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  1. #1
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Data from 18 OECD countries, including the UK and the US, over the last five decades. The Economic Consequences of Major Tax Cuts for the Rich, by David Hope and Julian Limberg, shows that the last 50 years were a period of falling taxes on the rich in the advanced economies. Major tax cuts were spread across countries and throughout the observation period but were particularly clustered in the late 1980s.
    It states: “Our results show that…major tax cuts for the rich increase the top 1% share of pre-tax national income in the years following the reform. The magnitude of the effect is sizeable; on average, each major reform leads to a rise in top 1% share of pre-tax national income of 0.8 percentage points. The results also show that economic performance, as measured by real GDP per capita and the unemployment rate, is not significantly affected by major tax cuts for the rich. The estimated effects for these variables are statistically indistinguishable from zero.”
    It continues: “Our findings on the effects of growth and unemployment provide evidence against supply side theories that suggest lower taxes on the rich will induce labour supply responses from high-income individuals (more hours of work, more effort etc.) that boost economic activity. They are, in fact, more in line with recent empirical research showing that income tax holidays and windfall gains do not lead individuals to significantly alter the amount they work.”
    The authors conclude: “Our results have important implications for current debates around the economic consequences of taxing the rich, as they provide causal evidence that supports the growing pool of evidence from correlational studies that cutting taxes on the rich increases top income shares, but has little effect on economic performance.”
    : “Our research shows that the economic case for keeping taxes on the rich low is weak. Major tax cuts for the rich since the 1980s have increased income inequality, with all the problems that brings, without any offsetting gains in economic performance.”
    https://www.lse.ac.uk/News/Latest-ne...s-for-the-rich

    http://eprints.lse.ac.uk/107919/1/Ho..._published.pdf

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  3. #3
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    in other news water is wet
    Americans are highly indoctrinated to say and think otherwise.

  4. #4
    Believe.
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    Americans are highly indoctrinated to say and think otherwise.
    I’m aware. The biggest con ever pulled in this country was to scare the stupids into blaming oppressed black peoples and brown peoples for all their problems, and not the people that actually have the power.

  5. #5
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    HBS study: the US failed, during the longest economic expansion on record, to invest in public goods, reform structural weaknesses or make the US more compe ive. Also, the two major political parties left the people behind.

    https://www.hbs.edu/compe iveness/...squandered.pdf

  6. #6
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    The day the bulk of Murica learns to hold onto their monies, economize and stop keeping up with the Joneses is the day Murica is truly ready for this conversation.

    Can't completely fault the rich when the overwhelming majority of Muricans can't stop giving them their monies.

    I don't know why people think "Taxing the rich" will solve problems when the rich find so many loopholes to avoid paying taxes. Apple, anyone? Paid nothing during the Obama Admin, so it doesn't really what side is in control, there is always a way for those with Power.

    It's not popular this day and age, especially with the blame-shift culture, but accountability is part of the equation. The rich will continue to get richer because we can't stop giving them our monies. It's a cycle we know exists and we don't want to do anything about it because we love having stuff.

  7. #7
    Kang Trill Clinton's Avatar
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    The day the bulk of Murica learns to hold onto their monies, economize and stop keeping up with the Joneses is the day Murica is truly ready for this conversation.

    Can't completely fault the rich when the overwhelming majority of Muricans can't stop giving them their monies.

    I don't know why people think "Taxing the rich" will solve problems when the rich find so many loopholes to avoid paying taxes. Apple, anyone? Paid nothing during the Obama Admin, so it doesn't really what side is in control, there is always a way for those with Power.

    It's not popular this day and age, especially with the blame-shift culture, but accountability is part of the equation. The rich will continue to get richer because we can't stop giving them our monies. It's a cycle we know exists and we don't want to do anything about it because we love having stuff.
    the bulk of america is broke and its not because they try to keep up with the joneses. their credit is shot so they can't buy luxury items or fancy houses. people are just broke and working multiple jobs living paycheck to paycheck just to makes ends meet. rent and mortages are going up and wages are stagnant.

  8. #8
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    the bulk of america is broke and its not because they try to keep up with the joneses. their credit is shot so they can't buy luxury items or fancy houses. people are just broke and working multiple jobs living paycheck to paycheck just to makes ends meet. rent and mortages are going up and wages are stagnant.
    Owners have been screwing US workers for 60 years.



    Profitability vs compensation got much worse in the last 20 years:


  9. #9
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    the bulk of america is broke and its not because they try to keep up with the joneses. their credit is shot so they can't buy luxury items or fancy houses. people are just broke and working multiple jobs living paycheck to paycheck just to makes ends meet. rent and mortages are going up and wages are stagnant.
    The bulk of Murica, which is struggling as we all know, has made industry leaders almost exclusively luxury brands. Movies are breaking box office records year over year. The rich get richer because broke people give them money.

    I'm not arguing wages aren't stagnant, but you're saying people aren't spending, which is only true to a few during this pandemic. But, during the last decade as wages stagnated, spending didn't. There's no correlation to what your stance is.

  10. #10
    Veteran vy65's Avatar
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    I don't subscribe to the notion that billionaires shouldn't exist, but I can't fathom someone like Bill Gates or Elon Musk having in excess of $100 bn. Any system that produces outliers who have more wealth than Panama's GDP is clearly broken.

  11. #11
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    billionaires do not work millions of times harder than you do, they just have more employees to steal from, and more money that makes money while they sleep.


  12. #12
    6X ST MVP Spurtacular's Avatar
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    The people pushing socialism the hardest are the ones with the most money and power. That computes, amirite?

  13. #13
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    The people pushing socialism the hardest are the ones with the most money and power. That computes, amirite?
    who are you talking about? you sure ain't talking about me.

  14. #14
    Believe.
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    The people pushing socialism the hardest are the ones with the most money and power. That computes, amirite?
    Despite the fact that taxes for rich people and big corporations have pretty much never been so low, a vast majority of americans are now closer to poverty, what a success for capitalism. What's the next step, 0% tax bracket for the rich? Promise, it'll work this time.

  15. #15
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    HBS study: the US failed, during the longest economic expansion on record, to invest in public goods, reform structural weaknesses or make the US more compe ive. Also, the two major political parties left the people behind.

    https://www.hbs.edu/compe iveness/...squandered.pdf
    Exactly what you get when the Capitalist oligarchy owns and operates govt, both parties, EXCLUSIVELY for its own enabling/enrichment rather than the govt working For The People. Been going on since the VRWC and BigCorp got organzied in the early '70s.

    After 45 years, mission accomplished, there's no going back.

    Even if the Dems take both GA seats, watch the Dems do all to repair the Repug catastrophe, and esp watch the Dems not investigate Trash and his mafiya which will signal to the next Repug Congress and WH to terminate democracy, with approval from 6-3 authoritarian SCOTUS.

  16. #16
    若いパイパン大好き baseline bum's Avatar
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    I’m aware. The biggest con ever pulled in this country was to scare the stupids into blaming oppressed black peoples and brown peoples for all their problems, and not the people that actually have the power.
    Tried and true method of controlling the people though, has worked great for 400 years now.

  17. #17
    The Boognish FuzzyLumpkins's Avatar
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    Tried and true method of controlling the people though, has worked great for 400 years now.
    Emperor Augustus blamed the Illyrians and the Slavic tribes to the East for all of Rome's ills. He conquered the territory and enslaved the people to eclipse the name of his uncle.

  18. #18
    4-25-20 Will Hunting's Avatar
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    The people pushing socialism the hardest are the ones with the most money and power. That computes, amirite?
    Which of those people are pushing socialism? Be specific.

  19. #19
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    I suspect he is referring to the George Soros boogyman.

  20. #20
    Veteran Xevious's Avatar
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    The bulk of Murica, which is struggling as we all know, has made industry leaders almost exclusively luxury brands. Movies are breaking box office records year over year. The rich get richer because broke people give them money.

    I'm not arguing wages aren't stagnant, but you're saying people aren't spending, which is only true to a few during this pandemic. But, during the last decade as wages stagnated, spending didn't. There's no correlation to what your stance is.
    Yeah, Bezos isn't increasing his wealth during the pandemic because people are hunkering down and spending money only on the absolute essentials. No, people are spending as much as they ever have, they're just doing it different ways.

  21. #21
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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  22. #22
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    cant believe everybody forgot about those decades of socialism here

  23. #23
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    I don't subscribe to the notion that billionaires shouldn't exist, but I can't fathom someone like Bill Gates or Elon Musk having in excess of $100 bn. Any system that produces outliers who have more wealth than Panama's GDP is clearly broken.
    I think a system that allows an individual to gain and keep wealth, if given enough iterations, should produce some outliers.

    While many American companies are still fighting with 1050's level thinking, people like Bezos and Musk invested in the future and those older companies with outdated management philosophy and infrastructure are paying the prices and extended those costs to their workers.

    By the "owners are taking advantage of.." comment above yours, the lesson is to be an owner. We aren't born into our roles.

    If we took our networth to work ratio and compared it to some others, we'd find that we also do little work compared to them, and get a lot more for it than they get. Once you get to the 50m level, I doubt your standard of living changes much afterward.
    Last edited by DMC; 12-28-2020 at 06:45 PM.

  24. #24
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    Yeah, Bezos isn't increasing his wealth during the pandemic because people are hunkering down and spending money only on the absolute essentials. No, people are spending as much as they ever have, they're just doing it different ways.
    Stock price is a lot of it.

  25. #25
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    Emperor Augustus blamed the Illyrians and the Slavic tribes to the East for all of Rome's ills. He conquered the territory and enslaved the people to eclipse the name of his uncle.
    I was wondering how that played out. Thanks for the update.

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