonner was a stretch 4 and that really freed up the offense. I mean Boris Diaw is what this team is lacking but he ain't walking through those doors any time
    congratulations, you’ve made the case for Jakob Poeltl starting next to Luka Samanic next year

  14. #964
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    need a PF/C to compliment Jakob. Preferably one that can play along side him for bigger lineups and matchups and one that puts Jakob on the bench for smaller lineups. I assume our forwards will be Luka and Keldon.
    I think Luka could be that guy and Eubanks would be the utility PF/C (more a center) if we can't acquire a "stretch 5" that can rim run & also defend. Finding a replacement for Rudy Gay would also be necessary for the bench, but that might be easier than the vaunted back up "stretch 5."

    That's mostly on Pop for limiting him, again, to only 8 minutes. Now, he could be still dealing with that re - injured left wrist, but there was no good reason (other than that) to limit him & Vassell to just 18 total minutes.

    Leaning on Patty & Rudy - like I said Pop would - too much and not giving the young guys the necessary time & trust. *thumbs down emoji*
    Last edited by J_Paco; 03-24-2021 at 11:16 AM.

  15. #965
    Veteran KobesAchilles's Avatar
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    15 points from Jakob next year vs the 9 hes averaged as a starter this year isn’t moving the needle if it’s as easy as “targeting DJ with no other scoring options”

    Derrick hasn’t even started his post rookie contract extension. I’m not ready to rule him out as a viable scoring option and number 2 option. Keldon will be entering year 3 and is young but he’s a stud.

    Is it so unrealistic to think Dejounte could be a 20/5/5 guy next year like derozan this year, Derrick takes the mantle of DJ’s output this year, and Keldon grows into a better third scoring option than he is this year?

    You don’t replace Derozan by just saying “Ok Jakob you need to score 15 points a game now or we will lose” it’s like a child’s understanding of basketball.

    you’re funny, I’ll give you that. Your takes are pretty bad though.
    I'm not expecting Jak to replace DDR. If we were just losing him, I wouldn't be so worried. We are losing Mills, Gay, AND DDR. That is a lot of points to make up. I am expecting Murray to make a jump and replace DDR. If he doesn't then we might be screwed as well. But my point is that right now, the error for margin for the youth is bigger than it will be next year.

    For example, Lonnie had a game Monday and yet we only lost by 3 with a chance to tie it. Next year, without Gay, DDR, and Mills, if Lonnie gives us 3 points we are going to get blown out. It's not only a Jak thing. It's an all youth thing, but he is part of the equation and this is a Jak thread so I am focusing on him more here.

    I'm worried about Derrick bc of injuries. If he misses games like he always does then guess what. That margin of error gets even smaller and we will need him to score. That's what my child tells me anyway and he's where I get my ball info from

  16. #966
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    Well then we have a muttha effing problem then bc Dejounte will be targeted as the main person to stop and will be who opposing teams defense focus on. Derrick hasn't shown the ability to be a consistent scorer once in his entire career. And KJ is still very young and has a lot more growth to develop before I start depending on him. I'm not even sure what to expect from Lonnie except I guess like a 10 point a game bench player which is a good career.

    The point is though we are going to need scoring from Jak bc we do have a problem going forward
    That’s an opinion.

  17. #967
    Veteran KobesAchilles's Avatar
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    That’s an opinion.
    No bro. It's a message board. All we give is opinions

  18. #968
    Veteran KobesAchilles's Avatar
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    congratulations, you’ve made the case for Jakob Poeltl starting next to Luka Samanic next year
    So we go from him not playing at all to him starting next year. Is this Pop? Are you not playing him bc you don't want him to be part of the DDR deal? I have so many questions! Why did you start Lyles over Luka for those two games?

    Now if you are saying that we should start Luka, I'm all in on that. He SHOULD be playing and it's ridiculous that he isn't. But if you're saying Pop is going to start him next year... well...

  19. #969
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    Totally agree with you only reason that Luka should not have gotten playing time is if we are trying to move both Lyles and Rudy. So if they are gone then I would understand but if they still here then I call Bull . No way should Luka not be getting some burn he deserves it he showed that by his play in G League and also in the few games Pop played him in.

  20. #970
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    Also, I'm gonna leave this here (should it warrant its own post? Maybe...), since this thread is probably the one where we've most talked about stretch 5's and how the Spurs "NEED" one;

    The Myth Of The Stretch 5





    Fascinating analysis, and it reinforces some of my previous beliefs regarding shooting big men in the league. And before KobesAchilles or someone comes jawing at me , I'd absolutely love to have a bench shooting 5, this is more on the debate of "want" vs "need" and how posters here believe a 5-out offense to be the pinnacle to be achieved, even if the defense takes a massive hit to achieve so in Poeltl's absence.

    makes sense if the other 4 players are shooters too, but if you have DeRozan, Keldon and Murray out there the 3-Point shooting has to come from somewhere

  21. #971
    Veteran Sugus's Avatar
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    makes sense if the other 4 players are shooters too, but if you have DeRozan, Keldon and Murray out there the 3-Point shooting has to come from somewhere
    Dude, we keep having the exact same discussion. Yes, the 3pt shooting has to come from somewhere - where does that equal out to that place being the starting C? My hope is that DeRozan is off the team after this season, and it's looking like a quite likely scenario (even more so if rumors are to be believed); again, that leaves a big, glaring hole at the SF-PF starting position, perfectly able to be filled by a high-volume shooting wing or PF. It's exactly why I'm saying there's a difference between saying the Spurs could want or have use for a shooting C in their rotation, which I agree with, and saying the Spurs need a shooting C to be in their starting lineup, which I disagree with, especially as it renders Jakob a bench player and greatly diminishes his impact.

    That article further adds on how even having a shooting C doesn't necessarily improve the spacing of a given unit, unless they're absolutely elite at it (I've said this before, these are the kinds of talents you have to look for in the top-2 of a draft... Not a roleplayer), and can have a negative effect if the center isn't good defensively. I also find fascinating the talk about how a center camping out on the high perimeter for a catch-and-shoot actually hinders the team, because the guards and wings can't access that spot and playmake from the top or sides of the 3pt line, limiting their options. So it's absolutely not as black-and-white as your points usually imply.

  22. #972
    Veteran RC_Drunkford's Avatar
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    I‘m talking about this season. Watch the last 2 games

  23. #973
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    Translate those skills into dunks, Poeltl.

  24. #974
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    Hmm are we going to see more 14+ pt games from Poeltl??

  25. #975
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    Ma Touches 2.0???

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