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  1. #1
    The Good Doctor Rummpd's Avatar
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    Imagine having two supposed aging but potentially trade-able stars and a HOF coach and this motley poorly assembled lot of players is what going forward with? Got a decent draft choice and a few younger erratic pieces to build on but any one believing this FO has stepped up and trying to really improve over next few years is being deceived. Spurs FO and coach just wants to feel being even in contention to make playoffs is good enough. Should have blown it up and gone with youth and got draft choices ala OKC as teams like Suns NO and Portland making savvy moves while SAS FO is a joke. That is the bottom line - welcome to the 34 and 38 2020-21 nothing to write home about Spurs.

  2. #2
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    Nah they're fine.

  3. #3
    The Good Doctor Rummpd's Avatar
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    Nah they're fine.
    In what way - Murray and White erratic and two stars either a step slow or very inconsistent in bringing it. Poetl is not the answer and Pop is disengaged at best. Teams a joke with terrible execution post Duncan

  4. #4
    half man half amazing
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    Can you believe that we are now going on 3 seasons of demar derozan as the main guy?

  5. #5
    Veteran Sugus's Avatar
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    Aren't we "going with youth" now? Take a look at the whole roster, not the top 2 players. And what's Phoenix's strategy worked out for? Zero playoff appearances so far, zero rings. They've been tanking for how many years now? Same for OKC... Multiple MVP caliber players, no rings to show for it. Now they're rebuilding, again... Sure, they have a lot of picks, let's see what comes out of that. Portland? They're a middling team, have been one forever, now will be paying like 40M/year to Dame and probably won't get closer to a chip than they did playing against the Warriors... Also 0 chips, if that wasn't obvious as a thematic so far.

    Maybe analyze the states of every team in context, instead of just looking in a vacuum without forward nor backwards analysis and just going "but the grass is SO GREEN on the other side!!!".

  6. #6
    half man half amazing
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    Aren't we "going with youth" now? Take a look at the whole roster, not the top 2 players. And what's Phoenix's strategy worked out for? Zero playoff appearances so far, zero rings. They've been tanking for how many years now? Same for OKC... Multiple MVP caliber players, no rings to show for it. Now they're rebuilding, again... Sure, they have a lot of picks, let's see what comes out of that. Portland? They're a middling team, have been one forever, now will be paying like 40M/year to Dame and probably won't get closer to a chip than they did playing against the Warriors... Also 0 chips, if that wasn't obvious as a thematic so far.

    Maybe analyze the states of every team in context, instead of just looking in a vacuum without forward nor backwards analysis and just going "but the grass is SO GREEN on the other side!!!".
    LMA, DDR, Mills, and Gay. That's 4 vets that the spurs have valued more than any other team in the league. 4 vets that failed to make the playoffs last year and will not make the playoffs this year. If you're spending that much on vets that are producing so poorly, you're doing a terrible job.

    Also, it's pointless to look at this on a one year basis. The true mismanagement occurred prior to the beginning of last season. They should have traded DDR at that point but vastly overestimated how good their roster was going to perform and underestimated how much better the rest of the conference was. Overall, just incompetence

  7. #7
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    In what way - Murray and White erratic and two stars either a step slow or very inconsistent in bringing it. Poetl is not the answer and Pop is disengaged at best. Teams a joke with terrible execution post Duncan
    Saying things like, "not the answer" is meaningless. The team wasn't going to find a le contender out of nowhere. They've been pulling rabbits out of their hats for two decades. Trying to judge them because they haven't managed to snag a third franchise player with the heart of the cards doesn't make sense.

    They have a stable of young players who they like and are developing and have all of their picks and loads of cap space. That's a perfectly fine position to be in three years out from losing a cornerstone.

  8. #8
    Veteran Sugus's Avatar
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    LMA, DDR, Mills, and Gay. That's 4 vets that the spurs have valued more than any other team in the league. 4 vets that failed to make the playoffs last year and will not make the playoffs this year. If you're spending that much on vets that are producing so poorly, you're doing a terrible job.

    Also, it's pointless to look at this on a one year basis. The true mismanagement occurred prior to the beginning of last season. They should have traded DDR at that point but vastly overestimated how good their roster was going to perform and underestimated how much better the rest of the conference was. Overall, just incompetence
    I'm not going to rehash every argument that went down during the DeRozan trade "age" - it's all been written down. I also wished they would've gone a different route, but they didn't. That doesn't mean they're incompetent (not to mention the GM isn't the same as it was then), nor that "any one believing this FO has stepped up and trying to really improve over next few years is being deceived", to quote OP directly. People are just so impatient when it comes to rebuilding... You can't jettison every vet you have the moment it starts to look like you're not making the playoffs, nor should you, ever. Time and time again, we've seen the failures of teams filled with young talent that have no vets to teach them, or over-rely on tanking without plans to get out of that mindset... People complain about the Spurs' current state, but would you rather be Sacramento right now? No you wouldn't.

    Next question - would you have traded LMA for just a second round pick? I wouldn't have. As far as I know, no reports have come out on possible trades that the Spurs FO weighted or denied; people complain that they're still here while ignoring that the return for them can absolutely be worse than their staying in SA and mentoring the young players. Actually, I don't think you value vet mentorship at all, nor does the OP - is that not a factor whatsoever? What player came into the league and didn't need anyone taking them under their wing to be great? Even Timmy had the Admiral to look up to... Lastly, this is the "purgatory" situation all over again - the Spurs are paying their vets heftily, for this season only. I understand criticizing their previous moves (and understand people on this forum will never grow tired of doing so), but to do that right now? They're all expiring... Literally won't be a problem a year from now. Might not even be a problem after the trade deadline, depending on which vet we're talking about.

    Overall, though, I agree - it's worthless to look at this on a one year basis. I look at it on a multi-year basis - the Spurs have rang more than any of these supposedly better teams, sooner than them, and might ring again sooner than them as well. Certainly seems worth a few years of mediocrity and development to me, and not a lot of incompetence. Why don't we talk about OKC's incompetence, or the Suns', or Portland's or whomever...? Oh yeah, because thrashing their FOs here is no fun.

  9. #9
    Spurs forever DeRozan m8's Avatar
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    them and that nephew

  10. #10
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    It's your fault for buying into the internet rumors about pre-draft trades. Wasn't going to happen and y'all are idiots. Trades will emerge once the season starts and teams see where they are.

    The team only has about six young players with great potential to develop.

  11. #11
    Every game is game 1 Seventyniner's Avatar
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    Ugh. I like to think I have a long fuse, but OP is going on ignore. There is only so much incessant ing and whining I can take.

    ...and yet I still read this board so that can't be that true, can it?

  12. #12
    #21 timtonymanu's Avatar
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    People shouldn’t take OP seriously tbh.

  13. #13
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    Got to feature LMA and DDR if you want to trade them.

  14. #14
    The Good Doctor Rummpd's Avatar
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    Saying things like, "not the answer" is meaningless. The team wasn't going to find a le contender out of nowhere. They've been pulling rabbits out of their hats for two decades. Trying to judge them because they haven't managed to snag a third franchise player with the heart of the cards doesn't make sense.

    They have a stable of young players who they like and are developing and have all of their picks and loads of cap space. That's a perfectly fine position to be in three years out from losing a cornerstone.


    The over-estimation of the poorly matched and overall constructed talent on this team is unreal. Spurs have a few erratic promising young players that in at least two cases (Murray and White) have not reached potential (either due to injuries, coaching or whatever); and then the majority that are just average at best NBA players, and two aging stars that don't match each other and neither shows leadership or stretches the floor. They got a good draft pick but likely will be buried on the bench. FO has been a joke for at least three years. Several teams in West are on the move up while the Spurs show no sign of joining them. Hope I am wrong, but with this coach much more likely to try to placate veterans then let the few potential better than average NBA players (that are young) develop - it is not likely I am.
    Last edited by Rummpd; 12-02-2020 at 03:49 AM.

  15. #15
    Believe.
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    Got to feature LMA and DDR if you want to trade them.
    You actually don't. Both of those guys have a long enough history in this league for teams to know who they are. There is not one team in the league who didn't like them and will see them play and then decide to trade for them, or one team who wants to trade for them but doesn't see them play so won't trade for them. I don't know where people get this line of thinking from.

  16. #16
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    Aren't we "going with youth" now? Take a look at the whole roster, not the top 2 players. And what's Phoenix's strategy worked out for? Zero playoff appearances so far, zero rings. They've been tanking for how many years now? Same for OKC... Multiple MVP caliber players, no rings to show for it. Now they're rebuilding, again... Sure, they have a lot of picks, let's see what comes out of that. Portland? They're a middling team, have been one forever, now will be paying like 40M/year to Dame and probably won't get closer to a chip than they did playing against the Warriors... Also 0 chips, if that wasn't obvious as a thematic so far.

    Maybe analyze the states of every team in context, instead of just looking in a vacuum without forward nor backwards analysis and just going "but the grass is SO GREEN on the other side!!!".
    Just look at the Lakers. They tried the lottery thing for years and never sniffed the playoffs until the best player in the game brought the 2nd best along with him and they got all the leg riders to pile in. They should get a tour bus and just have instant ring tours from city to city.

  17. #17
    The Good Doctor Rummpd's Avatar
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    You actually don't. Both of those guys have a long enough history in this league for teams to know who they are. There is not one team in the league who didn't like them and will see them play and then decide to trade for them, or one team who wants to trade for them but doesn't see them play so won't trade for them. I don't know where people get this line of thinking from.
    Truth

  18. #18
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    You actually don't. Both of those guys have a long enough history in this league for teams to know who they are. There is not one team in the league who didn't like them and will see them play and then decide to trade for them, or one team who wants to trade for them but doesn't see them play so won't trade for them. I don't know where people get this line of thinking from.
    The problem is that PATFO tends to overvalue their players. The facts that they asked for too much from teams inquiring about LA and DeRozan is that they never intended on trading them unless a team made them an offer they couldn't say no to.

  19. #19
    Veteran John B's Avatar
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    I think they shopped Aldridge and Demar, but couldn't get the best value. The athletic core played well in the bubble, and it's worth seeing what they can do minus the defensive liability of Bryn and Beli. And in contract year, Demar and Aldridge have something to show for to get their last chance of getting paid. They will surprise people this year imo

  20. #20
    Veteran Sugus's Avatar
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    Just look at the Lakers. They tried the lottery thing for years and never sniffed the playoffs until the best player in the game brought the 2nd best along with him and they got all the leg riders to pile in. They should get a tour bus and just have instant ring tours from city to city.
    Exactly, tbh. Pro-tanking fans are so quick to mention how this or that team just HAS to blow it up, like there's some hurry to do so instead of trying to let things run their natural course - all whilst ignoring the absolute mul ude of times teams have tanked consistently, only to come up empty-handed. If the Lakers weren't in LA, they'd be looking at a near 10 year playoff drought right now, but sure, tanking is The Way for every team that's slightly below championship level. Just blow it up and draft an MVP or two! Ain't that hard...

  21. #21
    Veteran Sugus's Avatar
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    I think they shopped Aldridge and Demar, but couldn't get the best value. The athletic core played well in the bubble, and it's worth seeing what they can do minus the defensive liability of Bryn and Beli. And in contract year, Demar and Aldridge have something to show for to get their last chance of getting paid. They will surprise people this year imo
    I'm unusually excited for the season, tbh. We played a great brand of basketball in the bubble, got rid of defensive liabilities and replaced them with huge pluses on D, and modernized the team further. Even if we end up losing a bunch of games, the growing pains will be great and refreshing to see, instead of watching known-quan y vets pound the air out of the ball. Just hope DeMar doesn't go full Kobe every single 4th quarter close game... Gotta let the young guys get their experience in clutch situations as well.

  22. #22
    Veteran KobesAchilles's Avatar
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    I mean I'm happy we got rid of Bryn and Marco. Not signing any more old useless players is a major plus (talking about you Carroll) and not re-signing DDR even after his strong showing in the bubble was a plus too. I like our draft as well. The FO did it's part. This is not going to be a quick rebuild. It's going to take luck and time. Tanking is not clearly the answer and neither is this team. We need to find a good player in the draft that can carry us in order to contend again, but also surround them with the right vets. It's hard man.

    But this season should be a fun one. Even if we lose a lot we will be young, fast, lots of ball movement, and lots of 3s and fast breaks. There are going to be a lot of high scoring games. And I'm excited for it. We are finally going to see our youth come into fruition.

  23. #23
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    Just look at the Lakers. They tried the lottery thing for years and never sniffed the playoffs until the best player in the game brought the 2nd best along with him and they got all the leg riders to pile in. They should get a tour bus and just have instant ring tours from city to city.
    LA is a terrible team to use as a cautionary tale against tanking. The just flat suck at player development. Randle, Ingram, and DLo have all made great strides since leaving, and both DLo and Ingram each have an ASG selection on their resume. There are plenty of reasons not to tank, but the LAL incompetence at PD isn’t one of them.

  24. #24
    Veteran Sugus's Avatar
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    LA is a terrible team to use as a cautionary tale against tanking. The just flat suck at player development. Randle, Ingram, and DLo have all made great strides since leaving, and both DLo and Ingram each have an ASG selection on their resume. There are plenty of reasons not to tank, but the LAL incompetence at PD isn’t one of them.
    I mean, that's not exactly not a reason to tank, either - I'd say in fact that it's a perfectly fine argument against tanking, as it is. Because it's not just about sucking so bad that you get the top pick, it's also about giving said pick a proper development, coaching, nurturing, and a fundamentally good situation to blossom in (which is FAR too often ignored when talking about tanking; the toll that it takes on the young players being forced or told to throw games, and the losing culture that develops as a result and sticks with them). There just aren't any Timmy's that are ready-to-go from day 1 and can give an organization the benefit of not having a good coaching or PD staff, and it's no wonder that all the players drafted by the Lakers got better once they left that ty situation.

    Ironically, teams like Phoenix or Sacramento end up losing a lot of the young talent that they get from tanking to other teams, because they either can't draft the good prospects, can't develop them when they do draft well, or can't afford to pay them after they've been developed, since the rest of the team isn't in a state of contention (or worse, like the Fox situation on the Kings, being forced to pay a Max contract to a player that has yet to see the playoffs, because he's too good to let enter FA). All overlooked things when people argue pro-tank.

  25. #25
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    I mean, that's not exactly not a reason to tank, either - I'd say in fact that it's a perfectly fine argument against tanking, as it is. Because it's not just about sucking so bad that you get the top pick, it's also about giving said pick a proper development, coaching, nurturing, and a fundamentally good situation to blossom in (which is FAR too often ignored when talking about tanking; the toll that it takes on the young players being forced or told to throw games, and the losing culture that develops as a result and sticks with them). There just aren't any Timmy's that are ready-to-go from day 1 and can give an organization the benefit of not having a good coaching or PD staff, and it's no wonder that all the players drafted by the Lakers got better once they left that ty situation.

    Ironically, teams like Phoenix or Sacramento end up losing a lot of the young talent that they get from tanking to other teams, because they either can't draft the good prospects, can't develop them when they do draft well, or can't afford to pay them after they've been developed, since the rest of the team isn't in a state of contention (or worse, like the Fox situation on the Kings, being forced to pay a Max contract to a player that has yet to see the playoffs, because he's too good to let enter FA). All overlooked things when people argue pro-tank.
    You novice, that's not how tanking works. No one would ever tell players to intentionally lose, it's more of an organizational direction, like the Thunder who've set themselves up to do so for a while.

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