Grizzlies: **Debunking the “Tim Duncan had a flawless career” narrative once and for all**

[LkrFan]

[QUOTE=Mitch;10361943]Mi hombre Ricardo Vincente Carlos Hernandez II ( LkrFan) telling it like it is[/QUOTE]

[LkrFan]

....except when he "finished himself" in the hotel room

[LkrFan]

Ewing choked against Olaujuwon in '94 but that gets overshadowed by Starks bad game 6. Ewing also choked in '95 against the Pacers in game 7. The window to win for a lot of guys is very small so you have to take advantage when there is a small opening like Dirk did in '11. Ewing failed to do that in '94 and '95. He also didn't show mental discipline in '97 when he ran off the bench during the Heat brawl which cost his team the series.

Speaking of choking

[lefty]

Speaking of choking

ol how did Duncan choke in that sequence?

[LkrFan]

ol how did Duncan choke in that sequence?

The entire Spurs team choked. Jim was the Alpha

[lefty]

Jim was the Alpha

Unlike Kobe :-)

[dbreiden83080]

Well the next best thing in NY was ... John Starks

Can’t blame Ewing tbh, that’s why context matters when we’re discussing les

Loved Starks as a player.. All heart. But hot and cold.. I agree Pat did NOT have a lot of help..

[dbreiden83080]

Look up the Ewing effect. That term came into play and gained huge traction because of their 99 playoff run.

Ewing’s absence unleashed Houston and sprewell.

Ewing could barely move by 99.. He was taking ice baths instead of practicing.

[Dirks_Finale]

That 1999 series was the most evenly matched series between the Shaq/Kobe Lakers and the Duncan Spurs. David was still playing at an all star level then, and Tim was obviously a superstar. Shaq was a superstar and Kobe was an ascending all star. Both teams had solid role players, but nothing amazing...and y'all got on.

2001 was hilariously one-sided. That Lakers team was one of the greatest of all time, and Shaq and Kobe were both top five players that year and played even better in the playoffs. The Spurs were missing DA and David had nothing left in the tank after a very physical first two rounds. Didn't help that the Spurs were starting 80-year-old Terry Porter and Danny ing Ferry

2002 was even more of a mismatch. Shaq and Kobe vs Tim and no other all stars. Those games were only close because of Tim's greatness. But Phil knew the deal. Let Tim beat up on Horry in the first three quarters, then switch Shaq on him and throw doubles when he puts the ball on the floor in the fourth quarter. It was genius, and it worked to perfection.

We all know what happened in 2003...

2004 was once again Tim and no other all stars, but this time going against 4 future hall of famers and prime Shaq/Kobe. Somehow, thanks to Tim's greatness, the Spurs were one shot away from a 3-2 lead and a potential series win. I'll never forget watching Devin Brown turn into our go-to perimeter score in game six lolol.

That was the most cruel loss I have ever seen Pop was usually pretty stoic, but I saw him celebrating after Tim hit that impossibe shot. Damn that Fish shot must have hurt

[dbreiden83080]

That was the most cruel loss I have ever seen Pop was usually pretty stoic, but I saw him celebrating after Tim hit that impossibe shot. Damn that Fish shot must have hurt

I have tried to block that loss out of my mind forever in the memories of that Spurs era... What a cluster .. But TBH 2006 was just as bad.. Best Spurs team to never win a championship..

[lefty]

Loved Starks as a player.. All heart. But hot and cold...

Games 6 and 7 vs Houston are a perfect example of his hot and cold streaks

I agree, more talented players didn't have his heart
But again, perhaps John was like that because he had to earn a spot in the NBA so he always played with a chip on his shoulder

[lefty]

That was the most cruel loss I have ever seen Pop was usually pretty stoic, but I saw him celebrating after Tim hit that impossibe shot. Damn that Fish shot must have hurt

I missed that game and saw the final score on a ticker

Then I watched highlights later that night and my reaction was THATS HOW WE LOST ARE YOU ING KIDDING ME

[dbreiden83080]

Games 6 and 7 vs Houston are a perfect example of his hot and cold streaks

I agree, more talented players didn't have his heart
But again, perhaps John was like that because he had to earn a spot in the NBA so he always played with a chip on his shoulder

That is exactly right. Undrafted out of college. After a brief stint with the Warriors as a FA he was out of the league. He was bagging groceries and playing in the CBA..

He made the Knicks after a try out...

[lefty]

That is exactly right. Undrafted out of college. After a brief stint with the Warriors as a FA he was out of the league. He was bagging groceries and playing in the CBA..

He made the Knicks after a try out...

CROFL Jordan's opposition at the sg spot

[dbreiden83080]

CROFL Jordan's opposition at the sg spot

And could play good D..

Would love to see Harden check Mike.. What would Mike go for? 120 on 70%?

[lefty]

And could play good D..

Would love to see Harden check Mike.. What would Mike go for? 120 on 70%?

Stark was an overrated defender, a lot of average SG's dropped dimes on his ass

Stark, Majerle, Ehlo etc were propped up by ESPN and NBC as great defenders to make Jordan look better than he really was

[dbreiden83080]

Stark was an overrated defender, a lot of average SG's dropped dimes on his ass

Stark, Majerle, Ehlo etc were propped up by ESPN and NBC as great defenders to make Jordan look better than he really was

Made an all D team in 1993.. Not a great defender because of lack of size, but like we discussed he made up for a lot with grit, and effort. Starks would NOT quit.. Something in this era we have very little of.. You don't have to earn it. The refs just send you to the line.. The game is so wide open today man with the refs blowing the whistle to protect stars at a record level. Jordan would shoot 16 FT's a game easy..

[Dirks_Finale]

I have tried to block that loss out of my mind forever in the memories of that Spurs era... What a cluster .. But TBH 2006 was just as bad.. Best Spurs team to never win a championship..

2006 was pretty tough to swallow for SA fans, but I think that's just because of the cir stances, GM7, at home, down 3-1 on verge of coming back. The ending of that 04 game was like some sh1t scripted out of hollywood.

I missed that game and saw the final score on a ticker

Then I watched highlights later that night and my reaction was THATS HOW WE LOST ARE YOU ING KIDDING ME

So you may have missed Shaq's famous quote afterwards..."One lucky shot deserves another" He looked so damn deflated after Tim sunk that leaner...there's no way they come back if they lose that game and go down 3-2. After Fish hit that shot he looked about as surprised as OJ Simpsons attorneys when the verdict came back.

[Dirks_Finale]

Made an all D team in 1993.. Not a great defender because of lack of size, but like we discussed he made up for a lot with grit, and effort. Starks would NOT quit.. Something in this era we have very little of.. You don't have to earn it. The refs just send you to the line.. The game is so wide open today man with the refs blowing the whistle to protect stars at a record level. Jordan would shoot 16 FT's a game easy..

34% from distance back then. Back when they could play physical ball. He's probably a 20ppg scorer and shooting 40% from distance in this era of inflated stats.

[dbreiden83080]

34% from distance back then. Back when they could play physical ball. He's probably a 20ppg scorer and shooting 40% from distance in this era of inflated stats.

Starks would probably play on 4 or 5 teams today, with so much player movement.. But contenders would be tripping themselves to sign him. A tough as nails compe or that can defend, and shoot the 3.. He also could hit the mid-range jumper especially when hot..

[daslicer]

2006 was pretty tough to swallow for SA fans, but I think that's just because of the cir stances, GM7, at home, down 3-1 on verge of coming back. The ending of that 04 game was like some sh1t scripted out of hollywood.



So you may have missed Shaq's famous quote afterwards..."One lucky shot deserves another" He looked so damn deflated after Tim sunk that leaner...there's no way they come back if they lose that game and go down 3-2. After Fish hit that shot he looked about as surprised as OJ Simpsons attorneys when the verdict came back.

I have always hated Shaq. Shaq was lucky Fisher hit that bs shot or he would have been in therapy for many years. That shot Duncan hit on him was even better than Jordan's Ehlo shot and would have been replayed over and over again for years. Shaq's pride would not have been able to handle it and he knows it that's why he was so relieved when Fisher's bs shot went in.

[lefty]

34% from distance back then. Back when they could play physical ball. He's probably a 20ppg scorer and shooting 40% from distance in this era of inflated stats.

“Physical” lol
Those myths smh

[lefty]

Made an all D team in 1993.. Not a great defender because of lack of size, but like we discussed he made up for a lot with grit, and effort. Starks would NOT quit.. Something in this era we have very little of.. You don't have to earn it. The refs just send you to the line.. The game is so wide open today man with the refs blowing the whistle to protect stars at a record level. Jordan would shoot 16 FT's a game easy..

Jordan already got food stamps , he is to this day the most ref protected player in the history of the NBA

And all D team in the 90s is not a good argument, the 90s defense is overrated by nostalgic old heads, it was ing

[dbreiden83080]

Jordan already got food stamps , he is to this day the most ref protected player in the history of the NBA

And all D team in the 90s is not a good argument, the 90s defense is overrated by nostalgic old heads, it was ing

If Harden had to play a game under 90s rules against the 1993 New York Knicks how do you think he would do? I think he would miss about 25 shots, and get ejected from the game for complaining to the refs that he wants a foul every time he takes a three point shot.

Worse have him play one of the early Michael Jordan Chicago Bulls le teams. Have Scottie Pippen and Jordan chasing him around 40 minutes pushing him off his spots, hand checking him. Yeah I’m sure he would dominate LOL.

[daslicer]

Jordan already got food stamps , he is to this day the most ref protected player in the history of the NBA

And all D team in the 90s is not a good argument, the 90s defense is overrated by nostalgic old heads, it was ing

I'm in my late 30's so I would say you are older than me. I'm not nostalgic for the dirty play I want to go back to the early to mid '00s when the Spurs could have juggernaut defense and were allowed to handcheck. Handchecking makes a huge difference when it comes to guarding perimeter players. Without it they are nearly impossible to guard.