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  1. #26
    44 / 50 Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    Peyton had 3 touchdowns and 7 interceptions in the 4 playoff games he played in 2006. His defense won that Super Bowl. How was he not a game manager?
    Against....... Rex Grossman?

    Mitch Trubisky is Steve Young/Joe Montana compared to in' Grossman. Seriously.

  2. #27
    4-25-20 Will Hunting's Avatar
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    Against....... Rex Grossman?

    Mitch Trubisky is Steve Young/Joe Montana compared to in' Grossman. Seriously.
    You can credit his defense or you can credit Rex Grossman being a historically ty QB, either way the credit isn’t Peyton’s.

  3. #28
    44 / 50 Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    You can credit his defense or you can credit Rex Grossman being a historically ty QB, either way the credit isn’t Peyton’s.
    I don't credit the defense for beating a 3rd string caliber QB at all... Peyton was better than Brady in '06, TD/INT ratio is useless, Peyton won H2H in the AFCCG in a shootout and won the Super Bowl... period.

    Not the same as '15 when the game was a slugfast and not a shootout and essentially came down to Ware and Miller kicking Brady's ass and a missed XP and 2 point conversion bailing out TOSB Peyton Manning's retired ass.

  4. #29
    4-25-20 Will Hunting's Avatar
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    I don't credit the defense for beating a 3rd string caliber QB at all... Peyton was better than Brady in '06, TD/INT ratio is useless, Peyton won H2H in the AFCCG in a shootout and won the Super Bowl... period.

    Not the same as '15 when the game was a slugfast and not a shootout and essentially came down to Ware and Miller kicking Brady's ass and a missed XP and 2 point conversion bailing out TOSB Peyton Manning's retired ass.
    Of course your cherry picking what stats are and arent useless, its what Manning stans do.

    Here is their playoff passer rating in each of their super bowl seasons ranked best to wors, with Dilfer included as the game manager cutoff

    Manning being tier than Dilfer for both of his Super Bowls.

    2004 Tom Brady - 109.4
    2014 Tom Brady - 100.3
    2016 Tom Brady - 97.7
    2018 Tom Brady - 85.8
    2003 Tom Brady - 84.5
    2000 Trent Dilfer - 83.7
    2001 Tom Brady - 77.3
    2015 Peyton Manning - 75.4
    2006 Peyton Manning - 70.5

  5. #30
    Veteran Arcadian's Avatar
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    You can't even compare coaches to players in terms of importance. Players are always more important and always deserve more credit, because they are actually taking the field/court and directly affecting the outcome of the game.

  6. #31
    Believe. i'm_still_beta's Avatar
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    You can't even compare coaches to players in terms of importance. Players are always more important and always deserve more credit, because they are actually taking the field/court and directly affecting the outcome of the game.
    Who's more important for Patriots: Edelman or Belichik? If you substract either one from the team whose loss will be more noticeable?

  7. #32
    44 / 50 Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    Who's more important for Patriots: Edelman or Belichik? If you substract either one from the team whose loss will be more noticeable?
    As much as I hate Belicheat, Edelman could have replaced by any old white slot guy his size, like the Bucs' scotty miller right now

  8. #33
    Veteran Arcadian's Avatar
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    Who's more important for Patriots: Edelman or Belichik? If you substract either one from the team whose loss will be more noticeable?
    Edelman is a smaller role and should be compared to a coach with a smaller role. Edelman is more important than the WR coach, whoever that is.

  9. #34
    Believe. i'm_still_beta's Avatar
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    Edelman is a smaller role and should be compared to a coach with a smaller role. Edelman is more important than the WR coach, whoever that is.
    I can be wrong, but I think american football is the only sport where head coach is the most important role on the team. He can influence all 3 phases of the game: offense, defense, special teams. Qb is the only rival, but HC is still more important

  10. #35
    Considering what each had to work with, easily Belichick. Not only Brady had much more talent around him, he also got the far easier schedule. Have the Bucs and the Patriots switch schdules and conferences and the Patriots make the playoffs while the Bucs don't. The worst thing is that, given a couple of favourable matchups (like facing the NFC East winner in the first round and Green Bay in the second) the Bucs could make it all the way to the NFC championship game or even the Super Bowl. And everybody will be claiming Brady > Belichick when that wasn't the case at all this season.
    Again, solid takes but Tom's finish, granted vs out of it Detroit is impressive.
    Looks like he is now on target with receivers on deep balls both sides and middle. Thus opening up the run and vice versa.
    Malcontent ABrown even contributing.
    Like you pointed out with their weak bracket TV Tom could easily win an opening round game and who knows what might Tuck after that.

    If Bellicheat plays Cam again tonight and not Stidwell I'm giving it to Tom.

  11. #36
    Believe. i'm_still_beta's Avatar
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    40 tds for Thomas ... in Arians' vertical offense. Completely different offense compared to NE btw. Not bad for system qb

  12. #37
    4-25-20 Will Hunting's Avatar
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    Bump

    All the hot takes ITT about Belichick reaching 7-9 ecstasy being more impressive than Brady making the playoffs are aging like warm milk

  13. #38
    coffee's for closers FrostKing's Avatar
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    Bills vs Brady AFC circle jerk

    2021 return of the Bill, Kyle and Sean
    Last edited by FrostKing; 01-18-2021 at 08:36 AM.

  14. #39
    More Chug, Less Glug Monostradamus's Avatar
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    Belichick took a 2-14 level roster and coached them up to 7-9. Granted, hes the main reason the roster was so terrible (plus the most covid opt outs who were really important players), but he did coach them up significantly.

    Brady getting to the NFC Championship game means his move to Tampa wasnt a failure, but now well see if he really wins over Belichick.

  15. #40
    coffee's for closers FrostKing's Avatar
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    For the record. Brady vs Montana

    Also Bill vs Bill

    On record I said I rather have Bill Belichick Defense + Montana

  16. #41
    4-25-20 Will Hunting's Avatar
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    On record I said I rather have Bill Belichick Defense + Montana
    That’s because you were born with your umbilical cord wrapped around your neck.

  17. #42
    coffee's for closers FrostKing's Avatar
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    That’s because you were born with your umbilical cord wrapped around your neck.
    Joe more accurate but also better receivers. Defense even. Coach? I'll let you have your piece. Who is 49ers Vinatieri

  18. #43
    4-25-20 Will Hunting's Avatar
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    Joe more accurate but also better receivers. Defense even. Coach? I'll let you have your piece. Who is 49ers Vinatieri
    Brady made 6 Super Bowls and won 3 of them without Vinatieri.

    Montana is the 2nd best QB of all time imo, Brady’s resume is just on its own level. In 19 seasons where he was a starter (excluding the season where he was injured the whole year), he’s made 9 Super Bowls (potentially 10) and 14 conference championship games. No QB is going to come close to that ever again.

    Just look at this year, at 43 years old he threw for 4600 yards and 40 touchdowns in a brand new offense he’d never played before. No other QB has even made it that long.

  19. #44
    coffee's for closers FrostKing's Avatar
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    Brady made 6 Super Bowls and won 3 of them without Vinatieri.

    Montana is the 2nd best QB of all time imo, Bradys resume is just on its own level. In 19 seasons where he was a starter (excluding the season where he was injured the whole year), hes made 9 Super Bowls (potentially 10) and 14 conference championship games. No QB is going to come close to that ever again.

    Just look at this year, at 43 years old he threw for 4600 yards and 40 touchdowns in a brand new offense hed never played before. No other QB has even made it that long.
    Yes you have posted wall of accomlodments. Tom has the numbers. Joe has the moments.

    I am okay with Brady GOAT argument by this generation. Tom has earned it.

    Bill's Defense and Joe sounds 🔥

  20. #45
    Because I choose to. Neo.'s Avatar
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    joe also benefitted massively from an offensive scheme that defenses generally didn't have the personnel to match up with. the WCO was ahead of its time. it's similar to as wilt and bill playing in a league where everyone else was 6 inches and 50 lbs behind them and had no clue how to guard them

    joe was fantastic, and would still be fantastic, but idk if he has near the same level of success if you just swap him and Tom. aside from being more mobile, there is nothing else he does flat out better than Tom.

  21. #46
    Believe. i'm_still_beta's Avatar
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    joe also benefitted massively from an offensive scheme that defenses generally didn't have the personnel to match up with. the WCO was ahead of its time. it's similar to as wilt and bill playing in a league where everyone else was 6 inches and 50 lbs behind them and had no clue how to guard them

    joe was fantastic, and would still be fantastic, but idk if he has near the same level of success if you just swap him and Tom. aside from being more mobile, there is nothing else he does flat out better than Tom.
    Also no salary cap

  22. #47
    Believe. i'm_still_beta's Avatar
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    Yes you have posted wall of accomlodments. Tom has the numbers. Joe has the moments.

    I am okay with Brady GOAT argument by this generation. Tom has earned it.

    Bill's Defense and Joe sounds 
    Argument for Brady is that he was successful in both vertical and west coast offenses, while Montana was successful only in wco

  23. #48
    coffee's for closers FrostKing's Avatar
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    Argument for Brady is that he was successful in both vertical and west coast offenses, while Montana was successful only in wco
    I can buy that with no historic OC. Also Tom being passenger early on.

    For the record Tom's portfolio is better. Comebacks were as good. I tip my hat. Closest to the GOATS that any hockey, basketball, and baseball player got

  24. #49
    Believe. i'm_still_beta's Avatar
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    Yes you have posted wall of accomlodments. Tom has the numbers. Joe has the moments.

    I am okay with Brady GOAT argument by this generation. Tom has earned it.

    Bill's Defense and Joe sounds 
    And iirc, Walsh wanted to trade Montana for Elway or Marino, benched Joe in PO. Bellichick never treated Brady that way (I'm not sure if it's true that Bill wanted to keep Garoppolo. Read somewhere that Lynch wanted to trade for Brady but Bill laughed at him)

    4-4 with 3 smvps and no interceptions is good, but NFC Championships were real Super Bowls in 80's and Joe wasn't magical there. Also dropped int against Bengals https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJFOBI1cZaM

    I have no problems if someone thinks that Montana better than Tom. Brady lacks mobility and it's weakness in his game, and Joe was mobile. Also life is somewhat easier for qbs now. But while Joe had god-level accuracy on short throws his arm strength was lacking. Ability to operate in different types of offenses makes Brady better for me personally

  25. #50
    Believe. i'm_still_beta's Avatar
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    I can buy that with no historic OC. Also Tom being passenger early on.

    For the record Tom's portfolio is better. Comebacks were as good. I tip my hat. Closest to the GOATS that any hockey, basketball, and baseball player got
    Same. I was surprised how mobile and accurate Joe was. Was too young to watch him live
    Last edited by i'm_still_beta; 01-18-2021 at 11:34 AM.

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